Even the best in the business, guys like Darren Dreger and Bob McKenzie, have been left scratching their heads at times wondering what the end game is in this process. That’s what makes this lockout so ridiculous. Nobody knows how it’s going to end or why such a ferocious battle is being fought.
With that in mind, I have been provided information along the way that gives you a sense of what is happening behind the scenes, and how the respective parties “think” (or thought) this process will play out. In some instances, you can see just how wrong they were.
From the beginning, a key contact and quality source suggested that the NHL would be back in action by mid-November. The thinking there was that games would have to be canceled, but ultimately cooler heads would prevail and we could start the season a month later than usual. Considering the fact that we are smack dab in the middle of November, and no meetings are scheduled, I think we can rule this one out.
From a contact on the NHLPA side of things, I get the sense they may have underestimated the hard-line stance of the owners a little bit. Apparently some within the Union, as recently as a month ago, felt as though it was only a matter of time before the owners felt the pinch from key sponsors and were forced to significantly back off their demands. Essentially there were people within the union that felt like this was a battle they could win.
Considering where things currently stand, I certainly can’t imagine a scenario where the NHLPA wins.
From connections with links to key league sponsors, the thinking was hockey would be back in December. The first couple months of the season would be wiped out but ultimately an agreement would be reached and a shortened season would get underway. Not ideal, but better than losing a full season.
We can’t rule this one out yet but obviously, time is running out.
What the above shows you is that on all sides of this process, we are entering uncharted waters. While those directly involved realized that losing an entire season was a possibility, I don’t think anyone honestly believed it would come to this.
According to a tweet from Chris Botta, the next move is to cancel games up until December 15th and a full season cancelation would not be far behind.
The clock is ticking on the 2012/2013 campaign and fans across the league are losing patience. Some may argue that the damage is already done but losing an entire season would place this ridiculousness on another level.
Here’s hoping it doesn’t come to that.
the fact that the league has grown so much since the last lockout and the majority of teams are still losing money is a sign that he doesnt know what he's doing
the fact that HIS very own deal is the reason for the above AND the reason we are now losing a second season should be the nail in the coffin
Get rid of this joke, he cares about his ego more than he cares about sense.. gauranteed the PA's initial proposal would have created a healthier league than the one the NHL is pushing.
I just dont know what the owners see in a guy who cant even start the season on time
while the stupidy of all this is baffling to everyday fans, it is clear that the Owners have made their best offer, and have now made arrangements with sponsors to cancel the season. ( which was preicted by amny of us )
In the end, when individual players are making more than most of the NHL teams, we have an issue.
Yes the debate will go on, on who is to blame, but the rich can go after, and pay the salaries, while the poor cannot afford to open their doors.
In the end we will lose a season, and now the clear question for me is who will be the ones who stand to lose the most from a cancelled season.
While the easy answer is both sides, the reality is the Owners will go on making money and business as usual on their primary focus, the businees that made them money in the first place, not the one that has been losing them money.
The top 20% of the NHL players will no doubt miss the year, and have plenty to fall back on from previous money made, enorsments ie Sidney Crosby. So I really could not care less about what his thoughts are on the dispute b/c he may miss a season, but he will undoubtedly be none the worse off when his career continues, and will have more than enough money than he will ever need.
Who I am concerned about, and want to hear from, are the Condra's, the Winchesters, the Daugovins, the Regin's who have not earned enough yet, and whose careers will not be as long or profitable as those 20%.
That other 50% of the NHL players had better wake up, and make a voice for yourselves, because you, and those other workers whose livlihood depend on the NHL, are the real ones who will suffer, and are paying in real dollars, for Fehr and his group of 20% and their stubborness.
For the love of the game, and your futures, please make yourselves heard now, b/c in a year or 2 you will all be like a Josh Langfeld... who you ask? that is my point!
Here in lies the difficulty. Several people lump the owners into one category when saying, the owners created the problem deal with it... challenge is it was a few owners/gm's that caused the circumvention of the cap and they have no loyalty to each other.
Regardless of previous contracts and how they got there, reality is for business to continue changes are required. Players need to decide what changes to contracts they are absolutely adament about and it cant be all of the them.
Monetarily, they are so close that the rest should fall immediately. What's the point in fighting back loaded contracts exactly? they are ridiculous!
As I keep telling my friend, must be really hard to go do the groceries with a million dollar salary. Even if it's $400,000 after taxes, that milk still costs $2.79, bread still costs a buck or two and so on. Prices don't go up at stores simply because a minute amount of people make a ton of money. So...these athletes have MORE than enough money to buy food and shelter and maybe even square some away and they are suffering?
Please.
We WILL lose the season and if "we" need to we will lose the 2013-2014 as well. The players MUST understand they will lose. The players can NEVER win. A 50/50 split will happen and the players will give in. Not this year perhaps but maybe next year or the year after.
The owners hold the keys to the arenas, the arenas aren't getting unlocked until the players sign on the dotted line.
It's up to them if it's this year, next year or five or ten years from now.
Look at what happened in the NFL. When the replacement refs were getting exposed as a joke, the league stepped in and a deal was ratified overnight.
"square some away " ?
in 4 years Winchester made 2,600,000 gross,
almost 1/2 is taxed taking that to about 1.5 mil,
about 15% goes to agent and Union so now we are talking about 1.2 Mil, net.
So if you think that a 25 year old who is accustomed to a 50K paycheque every month, and accumulated bills for this lifestyle can go through the rest of their lives with a normal pay and normal job, I think your mistaken.
And to this point, players like him should be the ones that are most concerne, b/c I am 100% certain, he would rather go back to playing hockey, than be joining the rank an file working 9-5 making a fraction of that amount.
Those players had better speak up now while they have a fighting chance, or let younger cheaper talent walk in and take it away from them,
that 25% of the NHL are the ones who will be paying the most for this year long strike
That is my point.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20265/the-damage-this-time-will-be-permanent
The last lost season was to get the salary cap. We all knew the league could not survive without it considering about 73% of league revenue was going to players salary prior to the Cap.
The NHL got the salary cap.. the PA got everything else.. shorter UFA, etc.
The PA brought in Fehr to "WIN" this CBA. Fehr doesn't know hockey. Doesn't care about hockey. Doesn't care about the damage that will be done to the league... he is here to "win". A player agent said.. his end date is Dec 2013.
I don't support either side in this. BUT the players should be entitled to get their full salary from the contracts they signed. The NHL came with 'make whole' to do that -- but I believe not in yr 1.. probably because of a shortened season. The NHL also increased it's revenue sharing. So why can't the PA negotiate off of that.
I also don't understand why contracts have to be limited to 5 years either. If they put a variance in the contracts of 5% or whatever it is.. that would eliminate the front-end loaded deals. (which by the way some players will be losing out on the big bucks with no season this year) Contracts could be for any term they wanted.
Some fans are extremely angry (like me)... but there are others that just don't care. That's what the Owners and the players should fear the most... fans that just don't care.
We have heard Molson Coors is going to demand compensation from the NHL for lost revenue due to the lockout... are other sponsors going to do that?
This won't end good for anybody.. and I can't believe both sides are that stubborn or that stupid to lose a season.
With more & more players still heading to Europe.. makes me think the PA will not budge. They are forcing the NHL to cancel the season..
Worrying about the marginal 4th liners who will barely have an NHL career in the first place is ridiculous. I don't watch the NHL for the Winchesters of the world and he was 50-50 to not even be in the NHL this season anyways. If Winchester can't stand by his brothers in their fight for the future of their union and the players to come into the NHL, he can take his talents where they belong ... in a tier 2 European div.
Actually he is playing in Europe right now. I had no idea he went over.. guess it wasn't big news...
I am clearly not making my point... I too dont care about the 4th liners of the NHL, but there will always be 4th liners... No?
My point is that 20% of the NHL players can easily sit out 1, 2, 3 years, and still be fine. The owners will go back to work on the businesses that made them their billions.
But the ones who will ultimately pay dearly will be the 3rd and 4th liners!
THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD SPEAK OUT.
Their livelihoods will be changed forever.
I'm going to have to disagree with this post.. if the numbers you're giving are correct, I don't think winchester or any other player with similar income has gone out and bought 10million dollar houses or million dollar cars.
The fact is these players pay people to manage their money, and if he's only made a million and a half total, he likely doesn't have ANY significant bills to pay and probably has good amount of savings
The guys with low end contracts and fewer years in the league probably have less monetary worries not more
Mo money mo problems
Players do not NEED to buy 100K vehicles they use 4 months out of the year. They do not NEED 3K sq. ft. homes for their wife and 2-3 kids. they do not NEED to live luxurious. Lots of average Canadians live comfortably on much less
It's interesting that you now post more often than your "hero"
Want to take a guess at how much money Phillips has thrown out the window on investments over his career? He got screwed by the same guy that Heatley got screwed by and has had a few businesses fold. Investments only work if the person advising you is A) good and B) right
Most players spend their first paycheck on something exorbitant like a new car etc. some are smart with their money and squirrel it away but a lot of them think they will have long careers, mistakenly thinking the gravy train will last forever. Most young players have stacks of cash lying around and have no concept of reality.
Human nature is to spend what you make.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlxGYtGXBgA
Get over it
Do they drop negotiations if the season is cancelled and wait for next season to be a bargaining chip like they did this year.
Pathetic
I hope the owners and players lose a shit pile of money over this crap.
One more year of development for Bingo players, glad at least for that.
FU NHL and NHLPA
Asimov made you say this.
Yeah...that sounds like a good idea. I'm actually being serious. I don't think that people were expecting this to be resolved this week or next week anyways.
Step away from it, come back with cooler heads (and hopefully some common sense).
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409424
So with the expectation that the year is gone, who would you re-sign from this list of Ottawa UFAs.
F: Alfredsson, Latendresse, Regin, Daugavins (RFA), Condra (RFA), Da Costa (RFA), Hoffman (RFA)
D: Gonchar, Lundin (RFA), Wiercioch (RFA), Borowiecki (RFA), Benoit
G: Bishop
There are others but these are the ones I feel that have the potential to play in the NHL in 2013/14.
Personally I would let all the UFAs walk and look to the free agency market to replace them.
On the restricted front, I would like to keep WireCock, Borowiecki and Hoffman for sure and I would think long and hard about Da Costa and Condra but wouldn't cry about them moving on.
If the season is lost I think we see a significantly different Ottawa Senators for 2013/14.
We will be moving into a season where there is a potentially huge free agent pool and with a lot of cap space available.
Latendresse, Regin, Daug, Costa, Gonch, Lundin (various levels of skills, but very replaceable).
Condra, Hoffman, Wier, Borow, Benoit, Bishop you sign. they are young, they have potential and trade value. You don't let them walk away for nothing (I debated about Condra and Benoit, but depth is good).
teams in cities not controlled by the NHL ?
Brooklyn - Quebec - Hamilton - Atlanta - Seattle - San Diego - Cincinnatti - Cleveland - Kansas City ?
AND the European Division that the WHA originally planned ?
Is Gary Davidson still alive ?
I CAN say that I don't give a crap about there potential financial issues due to the lockout, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners, it makes no difference. The simple fact is, I have my own financials to take care of, just like everyone else.
If a player was silly enough to invest poorly or trust the wrong people with those decisions, it's a lesson learned. If they spent all there money on a big house and lots of cars and now cannot pay the insurances and everything else that goes with it... well that's something they should have thought about. You hear these stories of jackpot winners who do the same thing and then complain when they go bankrupt, do we get involved this deep in their lives?
I just think we as passionate fans are WAY to involved in the owners and players financial concerns and it's time to close that book and focus on something else.
Best song ever? Top 3 with Cotton Eye Joe, and of course, a Day in the Life by the Beatles (a 3 way tie?!?).
BAAAAA !
Best song ever is DUKE OF EARL
Agreed, but the only ones who really have a chance at saving this season is the bottome half earners in the NHLPA.
Those are the ones that stand to lose the most, including their jobs. So again instead of hearing what Crosby, or Malkin or any of the top players have to say, I am suggesting that we hear what the bottom half of the players have to say.
Interesting to hear the hindsight of some of those players ara ALL saying now that they are out of the game and in retirement
Jason York,
Sean Simpson
Shean Donavan
Mark Recchi
Shawn Van Allen
All of them say they wish they could take back the time they lost, and all say he players should agree and play.
With all due respect to all of you, their opinion means way more than any of ours.
The owners and players clearly don't care about making concessions to appease one another let alone the fans. After all , it is the fans who who pay for player salaries, arena rentals, merchandise, overpriced parking, food, etc yet I see neither side willing to bend on their positions for the benefit of the game.
It is time for the fans to start boycotting the NHL/NHLPA. We have been spending our hard earned money and time supporting a game that clearly does not care about its fans. Once the NHL/NHLPA recognize that fan support is dwindling then maybe we'll see some progress towards a resolution. Problem is though, will there be any fans left waiting around after this lockout? I sure as hell hope not. We're stupid to be supporting either side right now, stupid to be talking about the lockout, and stupid for even caring at this point.
Once the NHL/NHLPA start discussing 'Make Whole' deals to reimburse fans for continually supporting them financially then maybe I'll start to support the league again. Thousands have lost their jobs because of the lockout, thousands of Canadian fans have lost support of the game, and the American market has already forgot that a league once existed.
Congratulations NHL/NHLPA. You have officially branded your product with the likes of Chinese toy manufacturers, BP Oil, and Enron. I hope you avid Senschirp supporters undertstand that even discussing the lockout at this point encourages the NHL/NHLPA to continue sitting on their hands and doing nothing to resolve their issues. What's happening given our economic climate is sickening.
It's time for the NHL/NHLPA to start listening to the fans say nothing at all about the league they once loved. Maybe they'll hear that fans speak louder than their greed. Meh, I doubt it.
It would wake up both the players, the owners, and best of all give the fans a choice of product, forcing these spoiled brats back to getting a deal done.
I agree to that, my statement was geared more towards being tired of listening to the money talk, lol.
Amen to that brother!
no wonder the old school boys are bitter, they played for the love of the game only!
Bring on the WHA!
Game synopsis to follow pending hand eye coordination! :)
Cam Stewart and his 2 collegues just did the most honest and best breakdown of the current lockout situation
basically "shut up, we don't care about youre quotes, get back to negotiations"
this is something we would never see on TSN or Sportsnet, those networks are too busy speculating and never actually offer their personal 'as a fan' opinion Or call out the league/PA
it was refreshing to see someone on TV actually say what we're all thinking
HMMMM
Assuming that each new WHA could afford one or 2 big names I'd head down to Southern Ontario to see the Hamilton Crosbys play the Stockholm Karlsons or the Moscow Ovechkins
My working assumption was that Alfie would retire. Bishop I don't think will want to sign because he's going to be 3rd on our depth charts in six months time.
I like Benoit and I think with Gonchar going he could be valuable, but I wouldn't sign him based on youth - mainly because he isn't young.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=1
It does make sense, the only problem: this is a card the League should have played a long time ago. It took them too long to see what Fehr was doing, and putting a 2 week hiatus on talks now really looks bad for Bettman. Its an extremely transparent move and if fans were on the cusp, they should be downright furious now.
A 2 week break from negotiations on day 60 something?
Im insulted
BOOYAH
Fans and players routinely claim the season is too long and ultimately should result in longer careers for the elite players given they'll be playing less.
I'm sure this would never fly but as a fan, I could handle a shortened season and potentially a better product.
http://www.usagoals.com/live/259654-adirondack-phantoms-vs-binghamton-senators/watch/stream/online/free/feed/p2p/en/vivo/tv/gratis/
Claesson was drafted mainly as a stay at home defenceman, who can contribute occasionally offensively. Last year he had 7 points in 41 games for Djurgarden which was 3rd amongst defenceman in within the team. Late into the WJC tournament last year, he also started playing heavier minutes because of defensive capabilities was finally recognized by the coach.
So far right now with the B-Sens he has been quitely effective defencemen, who has not made any glaring mistakes yet, and has slowly racked up some assists without us noticing, which is always a good thing.
Heck he was part of the brawl today; nothing is more fun than watching a European rookie getting involved in hockey brawls.
On a side note Puempel scored again today, he is currently second in the league in goals scored.
Grady Whittenburg the play-by-play guy is SUPERB !
Cowick first star imo. really played how I envisioned he would over the last couple years. Kind of a Zach Smith light. ZIBBY FIRST GOAL and it was a grinder! Awesome hustle! Honorable mention to Wideman. really stepping it up and taking advantage of the ice time with Cowen/Gryba sidelined.
Props also to Jessiman to keeping Rinaldo in check as the game wound down.
Is he injured again?
Players should learn to shut the hell up...they embarass them selves and hockey players as a whole when they speak publicly about this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu12ap98oJQ
Healthy scratch on his 20th birthday...
"What exactly is Donald Fehr's agenda? It's not to get the players as much money as possible, because if it was, there would have been an agreement already. $300mil in lost wages and counting. If we go an entire season, players will lose $1.8bil or so from the NHL.
If money is not Fehr's agenda, what is? Is he trying to prove a point? He's trying to show the NHLPA can't be pushed around. That's all well and good, but principles don't pay the bills as well as money does. There will come a point where the majority of players will be suffering financially, and should that happen, Donald Fehr might find himself suddenly unemployed. From my observation, players are blindly following Fehr's lead.
One little trick Fehr is using is that he's rotating players who are involved in the negotiation process. Apparently he brings different players into different meetings, so that way, no one directly involved has attended all the meetings since the beginning. Using this technique is a way to keep control of the NHLPA in the hands of the lawyers, not the players. Even the most involved players only have some of the information.
Fehr's strategy here, and this is a well-known, is that he's counting on the owners to begin battling with each other. That's "Plan A": To break ownership. If that happens, the NHLPA wins. Problem is, it won't happen, as the owners have infinitely more money than the players do. There is very little motivation for ownership to sign a deal, and from this point, the offers from ownership will begin to go down in quality. The players have done it to themselves. They went all in with a pair of twos.
So what does Fehr do if ownership doesn't break? See the problem: There's no "Plan B". As time continues to expire, so does any negotiating leverage the players had.
LMAO
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151984799026494.452441.252012226493&type=3
Near the bottom - Grady in the stands calling the game ?
at 7 against the Amercks
Niccee
Still I'm not expecting anything.
I was thinking the same thing about Grant... That short-handed goal was a beaut.
If this lockout loses another season... and many NHL teams having good young prospects in the AHL... if I'm a 3rd or 4th line NHLer with an expiring contract I would be very worried.
Apologies for not staying on top of the Bingo games. Have been busy trying to sort out the most recent server transfer and other site issues. Will be back on track early next week.
In terms of existing contracts, I think the players are digging their heels in this time because the star players signed to long front-loaded contracts know that if they take a roll back they will never get that money back because the length of their existing contracts basically guarantees that many of these players will retire before they expire. Even if HRR doubles these players will not see any of this money because they are locked into long-term contracts. Is it any coincidence that players being most vocal about existing contracts are the ones that have these huge deals with significant term? Don't tell me you are making a stand based on principle and for future players.
Friday:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8EviT8yIu0&list=UUPp9ef0TTrRF_gHwTcUmQoA&index=6&feature=plcp
Saturday:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0v2Z314Vw&list=UUPp9ef0TTrRF_gHwTcUmQoA&index=1&feature=plcp
They have scheduled a Monday meeting in New York, without Bettman and Donald Fehr.
If this meeting moves the process forward, let these 2 guys continue, till they agree to agree on all issues, and have Bettman and Donald Fehr both sign off on the CBA !!
Now, this would be the greatest achievement, after more than 2 months of total frustration !!
GO SENS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
F
Agreed re: Bettman & Donald Fehr... Things move faster without them in attendance.
It sucks about Cowen... I would think one of the B-Sens D can adequately fill the spot of the departed Carkner in way of play.. but to fill Cowen's shoes -- I don't think there is anyone in the system right now that comes close. I don't think a trade is out there to bring in that D.. so I guess they will have to do the best they can IF, that is, there is an NHL season.
Off to see Noeson this afternoon... I hope the 67's can at least keep it close...
He was a scratch.. must have got injured last night... I was really disappointed.. Pretty good crowd today at SBP.
The 67's played a good game today. They should have got a better fate. That penalty shot given to Plymouth in the 1st period just after the 67's scored was crap.. it should have been just a penalty.. not a penalty shot. But it is as it is...
I like your thinking Nadislav, AGREED