Early this afternoon, details leaked about a couple proposals that were tabled by the NHLPA at yesterday's session.
Those proposals offered a 50/50 split by year three of the CBA. The offer was apparently not all that well received by the owners but the league did think enough of them to counter this afternoon.
While there are still issues that the two sides need to work out, the commitment to negotiating is a great sign. The so called experts continue to talk about American Thanksgiving weekend as a potential start date.
You'll continue to hear negativity from some media types until a deal is reached but the reality is the two sides have finally reached the negotiating stage of this negotiation. Ridiculous that it took this long but the events of the past few days lead me to believe that a resolution to this senseless lockout is finally within reach.
Hang in there.
- Had a chance to watch the Binghamton Senators 1-0 loss to the Wilkes Barre Scranton Penguins last night and it obviously wasn't pretty for Richardson's squad. The offence continues to struggle and if not for the outstanding play of Robin Lehner, this team could be in real trouble. No reason to panic just yet though. The BSens line up is one of the youngest in the AHL and a number of the team's forwards will need some time to adjust. Binghamton's next game comes on Saturday when they host the Norfolk Admirals.
- For those that are interested, Ottawa 67's star and Sens first round draft picks Cody Ceci and Matt Puempel are suiting up for the OHL team in the Subway Super Series game later tonight. You can catch that game on Sportsnet starting at 7:00 PM.
I hope this gets resolved soon, although I won't hold my breath until the first game happens.
Puemple looks horrible out there. Super slow and very lackadaisical.. Not encouraging to see. Ceci looks alright but these guys are running 4 lines so not on the ice very often.
Monahan and Graovac connecting on the 1st and only goal.
The entire team actually looks horrible there, not just puempel. Also it's worth to note that ironically puempel is playing third line duties, with worthless players. For example he is being centered by scott laughton, a flyers first round pick in the 2012 draft, who racked up 101pim last year, and was below a point per game.
If anything get's done by both the sides, and the season somehow does take place... just a general question..how many of you will have hockey tainted with greed in your minds from now on..and will it affect how you view the athletes from now on...or even the sport ( which really is actually independent from all of this) ?...
It's a great sign that during this first week of November the NHL and NHLPA are meeting today for the fourth day in a row. Clearly both sides are serious about saving the season now that all the posturing and bullshit is over.
unfortunatley the last lockout and players like Heatley and Kovalev, and many others, have opened my eyes wide to the reality that NHL Hockey, is first, and foremost a business to both the owners and he players.
I truly bleed hockey and will always love the sport, but the innocence of playing just for a team, a love of a city, and the will to pay any price to win the Stanley Cup, has been torn out or me, and the harsh reality that after a loss, or exit from the playoffs, I will feel more sorrow for my team, than a third line player, taking his shower after elimination, getting into his $1000 dollar suit, brushing through thousands of fans, to get into his Farrari to drive to his 8000 sq ft mansion, to call his travel agent to book his boat and vacaion in Monaco. The truth is that loss will pale in comparison to the lavish lifestyle they have now come to expect...
Sorry but that is what all this business has done to this hard core devoted fan,
But having said all of that my love for the Sens is stronger than my distaste for all of these spoiled brats (both sides!)
BTW did anyone hear that rant by Roy McGregor? It is priceless and if he does this rant at the HOF ceremonies it will go down as one of the best speeches ever...
and I quote him
"even kindergarten students can figure out how to split a popcycle before it melts"
Praise McGregor
LMAO
Yes they make a ton of money but they worked extremely hard and dedicated their lives to becoming the very best at something. If you're in the NHL, youre in a group of about 700 players that are the best of tens of millions of players who play hockey. If you're that good at something (no matter what it is, even if it's a game) you deserve to be paid very well.
And when you Miguel are saying a third line player is is going home in his Ferrari and sleeping in a 8000sq/ft mansion you're completely wrong. A third line player makes at the very most 2-3 million. And that's usually only for a couple years. Before that contract they were making less than a million and after that contract they also makes less than a million or are forced to retire.
While a million dollar salary is very good money. It is not even close to being enough to living this Ferrari and mansion lifestyle unless you spend literally 100% of you're salary on you're house and car. Like seriously give youre head a shake.
Most players are just living in nice houses in regular suburbia and driving at best bmw's. While yes that's not a bad way to live, it's very far from driving ferraris and going to Monaco in a yacht. You have to be tiger woods rich to do that.
Only the very top earners inthe league make enough money for ferraris and what not. Only 1 or 2 players per team have a long term contract making over 6 or so million. Even they don't go to monaco on a yacht.
If you're making 1million dollars a year. That amounts to 100k a year and 1 million if you're making 10million like Kovalchuk. That's an insane amount of money just to give away.
I don't care how rich you are, you don't just give away a million dollars a year for the duration of your contract. Nobody, absolutely nobody would agree with that....even fucking Donald Trump!
10% of any salary is a ton of money. It's a huge hit to anyone's wallet. Everyone in society gets accustomed to a certain lifestyle and plans their lives accordingly in relation to what ever they're earning. When your boss all of a sudden comes in and says I'm taking 10% of you're salary even though the business is earning more than ever...you're gonna be pissed. And in the case of the NHL this isn't the first time. A 24% cut 8 years ago and now a 10% cut is just ridiculous.
My point is I'm sick of people complaining about how much NHLers make or pro athletes in general. They are the very best at what they do and on top of that it's the entertainment business. They're gonna be paid well because they generate a lot of money. Just get over it already. Just the way life is. If you want more money get better at what you do or change fields and getter better at that
Again this goes for both owners and players,
2-3 million over 5 years, to play the best game in the world, and travel in comfort all over, to see some of the best cities in Canada and US, or live in the real world, working 9-5? which would you say is priveleged?
and your telling me to give my head a shake???
Sorry I disagree
It's not as though the concept of a roll back just came out of nowhere. They've been talking about this dor quite some time and I can guarantee you these players agents discussed it with them upon signing. Why do you think they demanded money upfront as a signing bonus.
How much is 50% of 0 anyways out of curiosity?
Nhlpa has shown 0 movement through the negotiation which is not how a negotiation works...
You give / I give we settle on what we can both live with. I can assure you there are tons of players that would sign a deal today to get money flowing again. These guys aren't financial wizards and lots of them are overcommitted based on 0 income.
Players need to show some good faith and save some face...
I don't think miguel was trying to state to what extent how leisurely these players live. In my opinion, atleast, I felt he was saying that we really won't know whether they're playing for the love of the game and the city or is just something that makes them money , regardless of winning or losing. .....Again this wouldn't apply to all athletes .
How much is 50% of 0 anyways out of curiosity?
Nhlpa has shown 0 movement through the negotiation which is not how a negotiation works...
You give / I give we settle on what we can both live with. I can assure you there are tons of players that would sign a deal today to get money flowing again. These guys aren't financial wizards and lots of them are overcommitted based on 0 income.
Players need to show some good faith and save some face...
Actually the players have moved a lot. Waayyy more than the league. They are willing to go from 57% to 50%. That's called movement.
The NHL not only expects the hrr split to go down but all the other contractual rules being taken away from the players.
The NHL hasn't given a single thing. All they've been doing is expecting the PA to to give
It's sad that the league has been able to convince the fans like yourself into believing that they're the good guys
The PA are the only ones who've show they are willing to give something up
there are many NHLers that share the Heatley mentality, only most are more humble, and not as foolish or arrogant to go around bragging about it, IMO
to most of them it's a job and has been since they devoted themselves to it as a teenager. do they love the life it affords them ? yes. do they love being in the room with the guys ? sure
but make no mistake about it, most of them love their job about as much as you do.
agreed, but i am sure they love their jobs a lot more than most of the population.
what percentage of people do you think would gladly trade jobs with an NHL player? I will go out on a limb and say very close to 99%, and yes I do like my job.
Guys seriously give it up. You can't compare their jobs to ours, just like you can't compare an actor, a politician, an owner or any of those types to the average fans job. Players work extremely hard to get to where they are, put a lot more of their health on the line and agree on market value compensation and then move forward expecting that contract to be honored. It's simple business. If you think the players should take a rollback, then you should also believe any player who is not ok with their new salary amount should be allowed to become a ufa and renegotiate. But the owners want to take even more rights away from the players, let alone not even contemplating this makeup scenario.
Both sides suck, the owners created the bed they're laying in and in the end are the greediest out of anyone in this whole equation. But too many fans are jealous and think they could've made the nhl if they had tried ... which obviously is not the case. While fans were all out drinking and partying and going to University most of these players had curfews and couldn't take full advantage of being a teenager. They give up a lot of their lives to get to the NHL, it's only right that they can expect to be treated fairly and not lied to, bullied and manipulated once they finally get there.
Anyways, nice to see both sides at the table trying to hammer this out, let's just hope it continues and stop trying to falsely blame 1 side or the other. This is Canada, we are not a corporate country and it's sad so many are supporting greedy corporate types in this debate.
Melnyk's a great owner, but don't for a second pretend he didn't make his money by circumventing the law. And he's probably the biggest boyscout in the group.
my comments have everything to do with have watched the NHL for over 30 years, and having seen players play 30 years ago, not playing only for their own personal stats, but for the love of the game, a city, a team, and for the thrill of winning the Stanley cup.
I still remember watching grown men cry, with battered faces when they were eliminated, and as fans you could actually relate to their sorrow, and the were just like you and I, and no they were not an Actor, or President, they were Bob Gainey the neighbour who lives in a simalar house and drives a similar car, playing road hockey with a bunch of kids on the street.
That, to me, is what has been lost in these two lockouts, Way too much money, and yes it is more about their pay, than it is about winning and losing, and in many games where I have shelled out over $300, it is clear many do not play for the love of the game, and tney do not care about winning or losing... IMO
Player should just shut up and and see what there worth on the market if your worth 2mil then you get to 2mil. Not because in all the NHL is making more money that player that is worth 2 mil should be making 4 mil or what so over.
Owner are taking the risk and if your successful you make more money why give to the guy that's doing the same year after year not taking any risk financially
Don't say that "oh there risk he may get injured" that's part of the game you wanna make millions well play the game and shut up
Very honorable of you to stand up for the players, I hope you are comfortable with missing the entire season...the more of you that there are, the more likely it is, the season is toast!
Luckily, most fans can see the big picture and what needs to happen to get this train back on the rails.
You can't relate to someone else's position unless you've been in that position yourself. You think you could do their job? Really? You think to them it's just a game? A game is playing once a week, if that, and messing around. Listen up... These guys practice day in, day out, almost all year. Even during their "off-season". They, like the rest of you, show up for their job every single day with the chance of being fired (demoted/traded ). I absolutely hate it when people say this person or that person shouldn't be making x amount of money.
That fact is, they make the money they do, because they are the select few that are good at it. Sorry, if you think you're better? I get this all the time! I'm not going to disclose my salary or profession, but the amount of times I've heard "You get paid that much for doing that?" just baffles me. It's incredibly insulting to those who have put in their hours, training, etc to do what they love, only to have some idiots "think" they have an opinion.
Heck, as sensnation put it, these guys gave up a lot for what they had. You know, being a normal teenager, unable to go out partying, going to practice and tutor sessions. Now, they go to player meetings, meeting with fans, autograph signings, meeting with sponsors, doing media interviews, probably more I can't even be bothered to think of... I just love how so many people here make it seem so easy to be a professional athlete. It's definitely a different kind of stress than the average person is used to.
Its the nhl whose locking the playersd out.
There's a reason serious negotiations have only started now. The nhl damn well knows they make very little money the first 2 or 3 months of the season. And when you can shorten the season by 2 months but still play most if not all the 82 games when starting dec 1st, obviously you're gonna lockout the players and try to milk as much money from them as possible.
This season was never going to start on time. And that was the owners decision. Now that they see December is coming quick, the owners are finally starting to talk about honoring the players contracts with this "make whole provision" thing.
That's why this lockout is ridiculous. This is all on the owners because like alfie said its all going according to plan for them. Chances are they will start the season Dec 1st and pplay 70-75 games and loose very little revenue while screwing the players by either getting them to take a cut or at the very least limitting their contractual rights
lol, that's just funny. You're blaming the players for an owner induced lockout, ya I'm the problem here. Players want to play even more than the owners, but they're not going to get screwed over to do it.
As much as some fans think these players don't have a choice and need to just suck it up, a good portion of them can go to European leagues if the NHL folded and make decent cash over there. The NHL is not the only league, it's just the best one, and if the owners rollback salaries so far that the KHL, SEL or whatever other league can actually pay them comparably or better, you will see some stars go that route more often ... just like we already have with some KHL players.
And the "big picture" is both sides need to give more and the owners need to act like the partnership they asked the players to be a part of the last lockout.
I've switched because this is the mess that Bettman made after the last lockout. Bettman got what he wanted, but he didn't have a clue of what was really needed. The economic model sucks as there are teams on the verge of bankruptcy, yet other teams do extraordinarily well. Bettman is a puppet and has no real foresight. If he did, we would't be in this mess.
It is clear the owner's weren't planning to play during the first two months of the year. It is only recently that they decided to throw the NHLPA some bones to chew on. First, it was 50/50. Then, it was the "make whole". Reality is that the owner's have shot themselves in the foot, and it shouldn't be up to the fans to suffer. Will I continue to support the NHL? Of course I will. I love the game, but I would love it more if Bettman was fired.
Please don't compare rollbacks for multi-million dollar players to the general public. It's not the same.
Both agree to 50-50 but disagree how to get there. Getting there in 3 yrs for the PA sounds reasonable to me.. and is it different that the Owners having to 'make whole' salaries every season -- it will still come out of Owners share of revenue? What would be the $$ difference for the Owners to get 50% of revenue but still pay "X" amount of dollars out to make whole -- rather than getting a lower percentage of revenue in year one...
After that memo from Fehr to the NHLPA was "conveniently" leaked -- I don't have a good feeling this is getting done anytime soon.
Here's a list who have signed, and there may be more:
Ondrej Pavelec (Winnipeg Jets) signed with Bili Tygri Liberec of the Czech Extraliga on Sept. 16th.
Anton Khudobin (Boston Bruins) signed with HC Atlant Moscow Oblast of the KHL on Sept. 16th.
Michal Neuvirth (Washington Capitals) signed with Sparta Praha of the Czech Extraliga on Sept. 18th.
Ilya Bryzgalov (Philadelphia Flyers) signed with CSKA of the KHL on Sept. 19th.
Sergei Bobrovsky (Columbus Blue Jackets) signed with SKA St. Petersburg of the KHL on Sept. 21st.
Tuukka Rask (Boston Bruins) signed with HC Plzen of the Czech Extraliga on Sept. 25th.
Pekka Rinne (Nashville Predators) signed with HC Dinamo Minsk of the KHL on Sept. 25th.
Semyon Varlamov (Colorado Avalanche) signed with HC Lokomotiv of the KHL on Sept. 27th.
Antti Niemi (San Jose Sharks) signed with the Pelicans of the SM-Liiga (Finland) on Oct. 5th.
Rick DiPietro (New York Islanders) signed with SC Riessersee of the ESBG (Germany) on Oct. 10th.
Jonathan Bernier (Los Angeles Kings) signed with Heilbronner Falken of the ESBG (Germany) on Oct. 10th
For those of you going to Bingo tomorrow.. enjoy.. will try to 'find' you on the stream tomorrow night..
The nhl comes out last week and says they will cover the "make whole" stuff so that player contracts can be honored while going to a 50/50 split.
Turns out that was complete BULL SHIT
Turns out they were just willing to cover 220million of the player contracts. Leaving the players to take roughly a 380million cut.
So essentially they're not willing to cover this "make whole provision" at all. Still expecting the players to take a huge pay cut. Basically meaning they're not willing to work with the PA on they're one and only major request (honoring the current contracts).
The only way the players will agree to taking such a massive cut is if the league agrees to get rid of all the other contractual limitations they want to implement. However the problem with that is everyone knows these limitations are a good thing/idea. So there's no way those are going anywhere.
The league has to understand that its one or the other. You either get the players to take a pay cut or you take away all their contract negotiating rights. One or the other, not both.
Bettman is such a bad negotiator! He came in with the first offer in Sept that everyone knew was beyond ridiculous. That just pissed the PA off. His next 2 offers were also ridiculous as he was just screwing with the fans making it look like he was trying to save the season meanwhile he knew there wasn't going to be any hockey until Dec unless he somehow got the players to accept his low ball mind boggling offers. Now everyone knows it will be a 50/50 split. The playets have straight up said they are willing to loose 7% as well as loose many contractual rights. The only thing they ask is the owners to honor the contracts they signed. But still the duchebag Bettman won't budge...probabl y because he promissed the owners over a year ago he'd get them a 10-15% salary cut along with all the other tidbits
They were never planning on playing the first 2 months of the season. Because they knew the could shorten the season time wise without cancelling many games at all. Essentially just compressing the season like the nba did last year.
What this means is the owners were fully ready to be in this position today. All the offers that were tabled by them were essentially low ball offers. If by some miracle the players were desperate or stupid enough to accept one of them Bettman would have looked like a genious.
Almost every offer they've had Bettman came out to the media saying it was the best they could do. Then Fehr came out and told the players that its all bs and then got shit from the fans because they thought he was holding up the season. What was actually happening is Bettman was discising low ball offers by making them look appealing to fans and damnass nhl players hoping they would put pressure on Fehr to accept one of them.
These plans didn't work...
Now that were starting to get into crunch time Bettman will start to feel the heat. Now we will start to see him making realistic offers (hopefully). If a deal is not done by Dec, he will be getting serious pressure from the owners. They were fine with not playing till Dec but loosing actual months where the MLB is no longer playing and NFL is winding down won't sit well with them. And if god forbid the entire season is lost...I bet Bettman gets fired because I'm sure he sold the owners on this "plan" of his and if it backfires to such a degree he would piss off the overwhelming majority of his bosses.
I don't want to see a season lost but the one thing that would make me feel better about it is seeing Bettman getting kicked to the curb
Not sure what the legalities of this type of scenario but the more I think about it, it makes sense for the owners. So I guess you can say good bye to Ovechkin, Kovolchuk etc... but really in the big picture the Russians want to play in the KHL anyways.
I'm not sure I understand where your 380M cut comes from? 220M is the difference b/w 50-57% (its been reported that each % is worth 30M in revenue) that the NHL said they would pay back in lump sum payments in years 2 and 3. players would lose that 7% immediately from their paychecks but get it all back within 3 years, plus interest.
I am not sure how I see the NHLPA not getting exactly what they have stated they want all along. go to 50/50 immediately as long as current contracts are honoured. it would appear that is what the NHL offered.
you should only be pissed at yourself..
The NHL feeds misinformation to the TSN guys so they look like the good guys.
Everybody gets excited. a week later the real information comes out and everybody gets all sad
Realize the pattern dude. Until the NHLPA confirms what the NHL/TSN says, it is false
I didn't need to read anything more than Alfredsson's quotes to know that the Make Whole provision was not actually a done deal, and that they hadn't done anything more than spin tires.
accurate
http://plymouthwhalers.com/video/index/id/63e3441f8613f92d40f20b7ce9872ec6
220 million is not the difference. The total difference is over a billion (that is from 57 to 50).
The players contracts last longer than 1 year. Think about it if they implement a 10% cut kovalchuk alone has to give back over 10million.
The guys that have these insane long term deals are the ones that get hurt the most because that 10% goes for every year. The guys that have contracts expiring in a year or two get to renegotiate a new contract and only have to take the proposed 10% cut for 1 or 2 years.
220million is what the nhl offered to guarantee to pay back to the players if they agreed to go down to 50/50 immediately. And that 220million is only for the first 2 years. And on top of that the 220million for the 2 years isn't even close to half of what the players would have to give up to get to 50/50.
So the owners are still not even close to honoring the players contracts. For the owners to fully honor the players contracts they'd have to pay 380million on top of the 220. I don't know what you're saying
That Noesen, Rickel, Wilson line is just too good for the O. 3 solid 1st round picks who play a skill power forward type game is just unfair. Awesome to watch
"Another source said the league had a problem with another section: "Moreover, at the same time we were told that the owners want an 'immediate reset' to 50/50 (which would significantly reduce the salary cap) and that their proposals to restrict crucial individual contracting rights must be agreed to."
The NHL felt that was unfair, because it has proposed the first season would be a transition year, with a cap of $70 million to allow time for compliance. Also, the league believes it has said some of the contract issues (five-year terms, for example) are negotiable. (It's my belief that, at this time, the only one of those issues the NHL considers ironclad is the maximum five per cent salary variance from year-to-year in a contract. That would eliminate the Roberto Luongo-type deals.)"
So who do you believe? NHLPA or NHL?
As for Kypreos... right...
"Another source said the league had a problem with another section: "Moreover, at the same time we were told that the owners want an 'immediate reset' to 50/50 (which would significantly reduce the salary cap) and that their proposals to restrict crucial individual contracting rights must be agreed to."
The NHL felt that was unfair, because it has proposed the first season would be a transition year, with a cap of $70 million to allow time for compliance. Also, the league believes it has said some of the contract issues (five-year terms, for example) are negotiable. (It's my belief that, at this time, the only one of those issues the NHL considers ironclad is the maximum five per cent salary variance from year-to-year in a contract. That would eliminate the Roberto Luongo-type deals.)"
So who do you believe? NHLPA or NHL?
As for Kypreos... right...
Another article by Michael Russo:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/178216921.html
can we get some bingo GDT's???!!