While the organization saw flashes of what Butler could do offensively, he was never able to contribute consistently enough to hold down a spot in the line up. He was given a regular shot on the type line with Jason Spezza last season but failed to find his offensive touch.
And while he did look solid in his three playoff appearances this past season, it wasn't enough to stick around. With the likes of Silfverberg, Stone and Zibanejad all expected to push for spots in the top six next season, the writing was on the wall for Butler.
Assuming the Sens go ahead with the buyout as expected, a cap hit of $75,000 will be on the books next season and $200,000 in the following year.
And while it didn't work out here in Ottawa, best of luck to Bobby wherever he ends up.
I agree with the part about the talent. Sometimes a player's best just isn't good enough.
This at least gives a spot for the better younger players who could do what he does much better and cheaper, look out for one of Hoffman or Petersson to take a spot, very underrated around here and have more pro experiences than some the other prospects like Stone, Zibby and Silfversurfer.
On the plus side, I just won $20 for betting a friend Butler would clear waives. He was all like: "Oh no Butler is so good he'll get picked up!".
Heh
Latendresse, Anderson (Brennan) or Zibanejad.
There's no motivation for any team to pick him up on waivers. May as well wait until he's UFA and then make a pitch for him. Doesn't mean teams don't like him - just doesn't make sense to grab him off waivers.
HMMMM - I'm guessing Erik Condra.
Wincester
Butler
Da Costa (still plenty of potentiol here)
even Gilroy
All came extremely highly touted, but really did not amount to much.
Of course the argument goes that it really does not cost the team anything as it is not even a wasted draft pick.
Gotta admit I did like what I saw in that first year, however as some have already pointed out, this only proves that BM and PM see plenty more potential in the system.
Silfver, Stone, MZ, but also Hoffman, Peterson etc.
Best of Luck Butler, I do hope you do not come back to bite us in the ass.
Someone had mentioned Pheonix the other day but Tippett would realistically hang him after 5 minutes...same reason Rundblad may end up in the dog house...wouldn' t be surprised to see Rundblad dealt to another team in the not so distant future, maybe Edmonton?
http://www.caglecartoons.com/viewimage.asp?ID={63873F21-36E1-4DB5-A5E1-4FF78AEA8029}
If Phoenix doesn't want Rundblad any more we should offer up one of our extra forwards for him.
Trade in the horizon???
line 1a
line 1b
line 2
line 4
I think Murrays will stand pat and hope with the new CBA the cap floor drops so they dont have to spend ..I see Silfverberg Zibanejad Stone all in this season
Sens officially announce the buyout of forward Bobby Butler - with Stone, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, etc coming - no room & no time to wait. -- Daniel Slater (@ScoreOttawa)
Michalek Speeza Stone
Silfverberg Turris Alfie
Latendresse Regin Zibanejad
Greening Smith Neil
x.Condra/KD
Sign Alfie to an extension. Problem solved.
not to sure the sens will want to have 15 fowards on there roster this year. Some other players have to go to make room for the Stone, Silfverberg, Zibanejad
How would that help to get to cap floor?? please explain?
I hope its Regin, that's something I can get on board with.. I pretty much like all of our players/prospec ts except for that guy..
daugavins is also an easy target.. I like his game, but man, guy needs to learn to hit the net
hope a trade happens soon
Sorry, I didn't think that one through. Maybe buy Alfie out this year and sign him to a new contract? Would that work?
99% likely that spot goes to Silfverburg(the y begged him to stay last season but he wanted to be part of his SEL teams celebrations). He would have to really crash and burn to lose the spot.
On the off chance he falters, I have a feeling they will go to Stone next(he will probably have a shorter leash than Silfverburg).
Then Zibby is third in line.
I really hope our plan isn't to have them rotating in and playing every third game(Likely not that extreme but you get the point)...It is tough to get into a groove if you have to keep switching out and missing games, chemistry also won't develop as quickly if they do this.
I really don't think there are that many question marks this year. I don't even know that someone having an outstanding spring training will even bump the order.
Defense may be slightly more competitive because I think that bottom pairing is pretty wide open. Goalies, Lehner will be in Bingo, doesn't matter if he plays best again this spring.
Agreed. And if Regin can get on that list I'll be feeling even better...
Well for them to buy out Butler, when they could have easily just let Regin walk without any costs to the team, only goes to show us the confidence that they have in Regin.
I remember a time ago when a young stud Centre kept going down with injuries, shoulder, even career threatening elbow inuries, yet the club stuck by him, only to have him develope into on of the teams better players... Mike Fisher.
Not that Regin is a Fisher type, but just like Fisher the team is sticking by him, which I believe will pay dividends this year.
Big rebound year for Regin... Book it!
Even if that did happen, I'm sure we'd never find out.
Quoting conor_smythe:
Agreed, how are Butler and Foligno seen as disappointments and Regin perpetually viewed as a second line forward? I dont hate his game but remember when that guy had THREE goals in 2010? He has 21 points in his last 65 games. Not exactly stellar yet gets resigned. Had that one nails playoff series. Prove me wrong Regin, prooooove meeeeee wrooooong!
Watching X-Files reruns ?
Its called buy low - sell high. Had he had 10 more points last year, it would have cost us probably another million to keep him around. The team liked what they saw in him 2-3 seasons ago, and they like his attitude and work ethic; that's why he gets a second chance and Butler doesn't.
Its just too bad about the injuries.
Based on potential and prior campaigns, Regin and Latendresse are able to put up a combined 80 points for us ***PROVIDED*** they stay healthy, which I understand will likely never happen. That being said, 2 million dollars worth of free agent spending ordinarily will get nowhere near 80 points, so even if there's only a 10% chance that Regin and Latendresse stay healthy and produce, its worth the 2 mill.
Am I Right?
That wouldnt do anything though, since his 4.8M cap hit is already on the book for next season and a resigning will be towards the 2013-2014 season. Maybe buy him out and and sign him again for this season could work, like last time.
No - you're boring.
too old i believe
Technically if that's allowed under the CBA (nobody seems to know for sure if it is or not) then it would help.
You're right that his current cap hit would stay (all of it) but his new deal would be added. But it sounds like what they are doing is an actual extension which of course only impacts 13/14 season.
I don't think we'll have any trouble reaching the floor even if it stays where it is. Especially if we're allowed to do so during the season - i.e. our call-ups will add up to get us there.
If the floor stays exactly the same, we're not allowed to (or don't) buy out Alfie and resign him and we're not allowed to make up the difference throughout the year, then we'll have to make a trade or sign someone or something.
Don't forget, buying out Butler adds $75k to our cap number this year (or $50k depending on who you believe).
Worth it #notreally MT @rudykelly: Pfft-ahahahahah a “@dshoalts: Doan wants $30M over 4 yrs if he leaves Phoenix, source says."
Yikes! If that's really what Doan is looking for I pass. But hard to blame him I guess.
with that said, 7.5 million committed for 4 years on Doan is a mistake.
I'd do 6.5 over 2 years on the right team but based on Alfie returning, we're likely better off taking a pass at this point.
Not sure if that's allowed under the CBA (resign a player that you just bought out) but I'd be okay with that if they did it and Butler agreed. Though I think he'll get a one-way (or at the very least a two-way where he's got a better shot at playing in the NHL) from another team.
And of course, if they did do this, they'd have to trade some of our AHL forwards away to make room still.
What do you have against Condra? I'm guessing you don't like Regin because he got injured?
this.
why do i feel like i am one of the rare few regin fans?
ignore injuries for 30seconds.. 2way speedy center/winger with a very clear elevated PO game.
nothing will make my day more than seeing regin succeed this season in our top 6.
no i like what they bring, just would like to see them step up abit more, i was saying they should look at the bobby buyout as a motivater to get better, cuz there is guys waiting for there shot
Okay. That I get and agree with.
I think most athletes perform best when they've got other guys fighting to take their spots. Butler was rumored to have got a little complacent when he got his one-year deal (according to Joy with the B-Sens whom I trust). So yeah, hopefully this helps motivate those two (and others) in the gym this summer and in camp etc.
i wish him the best he is a good player, just he needs this season to be his best
very true... if not he and Butler may be linemates in the AHL
I still think Regin hits the IR 37 games into the season. Accumulating 16pts.
Whatever. Its one million dollars... that's NHL chump change. Its worth the risk, and if he doesn't stay healthy, we don't bring him back.
Oh yeah I agree, no risk here, just dont see how people think he will break out on the 3rd line, lol. Playing alongside Greening, Condra, Neil...
Miguel, what exactly do you mean by breakout, maybe we have a different meaning of breakout...
Depends on how much ice time he gets. I could see him getting some powerplay time, but I'm not expecting anything more than 30 points from the guy.
Well realistically he'd show good signs there then get shifts with better players and build on that etc. Or maybe someone in the current top 6 goes down.
I think him or Turris on the wing in the top 6 is our best-case-scena rio, i.e. if everyone hits their ceiling this year our lineup looks like this maybe:
Michalek-Spezza-Turris
Silfverberg-Regin-Alfredssson
Latendresse-Smith-Neil
Greening-JOB-Condra
(or something)
Obviously not every guy will hit the ceiling - we'll be lucky if a couple of guys do really.
by Breakout I mean he will have his best season output and will play close to a full season... which is of course optimistic, but if he does put that nagging shoulder injury behind him, I can see him playing spot duty on the second line and have some PP minutes as well.
I think this^ is realistic and should probably be Regin's goals for this year.
i.e.
A: Stay healthy
B: Lock down the 3C job
C: Get PP time
D: Be the first guy PM looks to when he needs someone to jump into the top 6 for a bit
Come on.. Condra is there for his defensive play and the PK.. he's not there to score goals.
If Regin can stay healthy.. he will be fine...
I am sure he is also setting a few goals...like realistic totals maybe 13 goals, 15 assists. Pushing likelihood goals of maybe 19 goals with 22 assists. and holy crap Murray looks like a genius goals of say 30 goals and 30 assists.
He obviously(and so should every fan) hopes to hit the highest totals possible, but if he plays a close to whole season and is a productive member of the team totaling around 30 points on(likely) the 3rd line he has to consider that a successful come back season.
Yeah if he doesn't get significant PP time then 30 points is likely a success (in addition to staying healthy). That's just over what Smith had last year and Smith both over and under achieved throughout the year to sort of net out where he probably should have.
I think if Regin finds himself with top 6 time due to injuries or significant PP time then he needs to get clear of 40 points to really get back on the track he was on before his injuries cropped up.
Exactly it really all has to be taken into context...I suspect he has to have one heck of a season to get another contract from us either way though. I have a feeling this was Murray more saying "you're a good kid...I don't want to see you screwed in the end because of a few fluke injuries". Although, I liked him before the injuries and would be happy if he proves worthy of sticking around
Quoting Sandy:
Doesnt really matter imo
I'm curious too how the D will shape up on the PP. I can't see (or hope I don't see) Phillips and Methot as our second PP pairing. Cowen probably can slot in somewhere as he has a heavy shot but beyond him (and EK65 and Gonch) there's probably room for a forward.
Best season output....LOL, thats not hard to beat man, haha its 30pts, you call 30pts a breakout season?
Geez, the way you were talking about him had me more thinking about 50+ pts
He gets his $400k from us then has the chance to sign elsewhere where he's got an actual shot of making the NHL this season. Even if he signs a two-way deal with $800k NHL money he breaks even (assuming he plays in the NHL).
It's a bit of a hit to the ego I guess, but I'm sure he's not really devastated either.
Got to remember the ice surface is much bigger in the SEL, MUCH more room at the points.
Ya I would be pretty upset with Phillips or Methot on the 2nd PP, and true I hadn't thought about Cowen slotting in the 2nd PP.
Karlsson-Gonchar
Silfverberg/Maybe Alfie?-Cowen
I could live with that!
I'm going to assume that Alfie's not getting any more point time on the PP. He never seemed to end up there last year. Probably to save him the bag skate back if the puck gets turned over.
There's also the Lundin/AHLer option.
If it's Wiercioch that cracks the top 6 then I assume he gets PP time.
Maybe
Karlsson-Gonchar
Lundin-Cowen
Erik Condra was this team's best role player last season. Why would he take a look, he did his job every game and looked good in his first season in the NHL.
He's more important to the team than you may think
i wasnt saying they suck, they just need to look at what happended to bobby and use that to push them selfs to get better, with all the young guys we have, they need push to get to that next level
I don't think Erik Condra was a healthy scratch at all this year. One of our hardest working players. He reminds me a lot of Chris Kelly, a solid role player and good penalty killer.
On Regin, he will need to have a big year, there is still potential in him. It seems as though Regin offers a higher ceiling than Bobby Butler.
I don't think Erik Condra was a healthy scratch at all this year. One of our hardest working players. He reminds me a lot of Chris Kelly, a solid role player and good penalty killer.
On Regin, he will need to have a big year, there is still potential in him. It seems as though Regin offers a higher ceiling than Bobby Butler.[/quote
dude all im saying is the should look at it to get better, condra is good, i want to see him turn into a chris kelly player that would be awesome, kelly could score big goals
im just saying regin and condra need a push to that next level and the bobby buyout should be a minor wake up call for them to keep pushing to that next level
He did what he could but it's just the way it is. Being undrafted too doesn't help the situation either. Aside from Boyle, St. Louis, Penner and very few others, there ain't that many undraftees who go on a rampant destruction in the NHL.
Bye bye Bobby Butler.
He has sick hands but that is basically it.
In a career of less than 100 games he has dirtier highlights than most NHL regulars out there. However the problem with that is that it's the only way he knows how to score. In juniors that works beautifully. Even in college that will make him rack up the points and really stand out. The AHL that will work I'd say farely often but that league will start to show his areas of weakness. However in the NHL there is just no way you can do that on a nightly basis. The competition is way way to good.
The only player that could do that consistently was Ovechkin. But the thing with him is he has serious wheels and a massive frame to go along with that. Even he the past couple seasons is starting to struggle with that type of game because the D-men catch on and are now able to stop him (some of the time). So now he has changed his game around to score in different ways. I just don't think Butler would ever have been able to change his game around like that. He just simply doesn't have the size, skating ability or willingness to go to the dirty areas.
Sick hands can only get you so far in hockey.
I have to agree I also saw big things for all 3 of those guys.
At least something good came out of Rundblad (Turris) and the other two were extremely low risk. It still does suck though
Sorry if you aren't excited for Silfverburg(and it understandable you probably haven't seen him at all...most haven't)....wat ch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VztTAhyzkqk
If you still aren't excited I genuinely question if you even enjoy watching hockey.
Haha. You got me all wrong. I'm super excited about the new trio. I just won't tell anyone, otherwise they will end up being busts like the last three prospects I was stoked about. Where is that sarcasm font? I kinda thought I'd be mis-interpreted
Tcharger, try reading the full post...
on Condra, I like him too but in comparison to kelly
kelly is a better skater
kelly is stronger
they both suck at shooting
condra is a better passer
lets hope condra put some muscle on over the summer
not disagreeing with staying away from adding NCAA players every year however there seems to be a trend with most of them. They all take 3-5years after college to adjust to the NHL and become impact players.
list is much longer than just those, some examples that come to my head are rene bourque, kunitz, rafalski, girardi, burrows, purcell, andy mcD
anyways, you get the point. on that same list there is also the matt gilroys.
basically what im saying is, these guys take longer to develop for some reason and it seems that most dont have their best success until they are on their 2nd or 3rd NHL team.
i wasnt a big butler fan but if he follows the trend, i hope he can start producing for a different team one day. Hopefully a team far far away from our division.
kelly shooting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02SLrqGynEE
condra shooting? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwGcOQ6s5w
i dont hate condra just think he has worse hands than even chris neil. kelly had decent hands
Regin is also a whatever to me, the season before last was a bust for him and this past season he was down to injury, yet to see if he can step up.
I would also think that if Regin, Daugavins & Condra don't have a good season it will be there last in Ottawa.
Well Peter Forsberg says he has a shot similar to Stamkos'...
Uggg late night(can't recover from drinking like i once could) finally now the post makes sense!!! Close to 6 hours later lmao
... and then we resign him
Makes me think we made the right call.
Must be something a professional eye can catch that separates his problems from the usual 'sophomore slump'.
Pay him 6,5,4,3 mil per year.
It's kinda early. Maybe there are some that offered him the AHL or a 2-way.. maybe he is waiting to see what he can get. We don't know if there has even been an offer or not..
no i dont think he has, he has become one of my favs also
plays a good game and drops the gloves when needed to, he still has so much upside, he will show up to camp ready to improve on his last season, which he wasnt 100% after all star game, so looking forward to him this coming season
ha, i hear ya!
i would argue that his replacement smith has much better hands than kelly. kelly has hands of stone by nhl standards hes very good on the pk, has high hockey IQ and is great on the cycle.
good hands, good shot, good offensive instincts he does not...
imo they upgraded when smith replaced him.
its basicaly soft porn
Zack Smith is one of my favourites too. I have a feeling he's going to be one of those players that gets better with experience. By that I mean better in all areas, even size. My feelings of his potential is that he'll one day be a top 6 forward. It might take him until 30, but never the less a top 6 power/2 way forward.
I picked his age at 30 because I feel that a lot of people here won't agree. I think it could be even sooner, but who knows?? Remember this though, Turris got what he wanted last year, so if he doesn't improve and Smith improves, then who knows. Maybe Z Smith as a top 6 will happen quicker then some of his supports think.
Like everything on the internet, some people will disagree and call each other crazy. But if you have the guts to do that, then explain in depth why you feel otherwise. It’s all opionions anyways right?? No opionions are wrong, until they have been proven with facts that are beyond a doubt.
I think smith has a lot more to offer than we saw last year. If we can get him a couple of legit linemates instead of playing musical wingers all season, I think he will continue to increase production.
He's actually one of the Best passers on the team. Just needs to play with guys who can finish
Feels like a perfect way to unload gonchar
I don't think Gonchar would ever waive his no trade clause to go to the Islanders haha and if we unload him then our Cap Payroll would only be at $44 708 333.
If we get rid of Gonchar then we're just going to have to find a replacement for him anyway. I'm not a huge fan of his but he did have a pretty decent season last year.
I suspect if we aren't in the hunt for a playoff spot in February that Murray will trade him. Gonchar has to submit a list of 10 teams that he will accept a trade to between January 1st and the trade deadline.
if we unload gonchar though, we'll be below the cap too. Also, who will fill the spot on D?
Line 2 Latundress - Turris - Alfredsson
Line 3 Greening - O'Brien - Condra
Line 3 Smith - Regin - Neil
my guess because of Silfverberg Ceiling, the past success of the Foligno - Regin - Neil line (subsitue Foligno with Smith) and the histroy that Greening, JOB, and Condra have in common (switching Daug in there ever so often) and the Alfredsson line is basically the same as last year except adding in a legit top 6 left winger. though his bio reads right wing, and i dislike taking people out of there nataural position, but Michalek was a right winger all thru San Jose
edit: i reread what i put, i sound so drunk
What about Zibanejad?
Milan Michalek - JS19 - Alfie
Latendresse - Turris - Silfverberg
Greening - Smith - Neil
Daugavins - Regin - Condra
extra forwards: Zibanejad, O'brien, Stone (maybe)
Karlsson - Methot
Phillips - Cowen
Borowieki - Gonchar
ex. Lundin
I think Zibby can muscle out players like condra or daugavins, but will he be as effective if he's playing on the 3rd line? I think he needs a crack at the top 2 to truely be successful this year.
I was thinking D for D. Good point about him not wanting to head to the Isle though (Alfie4mayor)
as for the cap space, since nobody has a clear understanding of how an extension for alfredsson would affect the cap hit, I just assume that it will work out in whatever way best benefits ottawa (his current cap hit AND extension both work against the cap this season)
Also, dont forget, our prospects have higher cap hits than some of our 'assumed' roster players
If either Noesen or puemple make the team ahead of Daugavins or condra (unlikely, I know) they carry half a million dollars more salary each. Zibenjade has a 1.7 million cap hit compared to Obriens 600k. And Lehner make 300k more than bishop
Cant just go by the default team Capgeek has created
The Sens sit 4M below the cap. Now IF these two sides can't get an agreement in place before the start of training camp.. do they operate 1 yr under the old CBA.. and then what happens to the cap floor.
I really can't see them losing an entire season again. It would take them even longer to gain back what they would lose... (longer than the last lockout)...
Both sides risk a lot if there is a work stoppage.
Ahem, Cowen (although he sucked at it) and Phillips (although he sucked at it) both had more SH-TOI/G than the 4 players you mentioned
Methot Can also play PK (4th on CBJ)
PK can be taught, nobody should be a lock on this team because they play well shorthanded
love it...the dancers between games definitely don't hurt either..never seen more gorgeous british women..other than bond girls.
too many 1 ways to have two 1 ways sitting
there is nothing more disappointing than seeing on the schedule that it's beach volleyball and turning it on to see four guys in shorts playing.
agreed..in fact..we should petition to have men's beach volleyball be removed to include the event of female jello wrestling..just a thought lol.
*football, ok thanks for ur time
yeah not european, its soccer here lol..sorry for the mistake...US upset in swimming, got to love it.
Haha I kno not a big deal
And any time the US loses a competition and ends up with no medal, I share the same celebration
unfortunately.. they got silver..but they are the arrogant gold or bust mentality..root for any country against them to be honest...I like Americans as a person..but sometimes as a whole..way too arrogant.
I was referring to the forwards... not the defense...
Smith, Job, Regin (with a shortage of centers I think zibanejad would start the season as the third line center.)
I really think they may try to move Regin back to Spezzas wing until he hurts himself again and my prediction for opening night line up is:
Michalek Spezza Regin
Silfverberg Turris Alfie
Greening Smith Latendresse
Neil Job Condra
We seem caught up on aquiring a top 6 forward through a trade of some sort when maybe we should concentrate on our d.
Am I alone thinking like this?
You have to think that Cowan and Karl will be better defensively.