In the days leading up to the Draft, it looked like it could be a busy off season for the Ottawa Senators.
And while there were some changes in the Nation's Capital, the off season has been surprising quiet for Bryan Murray and his staff. With that said, the Sens still have some work to do as they set their roster for the upcoming season.
As of the middle of July and under the league's current CBA, the Sens still find themselves well below the salary cap floor. Obviously that's a number that is likely to change so there's no real sense of urgency for the team to add contract right now.
With that said, the Senators could obviously still benefit from adding an additional top six forward. All the same names remain out there (Nash, Ryan, Doan, Semin) but things seem fairly quiet for the Senators on that front.
So while a big splash seems unlikely, they do have some of their own guys that still need contracts.
We know RFA Kaspars Daugavins is headed to arbitration and has a hearing scheduled for later this month. Jim O'Brien, Stephane Da Costa and Eric Gryba also need contracts for next season. All three of those players appear to be in the team's plans moving forward.
Meanwhile, Jesse Winchester and Matt Gilroy are both unrestricted free agents. Gilroy's time in Ottawa is done while Winchester remains an option for the club. Fact is, right now anyway, there is no room for him in the forward ranks.
And of course there is the news everyone is still waiting for and that's the status of Captain Daniel Alfredsson. All signs STILL point to Alfie returning to play another season but the organization is still waiting to hear for sure. Have mentioned this before but it sounds like the plan is to give Alfredsson a contract extension.
So while things certainly seem to have gone quiet on most if not all fronts for the Sens, there is still plenty that needs to get done this off season.
- If the rumoured asking price for Shane Doan is legit, you can guarantee the Senators won't get anywhere near those negotiations. Word is an Eastern Conference team is willing to back the truck up for the unrestricted Shane Doan with the offer believed to be four years for $30 million. That team is not the Ottawa Senators. It does, however, have the Winnipeg Jets written all over it.
- The news of the Sens brining back Andre Benoit has been rumoured for quite some time but became official late last week as Benoit was signed to a one year/two way contract. It's interesting to note that shortly after the signing, Tim Murray suggested that Benoit isn't automatically headed to Bingo and will have a shot at cracking the roster.
- The biggest hockey related news of the weekend came in the form of an initial proposal from the owners to the NHLPA in CBA negotiations. Among the items identified by the owners; player revenue share down from 57% to 46%, 5 year max contracts, 10 seasons before players can reach unrestricted free agency, no salary arbitration and 5 year entry level contracts. Certainly a lofty set of demands. Should be interesting to see where the negotiation goes from here.
I honestly expected the initial offer from the owners to be worse than it was. I also really don't think anything they are putting as sticking points it that unreasonable, certainly some of the numbers need to come down a bit but I seriously can't see it being a huge battle over these things. Unless the players come back with some insane demands.
Or they are expecting an epic battle with Fehr helming the PA now and this is where they are drawing a battle line.
So we already know apparently the players were willing to play out this season under the current CBA. If this proposal is what the owners want to get into place, then that is looking like a big "uh-oh" for the start of the season.
Its an awful offer, and the NHLPA I would say have grounds to file a suti saying the NHL is not bargaining in good faith
19% revenue share cut?, entry level contract are same length as all other contracts? Meanwhile you must play 10 years before you can change where you would like to play?? Heaven forbid you get drafted by CLB and are now stuck there for 10 long NHL seasons before leaving town on own terms. How many players get lucky enough to play 10 years
Finally taking away arbitration is ridiculous, and thats going to be a huge sticking point for the players. Essentially the NHL is trying to remove all bargaining power out of the players hands and making them into cows for the owners to herd around
After all the NHL players did at the last CBA, how the game has turned around, and for the owners to offer this low ball offer is just a slap in the face to not only the players but the fans also for how we responded the past 9 years
As long as there is no lockout I'll be happy. I got my season ticket package breakdown for next year and I am pretty happy with our schedule. I love the summer but I can't wait for October to come around.
I'd like to see 10 years to UFA, and longer entry level contracts (4 years) and max 7 years for any deals. Or some hybrid of teams that drafted a player and has been there the whole career can sign players to longer bigger contracts for a retention incentive.
The salary thing is unjustified considering the NHL makes more money every year. If they just stopped putting teams in places that don't make sufficient revenue than we wouldn't be worrying about cutting cash from the guys who bring in the fans.
Arbitration I'm indifferent about. If you sign a contract... well you signed the contract. I don,t see why players should be able to get the chance to back out of it or ask for more money because they played better that year. That's their job, play better and when you get to UFA you cash in
Doesn't mean they won't add another contract (we'd all probably love a Q4Q trade) but don't make the mistake of thinking Murray is frantically looking to spend a bunch of money to make the floor - it's not a concern.
On another note, now I can see why John Tortorella hates Larry Brooks so much. Headline by Brroks says "NHL declares war on NHLPA". Anything to sell a paper hey Brooksie? Have to wonder how some of these media guys, Don Brennan, Larry Brooks, etc... keep their jobs.
They won't get serious until next spring. It's like when you get an assignment in school and it's due in three weeks. You might as well assign it for tomorrow because everyone will do it the night before anyway. What a joke.
I think limiting contract length is a bit much though. Maybe tie in contract length and NTC/NMC. For example, they could limit NTC/NMC to five years but contracts could be as long as you want. So you could sign a guy for 10 years with a NTC for the first five only (or something). I don't think long contracts are really causing problems except when they have a NTC/NMC included.
5 year ELCs seems a bit crazy too. There's already a few major bargains in the NHL where guys develop really fast. Maybe do something similar where the standard 3 years ELC remains but there's another class of 5 year ELCs with a higher salary range. Allowing teams to lock up their blue-chip prospects a bit longer but for slightly more money.
Honestly, don't care too much about the details as long as there's no lockout/strike.
Thats not what arbitration is for. Arbitration only applies to restricted free agents who are "qualified" at I believe 1.1x their previous contract. For example last year Weber used it to get his raise to a much more deserving 7.5 mill
Out of the major points in the latest proposal my counter would be:
1- 50/50 split of revenue: This would be great on NHLPA image by basically saying "hey lets meet half way!" if NHL says no, now they are the greedy ones
2- 8 Year max contracts on non UFA players, 6 Year max on UFA players. 3 year ELC expires at 22, a player can re-up past UFA until 30. This will help control the "open market spending" and promote "building from within"
3- 9 years of service or 28 years old, which ever comes first (so 18 year old NHLers qualify at 27). I put it at 28 that way when your a UFA and are now 28 you can only sign a contract until your 34(6 year max), this would elliminate some of the 1 million back end deals). And if you sign a RFA deal til 30, then your still only signed until 36 and again eliminates the 40+ contracts
4- Arbitration only after second deal
5- Entry level contracts stay at 3 years
Agreed but will point a few things here. The CBA actually expires in September. So your point of view reflects what happened last year. The NHLPA is willing to play with the current CBA "during negotiations" I highly doubt the owners will allow that, and come September 15 you will enter a "lockout" which means the owners will not allow players to play without a cba.
So they can't just say lets play and talk next spring
I disagree - there are far too many new posts on this site. It's impossible to keep up! Don't bow to the Zach Attack chirp - take your time.
Yeah this is the scenario I am worried about. Would be terrible optics for the owners though, making such a shitball offer that a 3 year old could tell it's a joke and then lock the players out...
Of course this offer will evolve a lot over the coming weeks.
I will assume that most of the points will essentially be the polar opposite and then each side will essentially say "look this point is more important to us if you are willing to move on this one and let it slide a little our way we will let point b slide a little in your favor"
Rinse repeat for each point....then there may be one or two things that the players bring up that the owners didn't and they will work on those.
If we get to the third or fourth offering and there is still no movement/progre ssion then start to worry.
The owners went so low that it just looks bad, and clearly they are stating that they will not accept anything close to the current system.
They went for the juggular on some of their concessions (max contracts/arbitration)
Now the NHLPA will counter:
1- No max contracts
2- 4 year Entry Level
3- 54% revenue share
4- Arbitrations allowed
5- UFA eligibility sooner
And then we have our two polar opposites and we just wasted 2 weeks of bargaining.
It was an insulting offer, regardless if its the first one
Put it this way:
Teams interested in Parise this summer. If they would have went to him and say "we really want you, how about 2 years 10 mill" Parise would have said no thanks, F-U and then screened their calls the rest of the way.
Regardless if its the first offer, its their league and they need to show that they are interested in finding a middle ground, that works well for both sides, not just their own side, and show promise that it could be ended soon. The first offer dictates the pending outcome, and this first offer was so low, it shows the NHLPA that they are not interested in meeting halfway or even trying to meet halfway.
There very well may be a lockout who knows....but for anyone to say they expected it to start differently than this, they are hoping for a fairly Utopian world.
They amend the current CBA for one year, and then negotiate a new one while they play the year out. I don;t see why can't...
It's completely legal and possible contractually.
Oh for sure, but they just aren't goping to do that. 3 years ago they had an opt-out which they decided to not use. to allow for this CBA to extend
And now after seeing this first offer, its clear the NHL does not want to use same CBA again
20 posts yippee!!
Not sure I see the connection. Gonchar is far from "no heart". He's showing his age sure, but I don't recall anyone who actually knows hockey ever claiming Gonchar had no heart. Yashin was more about greed and keeping his supermodel wife happy than about heart, and yeah Kovalev was just bored with life in general.
I don't want Semin either as I don't think he's got the right work ethic that Paul MacLean wants his young players to have - but I don't get this 1970s-style "all Russians are bad" philosophy.
There are plenty of reasons not to want Semin without having to ruin your credibility by implying that being Russian is some sort of deciding factor.
I like Alex Semin...let's spend some of Eugene's money, we are not the Toronto Blue Jays.
I think a lot of the requests the NHL made will not be met in the end and the ones that will are likely to save the owners from themselves anyways. Either way, I don't think we have to worry as both sides seem amenable to playing another year under the current contract if necessary.
Hoping Shane Doan starts the dominoes soon. I thought the team that made the big offer was Montreal, but Winnipeg wouldn't totally surprise either. He'd be a great player to have in the 4-5mil range, but 7.5mil is a bit too excessive imo.
I am going to admit that a lot of Russians don't commit to NHL hockey s much as the domestic players, however I can name a few of them I'd want on my team ANY day:
Datsyuk
Volchenkov
Malkin
Ovechkin
Vokoun
Fedorov
Kovalchuk
Gonchar
These guys, in their prime were elite players and played with their heart. A lot of them still are elite players.
I don't think that's what they mean by arbitration. Arbitration is a right RFAs have after their contract has expired and they're looking for their new one. It allows them to appeal to an outside party to try and get paid market value when the team that holds their rights and all the cards plays hardball with them. This will likely be one of the issues the NHL gives into very easily.
Today, any Russian player that was strictly about the money could probably make more in the KHL than the NHL anyway. So while you're always going to have players with questionable "heart" coming out of any nation, I think it's safe to say that most Russian players care as much about winning and being a good teammate as any others.
The only really valid concern with any non-North American players is the issue of culture shock when they come over. And that is by no means universal to all players but would be something scouts would report on for prospects. If a kid is deemed to be capable of handling the transition from playing junior in Europe/Russia to playing in the AHL then he's not really different from any North American prospect. But some will have trouble with the adjustment so that is part of the consideration of when/if they get drafted by a specific team.
Second, the ability of teams to hide their bad contracts in the minors. I think the best example is Wade Redden and Brad Richards. The Rangers should not have had the opportunity to sign Richards without making some sort of deal to clear cap space. However, by burying Redden in the minors, the Rangers were able to get the top free agent last year. Not only does this impact the competitive balance between teams, player's salaries get pushed up higher as his contract becomes the new precedent. If there is a bad signing, the offending team should have to deal with the consequences.
So, has anyone heard anything on any changes to these things in the new CBA?
Yeah sensation I think you are right, I don't know why I though players could file for arbitration during their RFA contracts, I guess it's only once it expires they can ask a 3rd party to get fair market value. In that case, I agree that arbitration should be allowed
I just don't see it - why sign them for a million bucks if they'll never see the ice - they just aren't good enough. Ok for last year's team but this year's team will have better options.
I think O'Brien deserves to come back as the 4th line C. I'd even say he deserved a contract ahead of Regin, though Regin definitely has a higher upside. I wish they had just let Daugavins walk though, he's a classic 2way contract player that doesn't offer enough to get a 1way, imo.
They can't let Daugavins walk. Unless the arbiter awards him $1.5M (which is unlikely).
Spezza
Turris
Regin
Smith will be the 4th center
No room for O'Brien + he isn't physical enough or skilled enough.
While I agree with that list (though Regin is a gamble of course) I don't understand how you can say O'Brien isn't skilled enough to be on the team.
To me, if we can Q4Q to make some room our team is better with O'Brien on our fourth line and available on the PK etc.
But of course bottom six guys aren't going to make or break the team.
My understanding is they could have just made him a UFA by not qualifying him. That's what I'm talking about. If he didn't want a 2way, let him go and don't even get to arbitration.
I understand they can't walk from the arbitration award below that certain figure, as I mentioned that last week along with you.
Keep him far far away from us lol
Regin is not good enough at C. I think Smith will definitely be 3rd line C once again as he needs the ice time that comes with it to be effective. Regin is either a 4th line C, a winger or getting a 1 way ticket out of here (waived). I'd rather O'Brien take that 4th line C role.
Regin is a very effective 2 way centre. I totally see him being a factor on the ice in the 3LC role, with Smith playing 4LC. The two would then become 2 key pieces on the PK along with Michalek/Condra /O'brien/Daug
Although there probably isn't room for him at C. I believe Smith is a much more effective 3rd line C and will give us the grit we need from that line.
I'm hoping to see Greening, Smith, Neil as our 3rd line.
Regin could fit as 1st line LW if he is healthy or second line LW.
Although I imagine
Michalek Spezza, Silverburg
Latendresse, Turris, Alfie
So Regin will either be traded or reduced to the 4th line with Butler and Condra?
Condra, Regin, Butler.... Extras are OBrien, Daug...
As much as I liked winnie there is no room for the kid. Even stone will probably only get a look once someone gets injured.
I don't think his lack of a physical game suits a 3LC role. Smith is too good for 4th line duty as well. I'd be amazed to see that happen, but should be interesting once camp rolls around. But with a less physical team I'd expect PM will want to roll Smith and Neil out there as much as possible.
1a and 1b line
3a and 3b line
in terms of icetime anyways. Thats essentially what he did in the playoffs
Our 1a and 1b lines will also be the main source of our pp guys and 3a and 3b be our PK guys
Depending on who is playing well in eaach given game will decide playing time come 2nd and 3rd period.
By spreadin out our centre we can roll much easier
Latendresse-Spezza-Silf
Michalek-Turris-Alfie
Greening-Regin-Neil
O'Brien-Smith-Stone/Daug/Condra
Lol this is comical
Thats why we are lucky to have a player like Spezza. Elite Centres are hard to come by yes. But I'm pretty sure Turris is still young and improving, and there is a reason why a guy like Brad Richards makes so much money now, because 1LC are rare to put up a ppg
relax on looking 5 years down the road to replace Spezza.
Nathan Lawson
He played 10 games for the Isles in 2010-11 but spent all of last year in the minors with decent number .914 and 2.57
Quoting Alcatraz:
Update included at the top of the post. Good depth pick up for the team down in Bingo.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DM3nEtK__sZU%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&feature=player_embedded&v=M3nEtK__sZU&gl=CA
No but I hear Murray is gunna kidnap Nash and force him to add us on the list. Plan B sees Murray kidnapping Ryan telling him to demand a trade to Ottawa even though we don't have NHL ready pieces Anaheim wants. Plan C is for us to offer a 4 year 32 million contract for doan to outbid everyone else
However you post these, from your mobile device or whatever, PCs can't understand the protocol for those web pages. Here is a better link for the same video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=M3nEtK__sZU
Why, you have somebody in mind? Also, his contract expires in 3 not 5. You keep telling yourself that Turris is "young" and "will continue to develop" and "maybe one day can put up Spezza points" with your fingers crossed.
Find me a Centre that is either available/will be available that can be a ppg player?
Better yet find me 5 centres that were ppg last year?
You mentioned Mackinnon. So you want to waste a full year of Spezza's 3 years to "hopefully" land top pick? Make no sense at alllllll
And if we pull a CLB and have worst record and lose out on pick. then what?
We are ok at Centre
What do you mean "us"? I personally don't want to be included on any opinions you have, ever.
Well that's true. So clearly simply by qualifying him they've indicated they plan to keep him around or trade him. Otherwise it would be a pretty dumb move to qualify him.
agreed Hax, the zipper doesn't speak for the rest of the Ottawa Sens faithful, he is someone that either been dissed for a Michalek autograph or someone told him Michalek messed with his mom, either way..he doesn't speak for the Sens Army.
HE is useful and serves a purpose, so qualifying him was a no-brainer, you don't let NHL ready assets walk (at least trade for a 5th rounder etc)
I don't think Sens expected him to apply for arbitration tho. Had they known that who knows
Well all he wants is a one-way deal I'm sure. So a sign-and-trade is still possible (for that 5th rounder even).
The issue I have about the owners/NHL/Bett man proposal is that it goes completely against what the owners have allowed to happen this past month
Find me 3 contracts for top 4 or top 6 players that were shorter than 5 years? How much money did they just blow.
I know the system allowed it and they had to in order to not risk losing certian players, but really the only thing the players do that should be fixed in a CBA is handling of NTC and arbitration everything else the owners do on their own, and yet they are the ones trying to protect themselves..yet again
That is why I said SOME people say Gonchar has no heart. I think he has heart, however sometimes is lazy and has streaks of being a ghost on the ice. For his salary i expect more from him...thats all. Last year he had a great season year before that he didnt, but then again who did lol
As for the CBA -- if teams want to sign players to a 13 yr contract.. then let them do it -- provided the low point in way of salary is no more than 20% (or something like that) less than the high point in salary. That right there will fix these ridiculous long-term contracts. They are that because of the very minimal salary at the end.. to bring the cap down.
Also it's only the rich teams that can bury the high-salaried players, they no longer want and can't trade, in the AHL. That's just another way to circumvent the cap.
That loophole too has to close.
To me, marian hossa is the smartest player in the league. 3 years, 3 different teams, 3 cup finals apearances and 1 stanley cup ring.
Zach parise might never make it to the cup finals again, and now hes stuck in minnesota for 13 years
If youre a good player, and not completly pussy whipped, you should be signing 3 year deals max.
Players these days are soft and have no smarts. There are no more dynasties. Playaing dor a team for 10 years means ypu have 1 MAYBE 2 shots at a cup.
5 year contract max would make my day
So is that because he's Russian? Or is it because he's getting a bit older and "picks his spots" more?
You're a jackass can we keep you far away from us??
Obviously hes getting older and near the end of a great career...(I never said I didnt like the guy because hes russian)
Q4Q trade(s)
Has to happen soon (and maybe a few of them).
Even trading some guys for draft picks - I would have thought we would have done that at the draft in fact.
Ya i think BM held off with the weaker draft
I suppose. And who knows - maybe they made a few offers but didn't get any takers?
But something definitely has to give here. We're waaaay overloaded at forward and pretty full elsewhere as well.
34 forwards (including Filatov). Two (Noesen and Puempel) likely headed back to Junior and two more could go back (Prince and Pageau) though that would mark the first time we ever sent an AHL-eligible player back to junior. Would still leave us 29 forwards spread over two teams.
14D and 4 goalies means there's no room for more there either (or to go with 6D in Bingo and carry an extra forward).
I'm not really worried - I know they'll clear things up. Just curious how it will happen.
(Counts include RFAs that have been qualified - and of course I could be wrong. Used capgeek.)
Ya I think BM didnt get any biters so to speak. Youre right we are overloaded on forwards, but if you look at the depth charts not so much on RW it kinda scares me, its been like this for a few years now too. http://capgeek.com/depth_charts.php?team_id=23
Some big prospects are there however.
It counts towards the 50 max (as far as I know) but I'm more worried about the roster spots.
Hax, that was just a pure statement of opinion. I said I wished they HAD just let him walk. That was it. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm just saying how I would have played it.
Anyways, they can still re-sign him and waive him to the minors if need be.
I think your allowed 50 pro contracts and 90 total contracts. something along those lines
That's pretty common around the league I think is it not? RW (true, natural RW) seem rare compared to LW (but I honestly don't know the actual stats). But with so many natural centers I think they just end up on the right side.
Good read and write up here. Dont mean to take anything away from chirp here folks but i have to support my buddy he knows his stuff! and its fun to debate :)
This applies to players that have signed an ELC:
"18 and 19-year-old players assigned to their team in the CHL do not count against the 50-contract maximum, until they have played at least 11 NHL games in one season."
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=430807
No I get that now - thought you were talking "now" the first time but then understood when you clarified.
But I don't think they'll be allowed to waive him if he wins his arbitration case (but I honestly don't know).
"A team may not have more than 50 players under contract at any point during the season. This limit includes players on injured reserve or long-term injured reserve.
Exception: A 18- or 19-year old player with remaining major junior eligibility, or a player who is drafted from a European team who is then selected in the CHL Import Draft, does not count toward the contract limit until he has played at least 11 NHL games, if the player is assigned to his major-junior team only.
So, Puempel and Noesen (and Ceci) don't count against our contract limit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#Contracts_and_contract_limits.
And then neither would Prince or Pageau if they sent them to junior then? I assume the "18 or 19" refers to junior age as opposed to AHL-eligible age.
I'm probably not going to take too much notice of somebody who states that a Conn Smythe winner is the probably the most disappointing Russian playoff performer in the league.
Especially when the proof of that disappointment is that he only scored 8pts in 6 games last time out.
I like women, all of us do.. Well most of us
as you can see Hax isn't down with us
You guys are so mental
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgaxOAGcM6w
Shane doan is a dirty player FACT
Michalek is an overrated player that will do us no good at the end of the day
FACT FACT FACT FACT
cry me a river nerds
Unless you want a cheap shot over paid loser like Doan
Then guess what?.. you agree 100% with me
What happened to Smith the last halve of the year? He only had 3G-3A for 6pts in the last 42 games then 1A in the playoffs. I expected more from him and was surprised to see such a drop off in his production. Shawn Simpson eluded to personal or off ice issues on the radio once. I know a lot of people like him but he reminds me a lot of Foligno, all this promise of Grit and guys that get dirty but don't live up to the hype.
Without me you would have no one to pretend to be better than
Fact is I'm always right
Michalek did jack shit in the playoffs and coach Mclean said it himself Michalek's penatly on the powerplay in game 6 decided our fate for the series
Oh hey, where is that other guy I called out as being useless and hurting the team?.. Fo-lig-nose or something
where is he at these days?
You are probably the same dudes that stuck up for heatley until it bacame cool and mainstream to hate his lazy ways
Pageau and Prince will both be 20 this year, so they will count against the contract limit either way. Don't forget they are in their last junior year which means they are or will turn 20 in the upcoming season
I think the demise of that was either the catalyst for the Methot deal or now that that deal has been made the Hjalmarsson trade becomes superfluous.
We already have 6 players signed to spots on the blueline, with 5 of them being 1 way, no need to clog up that area any further just yet I don't think.
I would have preferred Hjalmarsson to Methot but was happier with Foligno going rather than Smith.
I agree however that Smith needs to have a better second half of the season but there were very few of the guys who played the full playoff run with Bingo who had great 2nd halves last year. Cowen was maybe the exception. Didn't Smith get a concussion or something at some point during the season, I remember him getting hurt and then looking like he had lost a yard of speed.
Yeah I know how old they are - I was wondering if the age in the CBA refers to their "official" junior age (i.e. 19 for both) or their official AHL age (20 for both).
"I hate to say it but zip zap was right about michalek"
Enjoy the season and think of me :)
The last lockout began with an initial proposal too...
I think both sides know that they can't afford another lockout this soon. They're just starting to get real traction in the US market, even staying under the current CBA should be a no brainer for a year.
Ah ok, no prob. I believe they can send him to the minors and he'd have to clear waivers if he gets a 1 way. I think this is allowed even after an arbitration case, but like you I'm not 100% on that either.
I just hope he doesn't take the spot of a Stone, Zibanejad or hell even Regin, O'Brien or Condra.
Just out of curiosity, what would it take to change your opinion of Michalek? If he hits 40 goals next year or is a ppg player will you still be bitching and moaning?
Agreed I don't want him taking a spot just because he's on a one-way (Butler already in that situation).
Too bad it's not NHL12 as we could probably get some great players by packaging up Regin, Butler, Greening, Daugavins, Condra etc. That's why I thought maybe move a couple of guys out for draft picks might be more realistic. They might be able to do that after training camp even - i.e. if some team feels they're short on "NHL ready" players and/or don't want to rush their prospects - they might be willing to part with a pick in 2013 in return for one of our excess guys.
Or am I dreaming that anyone would trade a pick for a bottom six player?
Yes.
Lowly Kovalev got us a 7th rounder, so certainly a decent depth player like Daugs could get us at least a 6th!
his stache should garner us a 5th alone
Haha I hope so. Trolls will be trolls but this guy is relentless. If I had to bet money I'd say Michalek banged his gf (if he has one).
Yeah I asked him the exact same question about 8 months ago. I know it's childish to resort to 'banged your mum' type jokes, but in his case his infatuated hatred for some particular players is rather mind boggling.
Maybe some sort of obsessive order + a dash of attention starved + 9MM banged his GF. Haha.
I think it's probably best case scenario that we'd get a low pick back for a fringe NHLer. Ones with some potential left like Regin or Butler might get you a late one if some other team still sees potential in him, but I think Daugavins is pretty much a 4th line player at best with no real upside.
I like the NHL 12 idea though, we'd have Crosby in no time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsFs6K8foTc&feature=related
Michalek did very very well within his capabilities last season, but if we're going to contend any time soon Spezza needs to have a star winger skating on his line, bumping Michalek down a notch on the depth chart. We ALL know this!
Milo's a very useful player so stop ripping him for being what he is. It's not his fault he's the #1 winger on this team.
Stop crying over the fact that we don't have Nash or Ryan or whoever else. If you're such a genius then what do you suggest the team does about the void on the first line?
Your whining is getting repetitive and just plain stupid. Try contributing something more to this site than bashing Michalek, a guy who lead the team in goals this past season.
O'Brien over that injury prone Regin any day of the week!!!
So columbes wants forwards for nash? how abour MM, Regin and Smith? sounds fair?
11 guys (including O'Brien) that are basically on the NHL team unless we trade them. Butler and Daugavins (unless slots open up) look destined to be waived maybe and sent to Bingo? Our three top prospects are fighting over maybe 2 spots and could potentially force our hand on moving other guys out.
Even if we carry 14 forwards at the NHL level though AND send Prince and Pageau back to junior we're still a couple of forwards too many. Or does someone end up in the ECHL?
Spezza, Jason - NHL
Alredsson, D. - NHL
Michalek, Milan - NHL
Latendresse, G. - NHL
Neil, Chris - NHL
Turris, Kyle - NHL
Greening, Colin - NHL
Regin, Peter - NHL
Smith, Zack - NHL
Condra, Erik - NHL
O'Brien, Jim (RFA) - NHL
Butler, Bobby - NHL or waive to Bingo?
Daugavins, K. (RFA) - NHL or waive to Bingo?
Zibanejad, Mika - NHL or Bingo?
Stone, Mark - NHL or Bingo?
Silfverberg, J. - NHL or Bingo?
Schneider, Cole - Bingo
Hamilton, Wacey - Bingo
Petersson, Andre - Bingo
Hoffman, Mike - Bingo
Cannone, Pat - Bingo
Cowick, Corey - Bingo
Grant, Derek - Bingo
Jessiman, Hugh - Bingo
Dziurzynski, D. - Bingo
Kramer, Darren - Bingo
Culek, Jakub - Bingo
Caporusso, Louie - Bingo
Da Costa, S. (RFA) - Bingo
Prince, Shane - Bingo or overager in Junior?
Pageau, J. - Bingo or overager in Junior?
Noesen, Stefan - Junior
Puempel, Matt - Junior
Filatov, Nikita (RFA) - KHL (retain rights)
Winchester, Jesse (UFA) - NHL or let walk?
I only include Winchester here since if we somehow make space I would think the team would like to keep him - but that would mean clearning A LOT of space.
50 goals in 6gms, not to hard to get 8pts when theres a pilon in net
Good problem to have really and not that it would be too difficult to fix with a couple of minor-league deals even, but hey, it's July.
The numbers just don't add up without a Q4Q trade. There are about 3-4 forwards too many signed right now (plus Daugavins and O'Brien). And some of those overage CHL players will be deserving of AHL or maybe even NHL roles.
Yeah I'd much rather see Prince and Pageau in the AHL than back to junior (though I guess seeing Prince with the 67s - and Ceci - isn't so bad). But we might be stuck sending them back if we don't clear some space.
Don't worry.. we WON'T.
He really does have a great shot.. this one and the one on Lundqvist in OT in the first round..
First off, I feel like BM has a few extra forwards because he still technically doesn't know what Alfie is doing. I know we've all heard he is "most likely" coming back, but until that is 100% I'm sure BM has to prepare for the ULTIMATE worst case scenario.
Second, as we learned last year, injuries happen. Also, nothing is better for these youngsters then some stiff competition at training camp.
I personally cannot wait for some of the battles between the likes of Regin, MZ, Sliverberg, Bobby Butler, Zach Smith, Erik Condra, Mark Stone etc.
I have a feeling our lines will look something like this to start the season in MTL:
MM9-Spezza-Sliverberg
GL73-Turris-Alfie (here's hoping)
Grenning-Z.Smith-Neil
Condra-JOB-Regin
extras-BB16/Daug
mz93 and Stone in Bingo (to start)
Thoughts?
I would put regin on the third line instead of greening, but other than that you have good combos
I don't know if it's possible to say this, but our bottom six looks scary, as in we are going to have very good checking lines and a great pk
Is it October yet?
That's probably what it will look like... although not sure Regin goes on the 4th lines.. but where else would you put him unless Alfie does not come back.
He needs votes... You can't do it more than once...
I was going to post exact same thing. Vote Karlsson!!
Karlsson takes the lead!
The CBA negotiations are expected. The NHL is asking for their ideal pie-in-the-sky dream. There will be many counter-proposa ls and they will meet somewhere in the middle.
I would like to see the wait for free agency extended a bit. NHL organizations put so much time and money into developing talent only to have it leave when it matures shortly after the 3-5 or so years in the NHL it takes for a lot of good young players to come into their own.
The whole 5 year contracts thing is unlikely to go forward. I can't see the players consenting on that one. The NHL does need to fix the problem where GM's are forced to out-bid the length of each others contracts though. They're basically forced to offer 10+ years to any good 27 or so year-old star player to have any chance. I'd say the rule maybe should be you can't extend a player past the age of 35. The justification for this is that it's not fair to put teams in a position to have to give out contracts players cannot in good faith guarantee their health will hold up for. After 35 it is a serious crap-shoot whether even a star player will still be playing because of long-term health and injury risk. An argument could even be made for 34 or 33. Most good players make it to at least 32-33 but after that it gets much more murky.
In terms of contracts the value per year must be the same for every year. This way you don't have teams paying 12M a year for 2-3 years at the beginning and later being forced to trade said player without being able to recoup that money (Heatley in Ottawa). That's not fair and it stops the salary cap from working properly. Big money teams can front-load players and trade them later when their cap hit is lower. That means they really had payrolls of 80M+ in real dollars and traded that away later on. It's just another way of circumventing the cap even if it's accidental.
I think about time we had some goalie depth, including our draft picks.
For crosby right? Is it nathan mackinon who is so closely compared to crosby ? Sure shot first overall . If theres a lock out anybody could land this kid in 2014? Sucks but weird
You are SO boring.
CHIRP: edit the filter on "an a-hole" to "a SENSCHIRP READER" so it's just a whole lot better rolling off the tounge than "an SENSCHIRP READER". Lol.
Dude you cannot get upset over people minusing your post. This is the internet - you have to have thick skin.
Going after Weber is not a bad idea but I (personally) think it will cost us too much - some other team will be more desperate than we are and offer more. And no way do I offer Cowen for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3nEtK__sZU
OH AH SILFVERBERGGG
I would love Weber, but like hax said, no way we are most desperate to have him....can't imagine him wanting to be second fiddle to Karlsson either.
The reason is that Weber won't come here. An offer sheet would be matched and we don't have the parts to trade for him.
Ok lets reverse it, and I'll pose a question for you
Lets rewind to May, Nashville knows they are about to lose Suter, and they still want to be in the hunt for the cup
Well Karlsson is an RFA, so what tupe of package would Nashville need to put together to get Karlsson? Why wouldn't Nashville just trade for him
You usually post very solid comments on SensChirp, but ,you
are giving away the farm for Shea Weber. First you give Cowen, then Michalek, and 3 First Rounders ??
That is a 5 for 1 deal, and Cowen might develop to become even better than Weber !
We could use Weber, but it would cost too much !!
Yes this is my feedback on that proposed idea as well, that suggested trade is paying a ridiculous price!
If Weber wants out, as suggested perhaps because of the CBA issue he can sign a fat juicy contract elsewhere... then he would let Nashville know that is what he wants (sign and trade) and they would pretty much be forced to do this or lose him for ZILCH like what happened with Suter.
Three firsts? Plus an awesome young stay at home defenceman? Plus a top 6 forward when we are looking to ADD one?
That deal would be an unmitigated disaster and would never happen. If however he does go "on the block" I certainly expect we will look into that.
Nashville may be willing to trade him but you are in blockbuster territory and whilst the Senators do have the assets I doubt there is the desire on Weber's part to sign another contract before testing free agency.
The most realistic way we get Weber is by paying him via free agency and we will have the cap space to do it but I imagine there will be other teams out there prepared to pay him more.
You suggest that a top 6 will be easy to acquire but Murray has been saying year on year that he wants to bring one in and so far we have Guillame Latendresse. It doesn't appear as easy as you make out.
Murray hasn't been playing the "conservative penny pinching GM" at all until we decided it was a rebuild. Money was being thrown around to people like Kovalev and Gonchar and we consistently spent to the cap. It isn't Murray's money, if Melnyk won't let him spend it, he can't spend it.
Problem is, the NHL is expected to fight tooth and nail to get rid of these retarded 13 year deals that have been handed out. If Weber doesn't get something done before the new CBA, he might be 'screwed' and I use the term loosely.
http://www.toromagazine.com/sports/throwin-smoke/231c123d-9430-e494-65a2-b664c6b57b85/Nash-Cant-Handle-Heat/
So it comes down to a sign and trade then. But would Weber sign a deal with Nashville on the chance that a deal can be worked out? We have seen the ridiculous asking price for Nash stall a possible deal and I would suggest that the price for Weber would be higher.
Weber is only 26 he can sign two big contracts rather than one. 6 years and 6 years for example. Look at the deal Pronger got when he was "advanced in years".
I would love to see Weber in a sens uniform, I just don't see a way for us to make it happen. But god I hope I'm wrong.
If we want Weber I would guess this is the starting point:
Cowen, Zibenejad, Regin and a 1st
Probably the case - and that's too rich for my blood.
thats the starting point, because Rangers can then offer:
Del Zotto or Staal, Hagelin, Dubinski and a 1st
Best bet is to wait it out for Weber, if he is truly someone we want, which I don't think we need
in 3 years time we will have Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci as all big time young dmen. we need to surround them with stay at home guys in methot, boro UFA etc
Weber will be to expensive for us in a few years anyway
"He[Lehner] didn't come in with the best of attitudes, and I thought his play was very reflective of that."
"Robin has had tremendous short term success..glimps es of what he can be,,,just too much of a roller coaster"
"If he can even out that ride..has a real good chance of being what we think he can...a quality #1 guy."
Solid read. I like the summary at the end, it seems this is totally true:
"So Nash will get his trade, he’ll collect his bloated salary and he’ll play out his career in some comfortable American city and he’ll live happily ever after.
But he’ll never be mistaken for being a star."
Yes I agree that is a more realistic price tag for what might look like a sign & trade 8 year deal.
Extremely relevant comments that show you why Lehner's name is always popping up in the rumour mill. Organization was not pleased with his approach last season.
I do find it interesting that we are ready to jump on somebody for seemingly not wanting to place himself in an environment where their every move could be scrutinized and dissected. That sort of gives more ammunition for those who don't want that in the first place doesn't it.
I think we forget that the big salaries we pay these people gives them the freedom to choose where to play and the freedom to make choices that piss us off.
If Nash was earning 2 million a year (for example) and a Canadian team offered to double that I wonder if he would change his tune, but he's already got and is going to get his money and holds all the cards because of that.
Of course if he was a Russian we'd never be hearing the end of it.
I see all this as warning shots across his bow so to speak. We've already seen some very positive signs that he has adjusted his attitude and even his off season training.
My gut feeling is that he "gets it" now, and we should be very excited to see what he can do in Bingo this season. This is finally his big chance I think.
Oh and if the NHL and NHLPA don't get their shit together, Bingo hockey may be exactly what we will be watching this winter. More-so than usual we may be able to really see for ourselves what this kid is made of.
;)
I dunno... maybe because he a Canadian hockey star? Don't at least some of these guys relish the pressure of playing in their own country and hoisting a Cup for a Canadian team?
FFS if Parise and Suter have enough Minnesota pride to team up, go there and try to lead them to glory, then WTF can't a couple Canadian stars decide to team up and come to Ottawa.. or Montreal... or even Leafs land?
If someone truly is a "superstar" in their field, but they can't handle the heat of playing in an avid market, that makes them less of a star in my opinion.
go lehn
One has been in the league for 5 years and plays with Malkin, Crosby, Staal and Fleury, the other has been in the league for 3 years and already has a Norris Trophy give me a damn break
Just another stupid TSN voting poll to drive up hits
Crosby will win it, so who cares
He's eligible - has nothing to do with contracts. Greening was eligible this past season and had (of course) played more games the previous season.
This is exactly what I thought just pointless garbage to spur debate I don't pay it any mind
I mean, usually when someone wins the Norris Trophy, it means that they're the best defenceman in the league, no? So why is there a poll comparing him to someone? SMH
All of these TSN player polls are bullshit and anybody who gets uptight about them needs to relax.
Player of the year, play of the year, goal of the year - all bullshit. NHL13 cover and that sort of stuff, all crap.
People can't take fan and team loyalties out of the equation when voting.
How many of us would vote for a Leaf goal or player as play of the year (not that that's likely to happen of course).
It is no reflection on anything other than fan loyalty, and no real reflection on that either.
Ok thanks Hax
The problem is we are fans and therefore not diss-passionate about the situation. We struggle with the concept that for some of these guys it's just a job.
Don't forget that Parise and Suter got VERY well paid to go to Minnesota, they didn't go there for the love of the logo alone. they can spin that anyway they want but if Minnesota slice three million a year off the deal do you think they still go there?
So what if Nash is Canadian, why should that mean he has to be desperate to play in a Canadian market. Some people love the idea, some don't. I don't see it as something to get worked up about.
If he doesn't want to play for the senators, fuck him and let's go get players who do. That's why Latendresse gets my vote, the guy seems primed to be here.
Not desperate but at least *willing*. And yeah if players don't want to come here then f**k'em! That's not the point though.
Well said.
Honestly, I don't listen to anything from TSN anymore and especially CBC it's all bs
#Sens fans: This month we will introduce a series of articles on our website, written by guest contributors from the Ottawa online community
Chirp! Tell me you are all over that!
Jesus - don't tell Zach.
Maybe ZZR will do a profile piece on 9MM. Hahahaha.
Believe I'm up first.
I would love that actually
Just to see a piece longer than 30 words that explains why Michalek sucks so much. basically we have heard the following reasons:
1- All he does is score in meaningless games and empty netters (disproven)
2- He cost us the playoffs because of a penalty in Game 6 (sure he cost us game 6 but beyond that?)
Hey Zipper want to do that? come up with an actual article(chirp of the week) explaining, perhaps with facts/stats, why Michalek sucks and why he should only be a 3rd line guy making 2 million a year
Great news, hopefully you get some really good exposure from that. Can't wait to see what you came up with.
We are basically asking him to be something he isn't. I think Michalek has the potential to be a GREAT second line winger but because of the make up of our team he is pressed into first line duties.
Fisher would have been (along with Jordan Staal) the best 3rd line centre in the league but we had to have him play 2nd line most of the time and he wasn't always suited to that role.
I would like to see more from Michalek but how much more we could fairly expect from him is a mystery to me. He's quick, he works hard, battles in front of the net and he scores those dirty goals every team needs. I see him as more of a Hartnell/Zetter burg type winger than a Kovalchuk winger and we are foolish to ask players to be something they are not. We don't expect Gonchar to be a defensive powerhouse and we shouldn't expect Michalek to be an elite sniper.
I've also never got the issue with ENG. Coaches put those forwards out there who will help protect the lead by winning puck battles. I've always seen it as a plus that Michalek is out there in those situations, not a negative.
Don Brennan will do a piece of why Erik Karlsson is actually a terrible player.
I agree and I think its pretty impressive that a 2nd line guy can jump into a 1st line role and pot 30+ goals, something some 1st line guys have toruble doing, especially this past year
I'd like to keep expectations in check haha. It's nothing special but definitely an exciting opportunity.
Bingo.
If we somehow have a team in 2-3 years where MM9 is on our second line (i.e. we have two better wingers on the first line) then our team is really, really good. Similar when we had Fisher where if we had two other centers that were better, leaving Fisher on the third line, then we'd have been really, really deep down the middle.
DING DING DING
We have a winner...I have been saying this for at least the last season or 2....and typically getting torn apart on here.
To play devil's advocate, I can think of a lot of surly, head-case goalies that have been near elite or even winners: Belfour, Roy, Hextall (Conn Smythe), Emery for us was a wild child all the way to the Cup finals.
Sometimes, like Jean Chrétien used to say, pepper on the steak is good. Lehnzies has shown us he can win and would it really hurt the Senators to have a little pizzazz?
All those guys found some sort of balance between being surly and being just too good to care if they're surly or not. (Some longer than others)
I'm sure the org loves that Lehner is passionate and confident but he needs to (and seems to have) find a way to be "himself" but still put in the work.
What is the "player revenue share"? Is this what is used to determine the salary cap? If so, reducing it would mean a lower cap, correct?
I believe you are right. I also heard that every percentage point is millions or dollars.
Here's how I figure:
Cap hit 70 million/minimum 54million = average 62mil per team. Times 30 teams = 1.86billion$ is the players' share. Since that represents 57%, total hockey related revenue last year would've been 3.26 billion%. So each %age point is 32.6 million or a little more than 1million$ per team on cap hit.
Is players' share were to go to 50% cap hit would be 62-63 million and floor 46-47 million (although the current spread of 16 million might also change...)