A Wholly Successful Off-Season: 20 Years in the Making
The success of the Senators’ 2012 off-season can only be described as mixed. The holes which require filling on the Senators’ roster are not difficult to determine. We are not the Boston Bruins, Vancouver Canucks or the Senators of yester-year; we are not a team searching for the intangibles of winning, but rather a team that requires the very necessities of any competitive squad.
Although mixed thus far, it must be said that this off-season could become what many Senators supporters have long sought and yet have never seen achieved: a successful one.
The objectives for the off-season are uncontroversial based on the overt deficiencies this team has. They are: (1) additional defensive depth, with regard to both prospective and proven NHL caliber players; (2) the acquisition of additional skilled-forward depth to assist in the transitory period concerning the development-curve of our high-end prospects and the eventual retirement of our beloved icon; and finally, (3) the restocking of Binghamton with quality AHL veterans to assist in the development of the medium and long-term prospect projects.
- Moves Made
Without doubt the acquisition of Marc Methot was a shrewd maneuver. The Senators opened up space for a prospect on the third/second -line, and in doing so were able to acquire a World Championship Team Canada level defensive talent. Although many are unaware of the style of game Methot plays, due to the obscurity that engulfs the Blue Jackets market, it can be said his abilities are not unlike former fan favourite Anton Volchenkov. A very steady defenceman, capable of playing in the top-four, who opposing forwards will be wary of entering corners with, and will on most nights be up for the Team 1200’s Hardest Working Senator award. Admittedly the stat-sheet will never be weighed down by the ink used to print his offensive totals, but the acquisition addressed our need for a top-four caliber defenceman who plays with a bit of jam and who is willing to lay everything on the line every night
The other defensive acquisition of Mike Lundin solidified the sixth/seventh defensive position by allowing Paul MacLean to insert a NHL caliber defenceman into the lineup when whichever prospect who makes the team out of camp struggles, and would benefit from watching the game rather than participating.
Guillaume Latendresse is a player that if healthy has a proven record of goal-scoring and size to match. At only twenty-five years of age, it is not unfathomable that he may regain some of his previous offensive acumen and contribute on what could be a very solid third-line for the Senators. It may be that he is capable of filling in on the second-line as well, while Jakob Silverberg (the inevitable forward prospect to make the team out of camp) adjusts to the North American game.
The Binghamton roster is beginning to be filled out nicely as well, and while little fanfare is made of such organizational depth acquisitions, the success of last season underscores just how winning is something learned, and success in the development process can greatly assist the transition of prospective NHL players as they begin their careers.
- Future Considerations
However, there still are glaring needs. There is a void on the right side of Jason Spezza that would be unfair to expect a rookie to adequately fill. It would also be unfair to Spezza to continue to provide him, in what should be his most productive years, with stop-gap players to play with. Greening is a fantastic third-line player, with speed, size, and enough skill to occasionally chip in offensively, but he is certainly not a first-line player on a team with second-round ambitions.
While the defensive core has been strengthened, and the prospect pool refilled through the draft with the very exciting acquisition of offensive OHL stud Cody Ceci, the immediate defensive prospect pool is thin, and the addition of another proven NHL defenceman would help solidify the position and allow more time for our defensive prospects, which typically have a longer developmental-curve than their forward counterparts, to enhance their skills in the AHL and play more insulated minutes at the NHL level.
- Offense
It is not difficult to see where the Senators should be looking to address these two issues. The trade market appears closed, and for good reason. Bobby Ryan is a first-line player, but the asking price is sure to be nearly, or equally, as steep as it was for Nash, and with Ryan too it appears his heart lies elsewhere, specifically in Philadelphia.
Thus, as has been stated elsewhere, Alexander Semin is the most logical target.
A former forty-goal scorer, and proven point producer, Semin’s skill-set, alongside those of Milan Michalek and Spezza, would certainly provide our top-line the potency it has lacked for some time. Signing Semin would also address the unfortunate reality of replacing the production lost when the last Senator to wear eleven on the back of his jersey retires – this year or the next. It makes sense for other reasons as well. With such a lethal first-line, opponents would be forced on most nights to match their best units against these offensively gifted talents, creating a bit more space for an aging Daniel Alfredsson, a developing Kyle Turris, and potentially a rookie who is still acclimatizing himself to NHL hockey.
The cost of such an acquisition would appear to be more amenable to Ottawa’s future Stanley Cup ambitions. The ability to acquire a first-line talent without losing a single prospect or draft pick is not an opportunity that often makes itself available. Further, as may be indicated by the fact Semin has yet to sign anywhere, the offers he has received must not yet be adequate. Perhaps offering even a second year of term may be enough to lure the player, and it would be that second year where the need to replace Alfredsson’s offensive productivity would be in all likelihood the greatest.
Cap space is not an issue, although real dollars are. But if Senators’ management was given the green-light to take on Nash’s salary and cap hit, of which the former is in excess of $7.8 million, while also losing valuable prospect depth, it seems intuitive that this move could be given the green-light as well.
Although many question Semin’s character, it should be mentioned that in giving his acceptance speech for the Hart Trophy, Evgeni Malkin referenced current Senator defenceman Sergei Gonchar as playing a large part in his development as an NHL player. It also should be noted that MacLean appears to understand offensive talent – being a modest one himself not all that long ago – and as evidenced this previous season by the play of Spezza and Turris, has the ability to get the most out of these players in all zones of the rink.
- Defence
While Semin would solidify a glaring need at forward, another UFA, Cam Barker, has gone somewhat under the radar due to injury and underperformance (in what can only be described as difficult circumstances), but would greatly help solidify the Senators’ blueline this coming season.
Barker is another player, like Semin, who will most-likely be underpaid in their next contract relative to their talent. Drafted third overall in 2004, the shine has slightly rubbed off this once budding young star after years spent in Edmonton and Minnesota, along with time spent playing behind – and being compared to the likes of – Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, and Brian Campbell in Chicago. While Barker may not be the stud defenceman many hoped for, he is a capable NHL defenceman who can certainly play in Ottawa’s top-six, and would provide further depth to a squad who appears one injury away from being forced to play an unproven talent at the sixth defensive spot, and two injuries from digging further into what are rather baron defensive coffers – at least baron in terms of players proven to be able to compete against NHL talent.
- The Outcome
With these two acquisitions, which combined would almost certainly be had for less than or equal to Nash’s salary and cap hit, the Senators lineup would look somewhat like this:
Michalek-Spezza-Semin
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
Latendresse-Regin-Greening
Condra-Smith-Neil
Daugavins/O’Brien/Butler
Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Gonchar
Barker-Phillips
Lundin/Borowiecki
Anderson
Bishop
Lehner
This lineup certainly looks more the playoff bound team Senators supporters now expect, and allows MacLean a great deal of flexibility concerning the composition of the lineup each night. It also provides additional depth should the Senators not be quite as lucky as they were last year concerning injuries.
At every position, including goalie, there is a player ready to be called-up that should be able to contribute meaningful minutes, and may in some cases out shine those they are replacing, putting Ottawa in the enviable position of possessing a surplus of NHL ready talent that could be converted at the deadline to further enhance the team immediately, or allow for the acquisition of additional prospects and draft picks.
While this off-season hasn’t been the franchise defining time many supporters were hoping for, it has the potential to solidify this team as a contender for many years to come, with the low cost acquisition of quality NHL talent without subtracting promising young players.
This management team has done a tremendous job thus far in this “rebuild”, and has made it possible for perhaps only the second time in Senators’ history for an off-season article to be written without once referencing the need for a quality goaltender (we have three), and thus the benefit-of-the-doubt must be provided with regard to any direction this group decides to go.
But from this perspective, at least, the voids are overt and easily discernable – as are their solutions.
It sure would be fun to watch.
It's too bad he couldn't get his game together last season. He showed so much promise in his first year of pro hockey. Led Bingo in goals, AHL all star MVP, Calder Cup, played great with Spezza and Greening under Clouston.
Hopefully someone gives him an opportunity to turn his career around.
If Ottawa signed Semin and he fit well, they could probably then have Silfverberg on that top line after 20-30 games (ideally) and let Michalek slip back to a more natural 2nd line role. I'd love that top 6 (assuming Alfie is on it) if it were clicking. if you can get semin on a 2 year deal I say go for it.
Decent article. I don't think we're close to "expecting second round" though. Not this coming season anyway. But getting Semin could be the right move. I certainly would love to see Spezza play with two solid wingers. Adding Semin allows Michalek to be the gritty winger on the top line instead of having to be the go-to guy. And I'd love to see Latendresse bumped down to the third line where he can (hopefully) push the top 6 guys to stay sharp or he'll take their minutes.
For how long is he available to the NHL teams?
I think it's 24 hours then we can buy him out.
Finally, he had more than enough opportunity to prove himself, we have much better forwards coming up through the ranks, see ya Bobby! Nothing against the guy but he was way too inconsistent... .
There is a reason he is still available when all d-men went lightning quick off the market
Honestly, what is the harm if you don't make than a 2 year commitment?
I can only think of two "Russian" free agents Murray has signed, Kovalev and Gonchar, who were both well beyond their primes when they came.
Not sure how you can possibly see these as comparable signings?
With respect to Barker, no f'n way unless it's on a 2way contract. He's one of the worst dmen in the league and I'd much rather let Borowieki, Wiercioch or hell even Ceci take that last D spot over Barker.
Finally, thank god for the Butler buyout! I'm sorry he couldn't replicate his first year success, and honestly I'd have rather given him another shot instead of Daugavins, but the writing was on the wall here. Hopefully a Columbus, Montreal, Calgary or another bottom end team will give him a shot.
and Kuba was arguably the worst player in the league the year before that. maybe he just hasnt found the right partner? Just sayin'...
Florida made the playoffs last year signing a bunch of guys at a discount that no one else wanted.
We are only talking about transitional signings while the youth gains experience. we wouldn't be hanging our hat on these guys. But if by added bonus they lived up to their potential? wowza
Edit - definitely agree with Sensnation that barker would have to be a 2 way signing if it happened.
I cheered for BB16 but i guess it gives #16 to the new clutch scorer Mark Stone.
We are bleeding at the seems with eager young talent, i hope to see some of our young blood play this season and learn from Alfie and Gonchar while they are still here and playing. This could help the kids big time when they are in a situation and need to dig deep to overcome and win.
He cant he's just being a douchebag...
No way you can compare a 28 year old Semin in his prime coming tot ateam who GIVES freedom to its offensive stars, to 35 year old players in decline.
Never thought about Barker, could be a decent signing. But the Semin aspect is IMO right in line with what Sens fans have been demanding. I'd say do it BM!!
Your kidding right?
Butler was given every chance possible to succeed. He lined up alongside Spezza way more than anyone else early on including Filatov, Greening and even Alfie
Butler was given ample opportunity
Semin like Kovalev are full of talent but only play when they feel like playing. We need players that show up every game NO way anyone can say Semin has shown that in Washington.
2 years at 5 - 5.5 won't cut it. He has offers of from Carolina (1 year 6.5) and Pitts 3 years 4.5
It would take 2 years 6.5 million to have him consider Ottawa.
If he clears waivers he'll be bought out or will he just be sent to Bingo, what happens here?
Dale Hunter did.
Butler always seemed to be off the first line before the first period was done, he was always bounced around or in the press box. He did get more opportunity than filatov but not by much. I don't think he had the work ethic that mclean demanded.
#Sens waive Bobby Butler. If he clears at noon tomorrow they'll buy him out for 1/3 of 1.2m left. Cap hit will be .075, this yr, .200 next.
Man must be nice to be NHL scab
He had a solid college career obtaining an education. Leverages it into a solid NHL contract as a risk/reward deal. has a great small sample size of like 16 games.
Makes a million bucks the next year shitting the bed and then gets bought out for $400k into his pocket, while still being able to seek further employment elsewhere
not to bad of a payout for a good college career and not much else
He's a player who I think will really step up this year and lead in Bingo. That push will see him in a Sens uniform sooner, rather than later.
Where? can you send a link?
It's too bad this had to happen. I wish him success in his future...
Good write up. I was against Semin signing in Ottawa.. but you know what.. what about a 1 yr contract - to outbid Carolina. One year with Gonchar.. and getting him away from Ovechkin may be all he needs.
It would be up to Semin to prove it this season if he really wants an NHL career. A motivated Semin would be of great benefit to him and the Sens. An unmotivated Semin will be in the pressbox and probably his last NHL season. We can't deny he is a lot of skill.
Sens current cap total is just over $51.2 -- the cap floor is something like 54.2 -- correct? Now they will lose Butler's cap hit and gain his buyout -- if he is bought out.. so they need to spend to meet the floor... or I guess the floor will go down with the next CBA. So maybe they just wait.
I hope there is no trade for Ryan. Giving up key prospects for a 3 yr rental... I wouldn't want Murray to do that...
I see a very motivated Lehner this year. Based on how they play this season (Bishop & Lehner in Bingo) -- someone is traded at the deadline.. either in a package or for a pick.
Instead of giving him $6.5 over 2 years, I would offer same money over 1 year(like Carolina), play him on Line 1 and the Power Play, which should propel him to score at least 40 goals or more.
If he does attain 40 or more,than offer him an extension of 1 year with same requirements. If he does not score 40 or more, his $6.5 million drops to below $5.0 million.
At least we will have a true and solid line as follows:
Michalek - Spezza - Semin
Murray should consider adding Alexander Semin soon, before
he is picked up by another team !!
However IF the Senators sign Semin, starting @ the season opener, I will not visit senschirp or any other site because I KNOW how people will chew him to shreds about the slightest mistake. "Semin is a lazy bum"..."We should have never signed him"... book it.
Would like to see him on Spezza's wing though. We will only contend for the cup in 2 years, so give him a 2 year 10mill contract with bonuses for playoffs and etc. Would have nothing to lose.
Are they at the 50 contract limit now?
Did someone have to go to make room for another signing? So that's why Butler is gone...
We will know shortly, I guess...
Llyod was actually wrong
The cap hit for this year be 50k and next year would be 200k while actual salary paid out would be 200k this year and 200k next year
Good old reliable capgeek outlines it:
1/3 of salary remaining (1.2) over 2 years (so 200k each year for 400k total)
This year cap hit would have been 1.05, but by buying out they are saving 1 million off real salary (1.2 real but only paying 200k) therefore creating a 50k cap hit difference (1.05-1 mill savings)
Next year he would have been a free agent so the 200k payout goes directly against cap
caphits:
◦2012-13: $50,000
◦2013-14: $200,000
calculations:
http://www.capgeek.com/buyout_calculator.php?player_id=1660&buyout_y=2012&buyout_m=07&buyout_d=26
Daugavins getting a one way deal opened up the buyout option
http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=638612&cmpid=rss-brodie
They take a guy who is used to playing 30 games a season, thrust him into the highest level of playing in the world, and then bounch him back and forth between leagues, forcing him to play 130 something games in a single year?
WTF did you think was going to happen? he was obviously still burnt out last season
I think waiving him is a huge mistake and could come back to haunt us. I'm by no means a gigantic Butler fan, But I definitely believe he has way more to offer than we've seen so far. Some team is going to be lauging themselves silly when they acquire the next Grabner
Luckily, we have lots of prospects to fill the space, but all of them with 0 NHL experience
Also, I would sign Semin for as long as 4 years
anyone comparing him to kovalev is a racist
EDIT: If coach Maclean had a specific problem with Butler, then I support the move no matter what kind of future he has
100% Kovalev was old, slow, and didnt want to be in Ottawa in the first place, just took the money and was happy he was still close to Montreal
Semins point totals reflect Ovechkins point totals. When Ovie goes dry, so does Semin. nobody wants to blame the captain and face of the franchise so they scapegoat Semin. Ovechkin is just as streaky as Semin, but nobody calls him a lazy Russian
Thanks for the clarification Alcatraz!
Serious? Not questioning your opinion but in 2010-2011 he played 36 games for Ottawa and 47 for Bingo then another 23 in the playoffs for 106 total games. Thats basically a full seaosn along with a playoff run
The kid was 24 years old, if he can't handle that workload as a 24 year old and is "burnt out" then he doesn't belong in the NHL
Conversely, last year Greening played 59 games in Bingo 24 in Ottawa and 23 playoff games for a total of 106 games. He played college as well before that just like Butler, and I don't think anyone can say that Greening was "burnt out"
Butler was horrible and couldn't accumulate points playing with spezza and michalek and karlsson on the ice. shameful really
We have a short window where we can buy him out so we have to decide today. If we could, theoretically, buy him out after camp then they'd wait until then to decide.
I don't think the org screwed him or failed to give him an opportunity but under different circumstances he might have gotten more time to sort things out and things could have ended differently. But the way other guys were playing it wouldn't have made sense to keep tossing BB16 out there waiting for him to solidify his game.
Wish him all the best.
The thing is, it isn't low risk, the risk is 5-6 million
I know we have cap room, but spending big money just because you have room is not the right thing to do, even if its on a low term deal
Very well articulated read, thanks to the Josh and Chirp
I am not sure how some people on here do not see over $10 Mil as low risk???
Yes I seen some flashes of what Semin can do, but when the push come to shove he is nowhere to be seen.
How can anyone guarentee that he come in with the right attitude, and change his stripes???
Sad to see what has become of Butler, so much promise after that first year, and then so flat in that last year. Not sure if he got high on his own shit, but seemed to have lost his drive last year... I must admit I am a little afraid of this coming back to haunt us... but at the same time he may just be another Bochenski. Really tough to read
This move should really tell us how big the Sens are on Silfver, Stone and MZ, one of those three will be in our top six out of camp as of now, unless a big trade happens, and to me a clear sign that Semin is not in the Sens plans.
a plus tard
Are you ok spending that money on a guy like Ryan for 3 years, losing assets and a possibility he doesn't remain a Sen after that? The key point here is we are all saying Ottawa needs a true 1st liner, which Semin is. The low risk is we don't lose assets in the deal. Makes sense to me.
Halleluah!!!
Easy to talk about throwing 10 Million when it is not your dough
This player is still in the prime of his career. We were looking at a top 6 foward with our pursuit of Nash and Ryan, so it looks like we are ready to spend the money.
Semin has elite level talent. We have to at least consider the option. If the Sens management stays away, I trust them. I'm just not going to be upset if they do sign him. It seems like a prudent move because they aren't giving up any player assets to acquire him. Sure, it's real money, but it looks like Sens management has intentions to spend it.
I'm certain many are trying to get Ryan and tried to get nash
For me huge red flags become present when a UFA is not being pursued heavily
Remind me that last "1st line winger" that made it all the way to August as a UFA that was in the prime of their career
red flags red flags red flags
name to me the last "1st line winger" that his old team is willing to let walk away
red flags red flags red flags
But spending that money is a risk not only to Eugene directly but to our team as well. If we pay Semin $10M over two years and he contributes nothing of value then that's $10M less we have to spend elsewhere (in terms of Melnyk's willingness - not cap of course).
If it were Melnyk's idea then that's a bit different but it would be hard for Murray to talk Melnyk into something like this and harder still to have a similar conversation in the future if Semin doesn't produce.
If we do sign him then that would have to mean Melnyk is okay with it so that sort of automatically makes it okay to accept as fans (since it literally costs the fans nothing).
I'm not sure that Semin isn't being pursued though. Or that his old team didn't want him. He might just be looking for more term than GMs are willing to give right now or have a very short list of teams he'd most like to play for etc.
Still kind of red flags but I don't think it's a case of no GMs wanting to even consider Semin - just a case of nobody offering a huge mega deal just yet.
lol Zach Parise. Jaromir Jagr. Shane Doan.
I am sure there is an example of it each year.
hes basically a 30g scorer 30-40 assists guy and 60-70pts.
Regardless of what he is asking for if its beyond 6 mill a year then ya its his own stupidity but I have a hard time believing that Semin is going to price himself out of a market, based on his stats alone
Parenteau = 4 cap hit
Parise = 7.8 cap hit
Thats the market this year
so Semin is 5>7
New Jersey didn't let Parise walk away, they were down to the wire and were very active in keeping him.
Jagr is no longer in his prime, and thats comparing apples to organges considering Jagr played 1 year in Philly
Doan is a unique situation being based on management and relocation issues
Again none of those guys (jagr/parise) made it to August
Typically if your good and worth it, a team will cave to get you signed quickly
Semin still on the market speaks for itself.
Alex Semin set to sign in Carolina.
Lol! I was saying Da Costa was French, not you
You know, he is from Paris, ON (in France) according to TSN...
Way to kill the debate!
Gonchar for Briere would serve both teams well. We might have to add a solid role player to the trade. + Briere hit 6,5 mill but really only 12 million for the next 3 years - Eugene would like that.
Carolina's top 6 looks pretty good. Eric & Jordan Staal, Skinner, Semin, Ruutu, Jokinen.
Semin, E Staal, Skinner
Ruutu, J Staal, Jokinen Pretty good gritty second line if you ask me
They could have easily been a top 8 team with or without Semin. They were one of the top teams in the league in the second half of last season. They have questionable depth on defense but they're stacked at forward and have Cam Ward between the pipes. They can compete for a division title.
Absolutely. They have been a fringe 8 team for the last couple years. Adding Staal and Semin definitely make them a better team.
So who's left? Ryan? That's it?
I can see the upside, but as a fan would find it hard to cheer for the guy.
oh was the you in previous post was poking fun of my Da Costa "point per game" player ( sorry he is only a .8 PPG player in the pros and yes Tookie the AHL is still the pros ) b/c I mispelled it pont, as French for Bridge, sorry I thought you meant that I must be Francaise LOL
In a contract year, he'll probably be lights out next season.
Waiving Butler is proof that one of Silfver, Stone, MZ will be in our top 6,
and to add to that Regin and Daug will have bigger roles this year.
Regin is in for a rebound year... Book it!
Though, one thing that shouldn't be overlooked is the competition factor. Lots of players with lots to prove and if teams couldnt figure the senators out last year they'll have just as much trouble this year
Gonna be tough to crack the top 8 (as it always is) but it should be an exciting and unpredictable season
As long as they give it their all and leave everything on the ice every night I think we'll still be a factor. Here's hoping we get underestimated once again
Go sens
On the PP most Def but not 5 on 5.
Semin will dry up.
That's all I've got. You had to know the Semin jokes would be "coming".
For once your right, Regin is going to rebound right back onto the doctor's operating table...where he belongs.
How does taking back Gonchar help them with cap room?
slightly, by like 1.3 million or so.
We would have to take another body back in return.
I dont see us getting briere for gonchar, more like condra/obrien, a prospect, a 2nd rounder.
Left on the FA/Trade table are the likes of Doan, Ryan, Marleau (apparently)
since ive noticed youve asked this question multiple times. i took 30seconds too google it and found it...
http://www.silversevensens.com/2009/12/21/1210240/how-erik-karlsson-scored-his-first
Jokinen Staal Semin
Larose Staal Skinner
Not sure what you mean.
That said I really hope we don't see Bryan Murray and the Canes GM pull off a Semin swap anytime soon.
Listen "Know nothing about hockey"
I would bet you that Regin puts up 40 points but I know you would Welch on that bet too, so whats the point!
Murray (who is Know Everything about Hockey) believes in Regin, Daug and our three Studs in Silfver, Stone and MZ, one of which will be in our top 6, and I naturally have much more faith in BM, than in someone who knows nothing about hockey!:)
I don't buy all the ridiculous nonsense that the Sens have had a terrible offseason, but that said, we have some holes to address.
First, Although you said Alfie was 100% coming back, I just don't buy it yet. Not saying you were wrong, but with no announcement yet, he's either still contemplating or waiting to announce retirement for season ticket sales.
If he comes back, it will likely be 1 year, so why not push for an upgrade in the top 6? We're also still $3M under the Cap Floor, so we have to spend money...
I don't know, I don't like moves that are made just to make moves, but it's looking less and less like a move will be made to address our lack of top 6 depth, which is unnerving. Doan is the last real top 6 guy available in FA, and I'm not holding my breath on him.
The Flyers will have over 7M in cap space once the season starts and Pronger goes back on LTIR.. right now they are at 3.5M with MA Bourdon to sign.. They don't need to trade anybody.. UNLESS... Doan ends up there.. but with Pronger off the cap.. they will still be okay.
The Sens are heading into year 2 of the re-build. Just let it play out..
Teams that are 100% rebuilding don't offer Mika Zibanejad and Robin Lehner in trade offers.
very interesting perspective Rizzo
Wow, that is quite disappointing!
I was one of the few loud Murray supporters when everyone was bashing him a year and two ago, but he really has missed the boat so much this summer. I still want and respect him as our GM, but he has to show he will at least try to make the necessary moves to improve this team.
Add to that the idea he was negotiating so far with Columbus even though we weren't on the list and I'm just left with a big WTF for this summer.
If he wasn't seriously going to add that missing top 3 piece, he shouldn't have gotten all our hopes up.
if you need to Staal Semin, couldn't a condom do the same job? :)
not bad a DenisVial
What is Murray doing ?!?
Zibanejad/Stone /Silfverberg > Semin
What a bunch of whiners! Every team had a chance to grab Semin, and nobody did, until now - do you think maybe there's a reason?
Everyone was all on board with what Murray did last season, and now you think he missed the boat by not picking up a guy that 28 other teams passed on?
Relax.
Damn, now we really do need to worry about Carolina this year. For anyone who debated Semin, doesn't it suck to know he isn't a Sen now?
It's not just about Semin. We were all fine with just going with the rebuild until he opened his big mouth and got our hopes up. The rebuild is fine and great, just leave it at that next time until you have an actual trade that's going to happen.
We aren't panicking, just expressing displeasure with how this offseason was handled and publicly described to the fan base.
But it might be what Murray didnt do that will work out for Ottawa... I will be submitting my Chirp of the week on this subject (hopefully chirp likes it enough to post it)
I agree.
We do not need to pay a player more than Spezza/Karlsson to float around and whine and then disappear in the playoffs like Semin regularly does.
"ON Semin...
I am hearing more regarding Alex Semin every day and tonight the latest has this as a two-way battle between NJ and Pitt. One source I really trust believes NJ is the leading candidate now...I also must add I keep hearing not to rule out the Capitals in this. They have kept constant lines of communication with Semin's group the entire time here..."
WRONG AGAIN!!!! HAHAHAHA
So washington is better by losing Semin and Carolina is better by gaining him ?
But I agree, not worth 7 M so it doesn't matter, lol
While you have a point, those guys are included in talks only for young players with plenty more great years ahead of them (i.e. Nash, Ryan). So if we can turn one of our top forward prospects and one of our two goalie prospects into a guy who's got the same upside (or better) than MZ but is already there - we do it.
It's not really counter to the rebuild per se. Though clearly including Lehner is a step back of sorts in goal. But we'd have to assume that Lehner was simply the price we had to pay to get Nash/Ryan.
I agree with this. A rebuild involves drafting well, growing roots in the farm, letting prospects develop. But in every rebuild, you cannot foster all the required talent within to build a winning team. It just doesn't happen that way now, you often need to add pieces here and there to complete it. This IMO is part of the rebuild process. Look around, it's the norm these days.
#1 The sens won't make the mistake of signing him and then realizing that he will be worse than Kovalev.
#2 It flushes out the comment section for more interesting things.
Agreed. You can't "draft the BPA" every single time (rebuild 101) and then build a well-rounded team (rebuild 101a) without making some trades involving young talent.
But Rizzo has a point too in that the proposed Nash trade did have a bit of "win now" flavor to it as well. So while not contrary to the rebuild (if you're one who believes Nash will produce 40+ goals for years to come) it's probably not "100% rebuild", closer to 95% maybe?
I'd take semin on the top line over anyone we have now
This from the guy who thinks everyone we have sucks. So *everyone* sucks?!?
All kidding aside, I would have been okay with Semin assuming Murray had felt good about making the moves. The days of signing Kovalev simply to have another face to put on the building where Heatley's was are long past. I think Murray and Melnyk have a working relationship now where they're mostly on the same page.
(I'm still of the opinion that Murray wouldn't have singed Kovalev on his own.)
All it means is he saw a player who he really likes that suddenly became available. Nash would have been around for another 10 years. This was the only opportunity to get him.
He never came out and said he's going after anyone else that's of 1st line calibre.
Every GM has a long term plan. Pieces are picked up along the way. They don't all get picked up at the end of this 3 year re-build. Yes Nash would have made us better this year but we still would have been nowhere near a championship team. He would have just been a piece added for whenevr we'd actually be a contender.
And saying the owner/GM were willing to spend 7.8 on Nash means they should be willing to spend 7 million on another free agent 1st liner is crazy. They were going to send back a significant amount of salary back the other way.
We dont have room for signing another free agent. If we were going to do anything it would have been a trade. Yes Semin would have made our 1st line and PP better but we would still be competing for a playoff spot. No way Melnyk spends 7 million just for the he'll of it
The other problem is people think these Q for Q trades are easy to get done. Do you really think another GM will want our excess garbage for one of their better players?? If we do end up making one these trades we will probably still only get back an average player with a similar salary to what ever we sent the other way
He might not. Phoenix is way below the cap floor and need forwards to fill out their roster. Islanders may be interested as well.
I will definitely agree you make some good points. There are however enough 1st line caliber players out there who could be had. Our prospect quantity side of the equation is not low barrel stuff, we have some really good players we can include in a trade that could exceed the quality of the player we're getting back over their full remaining careers.
I'm happy with the way the rebuild is going overall, I just think at some point when we're re-signing some marginal players to 1 way contracts we have to make some room for the prospects to play as well. If that means reducing the competition for top that 6 winger from 5-3 players, it's well worth it. Overall, the 1 quality I've felt Murray lacks, is that ability to pull that final trigger, even if it costs a slight overpayment. Having a great bottom 9 forwards is really nice, but at some point we have to address the 1st line. I'd prefer it was during Spezza's prime!
A trade like the Kessel trade by the Sens right now, would be a slight overpayment, but we'd be serious challengers in the East this season.
So, now onto bobby ryan I guess. Would be really suprised if ottawa aquired ryan. I dont think id want to give up zibanejad or turris but the asking price for ryan seems to be a 2nd line centre and some prospects.
Ottawa just doesnt seem to have the right players to make a trade with anaheim. Which is a shame because we missed out on all these good players this offseason. Rebuild continues i guess.
Stone-Zibanejed-Schneider
Hoffman-DaCosta-Petersson
Hamilton-Dziurzynski-Caporusso
Cowick-Grant-Jessiman
Weichoich-Benoit
Blood-Claesson
Wideman-Gryba
Ekford
Lehner
Lawson
I think that is a hell of a lineup for a AHL. This luneup can very and maybe some of these players dont even make the team who knows at this point, have to wait till after training camp to see what it will look like.
- I have mentioned before that Barker could be had cheap & on the right club with the right coach could be a decent defenceman. He had 24 pts not all that long ago playing limited minutes. He has good size, is a decent skater & has a decent shot from the point. Unfortunately most look at him & say, "what have you done for me lately"? Ans it's not much. I doubt Murray takes a chance with him.
- IMO I think Murray may go into the yr with the players he has. I think Murray will wait to see how Silfverberg does in the top 6, how Latendresse does on the 2nd line & how his defence plays collectively before he makes any more moves. I think they will keep Boroweicki in Ottawa & watch him closely to see if he is indeed NHL ready. Regin, Condra, JOB & Daugavins could all be on very short leashes this yr.
I totally agree that we need to take advantage of having Spezza. I'm as sick as anyone of seeing dudes like Greening in his wing.
The problem is if we got that 1st line stud we would still not be serious contenders.
I actually disagree though that Murray won't pull the trigger when need be. Offering Zibanejad and Lehner + for Nash is definitely pulling the trigger. Same goes for offering Gonchar that extra year hat nobody else wanted to when he thought we were one good defenceman away from being an elite team. Yes he ended up being wrong but he still pulled the trigger.
Wasting 7 million on a guy who yes has a stupid amount of talent but may or may not be a cancer in the locker room as so many of his teammates have said publicly is just not smart. Carolina is much closer than us to competing so it was a solid move for them.
Pageau/Prince not there ? Not much left for them to do in junior.
Another point about a lack of roster spots is that when people were freaking out about us letting go of Konopka and Carkner they didn't realize we still had all these guys to re-sign.
Imagine if we would have re-signed those two? We would have really screwed our selves. Yes the toughness would have been nice but it just wasn't in our best interest.
I think the lineups will be changing a lot this year. We will be bringing guys back and forth from bingo to give them experience. Guys like Hoffman, Stone, Zibanejad, DaCosta, Petersson will all be getting games in place of some of these one-way guys we just re-signed.
It will be a diffent year but a fun year to watch the young guys all pumped up. That's why I don't have any expectations. I just don't see our team being as good as we were last year. So many thing went perfect for us and we still barely made it. And this year we'll be even younger.
Latendresse-Spezza-Silfverberg
Michalek-Turris-Alfie
Greening-Regin-Hoffman
Condra-Smith-Neil
Daug-O'Brien
Methot-Karlson
Cowen-Gonchar
Phillps-(Boro or Gryba)
Lundin
Anderson(Bishop)
I think Hoffman will blow people's socks off in training camp + he's a serious option as a point man on the powerplay. I see him as our surprise to make it. Not a bad lineup - the magic of our team is the no QUIT ATTITUDE we had last year. Get that again and it will be fun again. SENS will finish just in the playoffs again I think. TURRIS will be our breakout guy!
YAWN !
#3 - Mark Gandler is his agent
Only a matter of time...
Ohh well, I gotta assume they have a plan in place...Is the Alfie extension in addition to this season(so 2 more seasons) or instead of the 1Mil he was supposed to be paid? So still only one season??
If its the latter....Alfie just went up another class level, he is 100% only here to teach the young guys.
1. Michalek - Spezza - Greening/Zibena jad (Z will get a serious shot)
2. Zibenajad/Condr a - Turris - Alfredsson (Condra and Latendresse may flip flop as we go)
3. Latendresse - Regin/O'Brien - Daugavins (Daugavins and Regin both need to prove something or they're both gone next year)
4. Daugavins/Green ing - Smith - Neil (Greening has proven chemistry with these two as forming a very solid energy line when a top line shakeup is required)
1. Methot - Karlsson (Karlsson can really play with anyone at this point and with Gonchar being slow and the other two being better (Phillips/Cowen )off together it makes sense for Methot to draw the lucky straw)
2. Cowen - Phillips (Cowen has more offensive upside than he's given credit for and Phillips ensures this is our shut down pair)
3. Gonchar - Borowiecki? (Not sure on this one, personally I believe BM has something else cooking on that front)
These will become irrelevant in all likelihood because I foresee a move still coming for an experienced D-man and another Latendressesque forward possibly top 6 but more likely somebody with sandpaper... we're gonna miss Carkner/Kenopka more than is being acknowledged so far)
Thanks all, Good talk!
BM is all about character, working really well so far so why screw it up.
Ottawa has been looking for "character" guys... He is not one of those people.
As I said the other day, if you are looking to make the playoffs, he helps you without question but I'm not convinced he's the guy you want in the playoffs or the guy you want as a role model to some of your younger offensive guys.
I think what we're seeing here is that the Murray's are prepared to improve immediately if that player also translates into success in the post season and/or fits the long term plans.
I would have been ok w Semin as well, he's an exciting player but I'm also ok with the abundantly clear direction the BM is taking this organization.
Especially when you have them slotted on the top line. Silfverburg is pretty much exactly what we need there(not saying he does it this year) but a 30+-30+ kinda guy.I genuinely believe he will be right in the mix for rookie of the year
You do realize that management literally begged Silfverburg to not go back to the SEL last season right? Do yourself a favor and go watch his SEL highlights video.
I suspect the majority of people who slot Silfverburg behind any of our other prospects is doing so out of ignorance as seeing him play in the SEL isn't as easy as seeing our other prospects play in the ahl/other places.
M*A*S*H but ...........does n't Da Costa kinda look like Radar?
Nice read, who do we go for now?
I think right now, before training camp really kicks off the open position belong to Silf and it's his too lose. I base this on the fact they wanted him here full time last year, gave him the playoff opportunities. BM believes in him, and rightfully so. He dominated in his last full SEL year. But we've all seen how training camp can change peoples mind. So sure, I agree Silf has that spot on paper, but lets wait till all the chips are on the table and we can actually see what happens.
Alfie will be back, there has been an agreement. Confirmed by a source of mine in the Org, but he would not provide anything money/years wise as mentioned above by NHLSourcesSay. I was told to stay tuned for some interesting updates to follow it. Now I'm freaking trying to figure out what these updates are.
Agreed timing etc does seem fishy to me. There isn't really any pressing need to just get rid of him..Isn't everyone we need to sign signed now? Just seems kinda odd to me that we would be eliminating the contract now as apposed to closer to training camp, unless what you said is possible.
He could be pulling a heatley and snorting yeyo in the bathroom at the bell sensplex and someone realized why he is so slow now.
While I totally agree and the Sens have never sent an AHL-eligible player back to junior - this might be the year simply due to numbers.
I'd rather see a couple of forwards moved out for late picks or a Q4Q trade and let Prince and Pageau play in Bingo though.
Let's them add 1 more contract.. or is that Q4Q still out there..
I think they still have to do the Q4Q but it might be an AHL deal at this point. Or simply moving out some b-level prospects for late round picks.
Butler buy-out clears room in the NHL but even carrying 49 contracts is tough. I don't like the idea of Prince and Pageau getting sent back to junior strictly due to roster spots. But in Murray we trust.
Its a max 50 contracts, just like no team spends right to cap you always need to elave a buffer room
Id imagine Murray would actually prefer to get to 45-47 contracts that way during the season they can play the waiver wire or use picks to acquire a player
If they go right to 49/50 any body they want to bring in will have to mean a body out
Your D and Goalies are what I envision it to be but your FW are questionable.
Maclean wont move a 35 goalscorer to the 2nd line...Latendre sse isnt first line material, would be hard to watch.
Also Hoffman is not a 3rd liner, he doesnt play that role, it would be a waste, unless they have a spot for him in the top 6 he wont be on the team. (this year).
Michalek Spezza Hoffman
Silfverberg Turris Alfie
Greening-Regin-Condra
O'Brien-Smith-Neil
Daug-Latendresse(pre-season injury)
If Tenderness doesnt get hurt, they put Silf on line 1 and Tenderness on line 2.
And Hoffman back to Bingo to see if he can dominate.
From what I've read, they were given the opportunity to buy out a contract now because of Daug's scheduled arbitration. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in Phoenix or with the Islanders. They both have to get to the floor.
YEs obvioulsy going right up to the contact cap would be evry foolish, Murray must have a plan in mind, trade maybe for picks?
If methot sumbles at all or doesn't gel right away with Karlsson this could easily become the pairs
Karlsson-Lundin
Methot-Cowen
Gonchar-Phillips
Boro
IN fact I almost like that even more. Gonchar and phillips can be used as PK/shut down roles. Methot/Cowen would be leaned on heavily at ES and then you have Karlsson/Lundin replicating the Karlsson/Kuba duo from a year ago
Serviceable, not top pairing, also the guy is 190lbs soaking wet. I dont want to see 2 skinny dudes on the top pairing, pretty sure that would be a disaster. Nice that they would pressure offensively but defensively that would be a nightmare...
I dont think Methot will falter, he doesnt have to play offensively, just cover for EK and do the bulk of the defensive work. Which he did alot of in CBJ.
Karlsson-Methot
Cowen-Gonchar
Phillips-Boro/Lundin
Interesting
Ummm.. Lundin isn't a Swede
Edit: I see you changed Swede to dude. lol
I know he isnt, he's from Minnesota...
Edit: You quoted my post and in what you quoted there is no mention of "Swede" so I couldnt have changed it after the fact, therefore, no, I didnt change anything.
The "timing" around the Butler buyout is 100% about having a small window to do it now or be stuck with him. There could be something else in the works as well, but that would only be coincidence and not something that would have initiated the buyout.
Murray had the option to buy him out now or risk being unable to move him and be handcuffed with too many contracts/players.
I'm sure he'll find an NHL team willing to give him a shot (we probably would have if we had the space on our NHL roster) but I doubt anyone wants him badly enough to claim him over waivers. They'll wait until he's a UFA and then sign him.
happened yesterday but definately good considering what jones and PA Parenteau got
Has anyone else corroborated this? I know it's been 99% done for over a month now but would love to have this official so I can breathe a bit easier.
I seriously don't think it can possibly be as close as Chirp s implying(nothin g against chirp)...but do you really think either side wants to sign something prior to the CBA/lockout being figured out?
Hope you share these updates with us when you find them out!!
Well I think they may want to sign something before the CBA - i.e. something with a signing bonus so Alfie gets paid no matter what happens.
Really, a one-year extension isn't going to impact our cap situation in any serious way, so not much need to wait (IMO).
But you've got a good point - the relationship is solid there so they might both be fine waiting until the CBA is in place and already have a tentative framework of a deal ready to go.
He mentioned Buffalo told Anaheim they will submit a better offer and that the Bruins would have to give up Lucic if they were interested.
Addendum: Conversely if Anaheim want prospects for Ryan we are better placed than nearly anybody in the league.
If I'm the Bruins I don't think I'd want Ryan bad enough to include Lucic in the package. They're not desperate for top 6 help IMO.
Still not sold on Ryan in Ottawa given that it seems unlikely he'd resign here after his current deal runs out. But if we somehow had a good feeling about that possibility then I'm for it.
Giving up MZ++ for a three year rental doesn't seem to fit since it might be 3 years before we're ready to "make a run" anyway.
lol, you are one slick guy Tookie. You know you had swede and changed it immediately after posting, cause I saw it. I wouldn't lie. Shame on you.
The quote function grabs the "current" version of the post, not the one that's on your screen. I've seen that before.
So typo or mistake or whatever I'm inclined to believe Tooks had "Swede" in there.
Damn if Buff or Bos get him thats another team improving in the East, although Boston is already better, it would surely help Buffalo fight forthat 8th spot.
Thank you, I didnt change anything, MethotMadness just misread.
Maybe if you change your name to "I Dont Know How To Spell"
So wait - are you saying you do know things about Gegrgraphy?
Dont know what your trying to say. Please clarify.
Yeah i did see that, I even considered going back to edit out the mistake but figured the irony of that would be overwhelming.
TOOKIE19 - there is no glass
I also saw the word Swede , and Tookie is faster than Houdini!!
You didnt see anything old man, go back to your tea and crumpets. your IP wasnt even on the list 10 minutes ago.
Nice try tho.
Well, not to belabor this sort of painful topic, but since there's no such thing (to my knowledge) as "Gegrgraphy", nobody could know anything about it. So really we all qualify as "I know nothing about Gegrgraphy"
Per @SunGarrioch, Bobby Butler has cleared waivers, and a buyout by #Sens is pending. #BSens
New topic - let's get off the Swede/dude discussion.
Dear God yes...
Ok happy he's gone, another college pick up that fails, but really what were his chances to begin with...not very good.
I think it was a decent signing originally. Even the one-way deal looked okay until we had so many other Bingo guys pass him on the depth chart.
Really, it's not a bad "problem" when you have to buy out a guy because other guys are better.