No word on who will be there when the Senators make their pitch but it's safe to assume that both Bryan and Tim Murray will be involved in the process. Both guys have excellent track record of recruiting NCAA talent.
Will continue to update this situation as information becomes available.
_____________________________________________________________
Prior to last night's Development Camp scrimmage, I had the opportunity to attend a roundtable discussion with Ottawa Senators assistant coach Dave Cameron and Binghamton Senators assistant Steve Stirling.
Topics were wide ranging as approximately 15 fans took advantage of the chance to pepper the two brilliant hockey minds with a wide variety of questions. A couple things jumped out at me during the discussion that I wanted to share with the readers.
- First question of the day was for Dave Cameron and is the one that is on every fans mind right now, what is Alfie going to do? Cameron stressed that they hadn’t received any indication one way or the other but he did say, “I think he comes back. He was just too good last year to stop now.”
- Cameron was asked a question on what the team needs heading into next season and no surprise, he talked about another top six forward and a replacement for Filip Kuba.
- Both Stirling and Cameron were asked about exactly what went wrong with Nikita Filatov last season. They were quick to emphasize that with Filatov, it had nothing to do with talent. He had all the skill in the world but according to both guys, just didn’t realize how hard it was to be an NHL pro. “You have to bring it every day,” Cameron explained. Stirling talked briefly about Filatov’s demotion to Bingo and said that again, skill wasn’t the problem during his AHL stint. He was sent there to work on the defensive side of his game, away from the puck, and just didn’t seem willing to put the work in. Both guys seemed optimistic that if he ever develops that “pro attitude” he can still be a good player in the NHL.
- There were a couple questions posed to Steve Stirling about the challenges of managing young talent in the AHL and in particular, in the city of Binghamton. Stirling talked about just how big of a culture shock it is for some of the European guys coming over and the importance of finding ways to manage your time away from the rink. Stirling referenced both Robin Lehner and Andre Petersson as guys that struggled with that adjustment.
- Stirling talked at length about some of the prospects in Binghamton that he feels are ready to take their game to the next level. He emphasized guys like Borowiecki, Gryba, Hoffman and Wiercioch as guys that “are pros in every aspect of their lives.” Stirling talked about the fact that many guys down there have the talent but may not be ready for the mental grind that is involved at the NHL level.
- Just before the session came to an end, I was able to sneak in a question about Justin Schultz. Cameron provided some details of the current situation and explained that the Sens were very interested and could offer him a spot in the line up right now. While Cameron said he hadn’t seen Schultz play first hand, “the hype is apparently justified.” Cameron closed with, “we’re going to make our pitch, fingers crossed.” Ottawa will make their pitch to Schultz today in Toronto.
It was, particularly, interesting to hear about who Stirling feels is most ready to make the jump, or, at least, has the right mind-set.
I hope we get the last crack at Schultz, that always works in Shakespeare. I would imagine by end of day or tomorrow at the latest he would have made up his mind as to who he will sign with on Canada Day. I wonder when we might hear about what his decision is, does he have to wait until July 1 to say anything or might we find out sooner?
did we ever end up qualifying filatov? don't expect him to be back, but always good to hang on to the rights.
also, read on spectors hockey that latendresse is looking to sign in eastern Canada if he won't stay in minnesota. also adds that if he's healthy he could be a 30 goal kind of guy. any thoughts on taking a run at him if we miss out on some of the bigger names? a bit of a gamble but a lot less expensive...
Yep, I believe they did.
WTF? What is the point? Retire on top Marty!
Very odd
Should make Ottawa/Los Angeles/Vancouv er move quicker in terms of their tradeable assets
I hope Brodeur doesn't go to the leafs, just because I don't want his image tainted
That being said if brodeur leaves one would imagine New Jersey would be gung ho on going after Luongo especially if Parise walks
Don't get why...? He should just retire a Devil, because he's been one of the faces of that franchise for as long as I could remember... It's like Sid going to any other team-- he was destined to be a Penguin... Meh, this should be pretty interesting.
definitely better to be one of the last teams presenting because at the beginning of the process Shultz may have had things in his head that he was looking for but after hearing a couple pitches may have realized there are things he wants that he didnt even realize were important to him previously.
if the Murray's play their cards right and it seems that they typically do with College signings, they'll start with " so Justin, we understand that you've met with some other organgizations to hear them out, we have the flexibility to satisfy your needs, what are some of things that you've heard that you find appealing?"
ic, well we can offer you the following...
Best case scenario: Foligno continues to improve but our top 6 is so good he ends up a top 3rd liner in the league.
Second best: Foligno steps up and takes the second line role.
Third best: Foligno is part of a package that lands us a legit top 3 winger.
Love Foligno, love the way he plays, love his potential but even I will admit his development is a bit slower than I'd like. No reason that can't change of course - he's still young.
And for knocking out Heatley he belongs in the Sens hall of fame regardless of anything else he does.
I know.... after 19 years in Jersey, he must be the longest standing player to stay with the same team right now? I always respected Marty and he is without a doubt one of the best goaltenders who ever lived. Why not cap off a legendary career by retiring having only served with one team?
Not enough players do that nowadays... I just don't get it. Mind boggling.
it really seems that we are in a very delicate area right now with regards to, way too many players especailly of the bottom 6 variety, and prospects wanting the chance to prove themselves:
-returning players from last year, including the extra forwards sitting, Butler, Dawg, Konopka, and injuries coming back, Regin, Winchester
-Many forwards deserving af a shot at NHL spot, Hoffman, Peterson, Silvfer, for sure, and then longshots, Stone, MZ, etc.
- Adding a top 6 as well
Realistically, I do not see us adding a top 6 ie Nash, Ryan.
Therefore PAP may be an option, or why not take a run at a Latendresse or a Mueller.
But then again that leaves us with way too many forwards.
No doubt that BM has some feelers out there on some of our forwards, I am hoping he pulls the trigger on some of them so we can then go to the next step in getting Spezza his must deserved linemate.
Difficulty is which ones do we give up on, that will yeild us a decent return?
Foligno - torn on him b/c I do believe he is moving in the right direction and is stillyoung
Z Smith - torn on him b/c when not injured he brings many dimensions to his game
- Butler/DaCosta - wont yeild us anything
- Condra - wont yeild much, and still upside
So to me it is a very difficult area, but we must unload some forwards to free up some space
Suggestions?
http://spectorshockey.net/blog/nhl-evening-rumor-update-june-28-2012/
based on this I say do it even if we did grab up Nash or Ryan.
fingers crossed for shultz!
THIS. WTF come on guys we are bursting at the seams with bottom six talent!
Agreed, we have too many, who do we give up on, and move out, is the question?
I still think something like my threeway idea makes sense
I know they just picked up Lindback, but Tamps has to be an interesting landing spot for him
Nice sunny pre-retirement
Lindback in the fold to eat some games up to keep him Healthy and fresh
Lecavalier and St.Louis there to keep him company on the seperatist debate vs Yzermand and Stamkos
Thats where I'm selling my services if I'm Brodeur
Bishop to Boston(really only makes sense as they love goalie depth)
Peverly to Chicago(they want another quality Center)
Hjarlmsson to Ottawa(obvious why)
I am sure there are a few picks that would have to go to various teams as well. maybe 2 to boston, 3rd to us, 4th to Chicago??
Would be awesome to see a relatively big three way deal.
they have the most expensive d core ever haha
Bouwmeester 6.8
Wideman 5.2
Giordano 4.02
Babchuck 2.5
Buler 1.25
Sarich 2
Smith .775 (one way deal)
brodie ELC 0.741 (two way)
so for 7 dmen they have $22.545 million lol wow
I was thinking that Luongo would end up in Tampa but then they went and got Lindback.
If he becomes a UFA.. I see Burke changing his focus from Luongo to Brodeur and I would hate to see him there.
But at this point in his career.. I assume he would want to go to a team that is near/or is a contender.
I see Detroit & Chicago as possible destinations. Detroit's D will be weaker this year.. and Chicago's goaltender would greatly improve with Brodeur.
July 1st will be interesting.
I don't like a Bishop for Hjarmalsson move. Hjarmalsson is awesome but Bishop is a huge asset for us. You don't give up a huge asset like that for a team trying to rid themselves of a player for cap purposes
Thats why an excess forward like a Smith etc is better suited for that deal.
If we do give up Bishop, I would much rather then give up something more to get an additional piece back
Hell make a huge deal and throw a few other things there way for Kane(if he can smarten up)
Add our 2013 first to Chicago, Weircoch + someone else.
Would love kane, but Lehner would have to be a part of that package
speaking of goalies..
ON LUONGO
Even if you someohow believe Luongo is good value for his cap hit, surely you must think it will become an achor at some point. These long term goalie contracts are ridiculous.
I truly believe we are entering an era where very few goalies will have staying power.
One year the guy is on top, the next year he's a complete bum...it's the nature of the position based on the fickle nature of the goalie breed and the quality of scouting to exploit weaknesses.
Granted there are exceptions but choosing them is going to become increasingly more difficultLook at a guy like Fluery...he pretty much sucked in the playoffs last year (I do expect him to bounce back)
Tim Thomas went from hero to villain in one short summer (extentuating circumstances obviously)
Carey Price was outplayed by Halak, only to regain form after Halaks' departure,
Bryzgalov was a sure thing heading into Philly but looked ordinary on most nights and downright awful on others.
Elliot - somehow tranisitioned from should not be in the NHL to one of the best records last year.
Ultimately, a goalies success can hinge on so many factors including the players in front of him and the systems used that locking up large amounts of money for extended periods of times seems to be one hell of a gamble.
I think the answer lies in replenshing your goalie prospect cuboard and limitting contracts to 3 years.
Simple...
Foligno
Regin
Condra
Greening
Butler
Nothing special about these guys, get rid of any of em for a serviceable D man who can play with Karlsson.
I still think Luongo is going to Toronto.
I would rather trade Bishop for Hjalmersson than Smith, though I know it doesn't necessarily make sense from a depth perspective.
I'm really excited by Hoffman's showing last night and hope PM can find room for him this year on the NHL roster.
Luongo aint going to Toronto, Burke doesnt want to pay for him.
I agree with you on the volatility of goaltending, so that being said why on earth did Vancouver sign him to a 12 year contract lol..their own fault
Its their mess because they went out of the box to give him the C on his jersey, then give him the contract, then strip him of his C
Regardless of value and who is better etc etc, Vancouver are giving themselves a black eye right now. If schneider stumbles at all, not many goalies will want to go to that zoo and graveyard
You are probably right which would make the first half pretty much impossible...un less somehow they like one of Bostons prospects...and someone has something Boston wants.
hmm I think I know why we rarely see three way deals lmao
More of a circus, Van is not at all a goalie graveyard (see Ottawa)
Interesting,
how about a couple of them with Bishop for one of the top 3/4 D,
that may have some potential?
Ever hear of a guy named Edler?
Hamhuis is not bad also
Bieksa?
He would be bottom pairing in Vancouver
Easy, go to Vancouver who are serious Cup contenders and be in his home province with his parents being season ticket holders...
Plus Vancouver is much more appealing than Ottawa for young adults.
Edler is far from being a Karlsson, if Shultz turns out to be anything similar to Karlsson (which he's rumoured to be) Edler will very quickly become the #2.
Bieksa is not a top pairing D-man, thats funny. He's playing one because they dont have anyone else right now.
Its like Kuba or Gonchar in the top pairing...
Turris?
Let's save the sour grapes for AFTER he breaks our hearts. After!
Turris is a COMPLETELY different situation.
Neither does Florida, and those are the only teams still left in that race. As I said, i think he ends up in Toronto.
My favorite part about these "pitches" is the rumors and feelings fans automatically assume will win a pitch. So far we have heard (in no particular order)
1- His parents are seaosn ticket holders in Vancouver, therefore he will go there
2- He is best friends with gardiner and they played together, so for sure he will go to Toronto
3- He is a young adult and wants a good city/bar scene so he will go to vancouver/toron to/NY over Edm and Ott
4- He wants a top 4 role therefor its between Ottawa and Edmonton
5- Toronto has already tampered, so its assumed he will go there
6- Edmonton can seel them on being young and ebing the go to guy, so for sure he will go there
7- He is compared to karlsson, therefore he has to be #1 somewhere which means only Vancouver or Edmonton are options
8- He is from Vancouver so he will only want to play on the west coast, so only Vancouver or Edmonton
Jesus. You know the saying assumptions are made to make certain of the uncertainty. Well thats ums it up best
Why don't we just let him listen to the pitches and hope for the best. Stop coming up with these unfounded ideas (some may be true, but cummon now)
Threeways ALWAYS make sense
Burkey says it like it is, the interview probably went like this...
Agency: Welcome Mr. Burke, Justin is ready to ....
Burke: Where's Justin?
Agency: Follow me...
Burke: ...
In the boardroom:
Agency: Ok Mr. Burke, if you would have a seat we will...
Burke doesnt sit
Burke: Toronto is the best market for you, no question, the biggest Canadian market bar none, we can make you a top pairing D-Man right away. We got rid of Schenn to make room for you.
Shultz: Is that a guarantee? top D man right away.
Burke: Of course, I dont fuck around, if I tell you your going to be top 2, you'll be top 2. Do you wanna go to Ottawa and be behind Karlsson for the next 10 years?
Shultz: I...
Burke: Listen, if you wanna play in a hockey market and want to bring your parents in, we'll give them season tickets, no worries...(smirk)
Agency: Ok thats all the time we have Mr. Burke.
Burke leaves.
It's ok, when it's in a threeway ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7gwX7rjOw&feature=fvwrel
Toronto pulled out of the process when Burke noticed Schultz was wearing a baseball cap
Wheres the fun in that? you grumpy today?
And some of those reasons will play a HUGE role in where he goes...
You cant just dismiss them. Why else would he go anywhere if not for reasons.
Its still not ok, but its funny.
huh
and not the interview with Murray
Agency - "please have a seat Mr. Murray
Murray - "fine thanks and I will have a coffee please"
Murray- "Hi Justin let me lay out your options. Come play with the Senators, and be part of a ride that will win you the Stanley Cup in three years, where you have the potential of playing with a Norris Cup winner
or
Go to the laffing stock of the league who has not won in 45 years, and managed to destroy many a yound defensemans career,
Thank you, and please let us know when you have made your decision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VUFQfscE1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Q71Jp9v78
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgoEkdkB2CQ
It was rumoured that Toronto was given a period of time at the draft by Anaheim to talk to Schultz.. and nothing happened. TSN could not get confirmation on that report however.
I think if it was a slam dunk.. then he would have just not bothered going through the process.
Some of them have huge merit but for you and I quote "Plus Vancouver is much more appealing than Ottawa for young adults."
are you kidding me. When it comes to playing hockey that is actually gunna cross his mind? And play a large factor? No
Here is his main concern
"I have all the control in where I go, but I know I am maxed out due to the ELC rules in the current CBA. I need to find me a place that best suits my skills and will allow me to provide the best results in my two year audition to the NHL. At which point I am no longer bound by the CBA and I can command as much money as the market decides"
Thats what he is thinking. Vancouver over Ottawa cause of night life is not important. getting playing time where he can score loads of pts, defend well and contribute in order to hti the next jackpot is whats important to him. Because clearly he is a guy who listens to agents closely and we all know what agents have at the top of their mind
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The point is these rumors are ridiculous.
Nobody knows shit but everyone talks like they do. All these stupid twitter updates from douche bags.
Have you noticed how tight lipped GM's are now a days. The NHL clearly told them to stop spreading shit around for tampering purposes. Very single gm when being interviewed never says a word or even a hint.
It's the same with Nash. Everything is all B.S created by twitter losers and TSN in order to ceate hype for them. Have you noticed they've been breKing viewrship records over the past couple years for events like TradeCentre when nothing even happends?? They know nothing will happen but they keep throwing out all the biggest names to create hype
Everything we have heard is a rumor. It isn't true! Just wait for accurate info
Spector is reporting that Calgary may be entertaining the idea of trading JBouw for a scoring-type forward. While Schultz may be the (far) cheaper option, what about putting together a package of that includes some of our cheaper unproven "scorers" (read Butler, Condra, Foligno et. al.) and prospects for a proven D-man that would not only replace Kuba, but would be an upgrade (last year's stats notwithstanding ). Sure his contract is monolithic, but his trade value is at an all-time low, and he might even be gettable without including any of the pieces that are the cornerstones of our pitch for Nash.
Hypothetical, and far-fetched, but thoughts?
**UPDATED NHL NEWS**Source: Penguins officials believe they have inside track on Parise - Crosby will call Sunday Devils/Flyers/S abres in it
They will want something better than Butler, Condra or Foligno - none of whom accurately fit the description of a scoring type forward.
again clearly a false rumor because as Burke loves to say, talking about a player on under contract to another team is not allowed
so the Penguins should not have any reason to believe "they have the inside track"
Also after trading Michalek, I really do want penguins to spend their cap space on Parise and watch Suter go to Detroit
That defense is abysmal
Considering they took steen and hagman for Phaneuf who knows with that club
They may consider greening a scoring forward and at that price along with a fringe prospect I'd do it 100%
Some of them have huge merit but for you and I quote "Plus Vancouver is much more appealing than Ottawa for young adults."
are you kidding me. When it comes to playing hockey that is actually gunna cross his mind? And play a large factor? No
Here is his main concern
"I have all the control in where I go, but I know I am maxed out due to the ELC rules in the current CBA. I need to find me a place that best suits my skills and will allow me to provide the best results in my two year audition to the NHL. At which point I am no longer bound by the CBA and I can command as much money as the market decides"
Thats what he is thinking. Vancouver over Ottawa cause of night life is not important. getting playing time where he can score loads of pts, defend well and contribute in order to hti the next jackpot is whats important to him. Because clearly he is a guy who listens to agents closely and we all know what agents have at the top of their mind
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I disagree,
If you were offered a job anywhere in N.A would you not do some research on the city itself? He may not take the nightlife in to serious consideration but that plays apart in how a particular city is good or bad to live in. Especially for a young multimillionair e who will be partying on a consistent basis with his teammates.
I guarantee every one of the GM's will take time to sell their respective city's to the kid. GUARNTEED! It's a huge part of the decision for very free agent. You don't just up and move to any city without doing some due diligence. Now, if a certain team is offering 500K a year more then another you will probably disregard all the other info as who gives a rats ass about the city at that point but in his case everyone will be offering the max
Is he coming to the sens?
its about the $$ and making it where he can get more on the next contract
the biggest partier in the NHL in the last 5 years (ray emery) enjoyed ottawa so I think we are ok in that perspective
Point taken. Carry on.....
It was discussed above briefly.
Nobody said its was true, they are rumors, nothing is true, everything is permitted.
And this is why I don't post often. It involves paying attention....
Goalie market is officially saturated, good luck unloading Luongo lol... pretty expensive backup if you ask me.
i don t post often on here because if some don t agree with what you say they jump on you,its suppost to be a fun place to chat about hockey,everybod y is entitled to there own opinion.most are nice on here but you always get the odd ass.
Nicky's made strides man and looked unbelievable in the playoffs.
I wouldn't mine PA, I think he'd be a terrific fit but the guys going to want to cash in. Not worth more than ~4M imo, I'd rather solve the top 6 problem in-house.
Just my 2 cents
Yes! Love the Assassins Creed reference....
You have to take certain people with a grain of salt, but it's a forum. People come here to debate opinions and usually if someone gets out of hand Senschirp takes care of it.
overall it is a great forum with many more valuable opinions than not,
opinions are never right or wrong, they are only ideas, and mostly only time will tell what is right or not.
Nothing wrong with the odd banter, and really no major long term injuries as a result.
Post yout thoughts, some will like them some will not.
Wasn't trying to jump on anyone, was just answering the person's question.
Personally, I find there's a lot of healthy debate on here and people GENERALLY only get jumped on when they support their opinions with incorrect facts or statements. Aside from that we all enjoy hearing other people's opinions.
Not enough strides, and I dont get where you think he was unbelievable?
.........................................G A P +- PIM PPG SHG S S% Shifts TOI
Apr 26 '12 OTT @ NYR 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 1 0.0 17 14:09
Apr 23 '12 NYR @ OTT 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 4 0.0 21 14:03
Apr 21 '12 OTT @ NYR 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0.0 22 16:16
Apr 18 '12 NYR @ OTT 0 1 1 0 4 0 0 3 0.0 23 14:45
Apr 16 '12 NYR @ OTT 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 3 0.0 20 15:12
Apr 14 '12 OTT @ NYR 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 3 33.3 22 15:07
Apr 12 '12 OTT @ NYR 0 1 1 -1 0 0 0 0 22 16:38
Pretty terrible performance I would say. I dont care what else he "brings to the game"....bottom line is 1 goal in 7 games...aint gonna cut it.
and if your getting too excited @dirtysweet takes care of it
its all good,like i said most are nice on here,i don t expect everyone to agree with me,but just don t be nasty about it.but its mostley a fun discussion on here.cheers
If it comes down to really Toronto, Ottawa, and Vancouver pitching for Schultz, offering the SAME amount of money... guaranteed he's picking one of Vancouver or Toronto. I'd guess Vancouver, since it's absolutely beautiful during off season months, and there's just so much to do (plus close to the Rockies, golf courses, etc.)
We have a great organizational, but we can't control where we're situated. We COULD be worse... I mean playing in the O isn't as bad.. as say honestly, who wants to play hockey in the desert (PHX) or in a ghost town (BUF)?
No it's not the bright lights of NY, Mtl, Tor.. but it's not exactly backwoods either.
Get off the statsheet for a second and watch the games. When Foligno is named the #1 scorer on the team then you can tear apart his lack of goalscoring, but he's not even expected to be top 4 right now so give it a break.
We get it, you think he's not good enough and can't see the huge improvements he's made in his game over the years.
And this is why your name is 'IDontKnowAnyth ingAboutHockey' . You fail to look past anything besides the major statistics - Goals, Assists, TOI, Points, +/-, etc.
Anyone who actually watched the 7 games versus NYR this year could see what Nicky did out there and the VALUABLE contributions he made to the team game. I'm not even going to bother telling you what they were though, because they weren't necessarily goals or assits.
This isn't baseball...ther e is more to the game than statistics. If Moneyball was based on a hockey GM, there wouldn't have been a movie...or a franchise left in that city.
And did he not leave vancouver (hometown) to go play college in Wisconsin?
He clearly could have played in the WHL, being a 2nd round pick probably had his choice of schools to go to also, yet chose Wisconsin!!
Wisconsin have a great hockey program, so clearly he values winning, and hockey over being in a cool city to spend money/meat girls
We need a 30-30 Guy at least...not a 20-45 Guy...Spezza is already our playmaker
Sometimes I wonder why people call themselves "Sens fans"... I swear sometimes it feels like these guys would rather scrap every player on the team and replace them with new faces.
I agree
If we strike out on Nash/Ryan then stick to the original plan, promote from within and wait for the first "contending" team to struggle in the regular season and try and poach their star forward (similar to what anaheim almost did with Ryan last year)
options: Chicago (Kane), Colorado (Duchene), St.Louis (Oshie), San Jose (Havlat/CloweUF A), or even Los Angeles (Brown)
Why the hell would I look past it when its all that matetrs!
Foligno was a top 6 player for us this past year, was supposed to have made great strides according to some of you...did he improve his numbers in the sseason sure, who wouldnt playing on the 2nd line with Alfie and playing on the PP with EK65, Spezza and Alfie.
During the playoffs, where he played 2nd line. 1 goal in 7 games.
Take you head out of your asses and stop with the "he contributes in other ways" BS, he's supposed to score goals on the 2nd line, you all say he should be the winger on the 2nd line then he should play like one.
Stop using excuses like "contribution" or "does other things good" He's a 2nd line winger. He's supposed to score.
out of 82 games I would say maybe 30 of them were on a 2nd line
As for the playoffs, considering Spezza led our team with 2 goals (in one game) then Foligno at least contributing one goal is somewhat good
Our whole offense dried up and Foligno played well
Don't mix his playoff performance with his regular season one as well
Was Foligno unbelievable for you in the playoffs?
Answer me that...
Stop using excuses like "contribution" or "does other things good" He's a 2nd line winger. He's supposed to score.
-------------------------------------------------
A bit contradicting you think... You're saying that Foligno is supposed to only be judged by his scoresheet... but when it comes to your little sweet Nash, you can pull a blind eye dispite your claim that he's in the top 5 in the entire league (and he's only averaged 60pts a season)... remember you said only stats count, not the rest of the 'garbage'. Im sorry but according to your criteria (stats only) his 60pt average doesnt even come close to your top 5 player claim.
(no dissing Nash here - just statings how Tooks doesnt make any sense)
You are cranky pants today. By no means is this "clearly a false rumor", no team spokesperson officially came out and said they would do something like this, but someone got the inside scoop.
"Clearly" a lot of teams have plans to jump on various UFAs in such a manner.
Wait until Sunday night when you watch on TSN Parise talking about Sid calling him up and convincing him to join the Pens.
He's not an Ottawa Senator or somebody that Ottawa would pursue ?
Probably a major topic on other blogs though.
Thats exactly my point, we are pushing players into position that they are nto rdy for. Looking at Foligno's stats show me that he scored more than half of his points on the 3rd line this season, when playing 14 minutes or less. When playing over 16+ minutes he has very few points.
All I'm saying is according to many here he is 2nd line material, clearly his stats dont reflect that and he has had plentu of chances to show it.
-------------------------------------------------
A bit contradicting you think... You're saying that Foligno is supposed to only be judged by his scoresheet... but when it comes to your little sweet Nash, you can pull a blind eye dispite your claim that he's in the top 5 in the entire league (and he's only averaged 60pts a season)... remember you said only stats count, not the rest of the 'garbage'. Im sorry but according to your criteria (stats only) his 60pt average doesnt even come close to your top 5 player claim.
(no dissing Nash here - just statings how Tooks doesnt make any sense)
You make no sense, put Nash on a playoff team and we'll see how many points he puts up, you can bet its gonna be more than 60.
Agreed. Arguing that: in lieu of points, Foligno contributes a lot of positives off the scoresheet is really a stronger argument for him remaining in the bottom 6. Obviously for a bottom six player the "intangibles" are more important measures of impact than points because they are in energy or defensive roles, but in a top six role, you are expected to produce goals/points and he didn't - even given that he had ample opportunity to do so.
ahh the banter I was talking about....
Tooks he is all of 24 playing for the most part 3rd line on the Sens,
He has improved every year he has played, and showing more signs that he will continue to improve.
47 points in 82 games as a third line with minimum PP minutes is actually very good.
So given that again he is only 24, and continuing to improve we can only deduce that he will continue to improve. To what limit is the only real question, what can he achieve in a full year on the 2nd line?
So I say wake up, and see what this kid has done, and maybe has the potential to become.
I never said he was, he's young and came in halfway, but yes in the playoffs he sucked. 1 goal dont cut it. (alot of guys sucked in the playoffs)
I guess that's the sort of contract Foligno will want... I'd rather have Foligno than Downie, though.
but foligno sucks and deserves under 2 mill cause he is bottom 6
(i kid i kid)
Does he suck as a player? Or just sucked during the playoffs?
Also, is there anyone on the sens you *do* like?
I feel like I'm not going to come out of Sunday satisfied.
He's played much more 2nd line than you think, he just didnt do much while there and He mostly plays PP2 so atleast 1 minute/50sec per PP, thats not minimal.
Your turn to answer the question that started all of this...
Was Foligno unbelievable for you in the playoffs...
Sounds like they put their best foot forward. Good to see. :)
I'll see your Taylor Hall and raise you a Jason Spezza
I wonder if a guy like Wade Redden is in play for some of the lower cap teams?
You make no sense, put Nash on a playoff team and we'll see how many points he puts up, you can bet its gonna be more than 60.
------------------------------------------------------
Hey your words... nothing else counts only actual stats... fess up to your word
Other than Quick, Richards, Brown, Doughty and a few more Kings... there were a lot of players that were NOT unbelievable!
Again you are wrong, he played mostly as a 3rd line winger last year, and when he did play with Turris and Alfie, I thought that the line was one of their better ones. Still not sure why that was broken up.
And NO he did not get a minute on the powerplay.
Spezza, Alfie, Turris, MM9, Greening got most of the PP time with whomever was playing top 6 at the time
ie Butler, Filatov, even Neil got in there, but Foligno got minimal PP time.
Tookie you're completely wrong here. The 2nd line only played well this year when Foligno was on it. Look at the games he was there vs when he was put bottom 6. Your hate on for Foligno, along with your mood today is really not adding anything here.
Those are my words, Foligno is on a playoff team...
Nash isnt, cant compare oranges to apples.
I've proven to you otherwise, read above, more than half his points come from the 3rd line or when playing less than 20 shifts and 14 minutes. Check NHL.com for more details.
The 2nd line was playing well cuz of Alfie...thats it, Turris helped a bit when he came in but he's got a gimme for obvious circumstances.
but you can compare oranges to bananas
Please do.
Thank you and I will stop now. This should suffice in shutting them up.
Sure man, enjoy your solitary throne today, you obviously aren't listening to EVERYONE ELSE who is telling you how wrong and full of it you are.
Our 2nd line was best when he was on it, simple as that. There are more than just goals and assists in a hockey game, but obviously that means nothing to you. I think the fact you changed back to your name now, shows you're just being an ass for the hell of it again.
LOL... The first thing I picture is a child sticking fingers in their ears repeating... No Nash... different for Nash... No Nash... Different for Nash...
Just for arguments sake. This was the original comment that sparked the Foligno debate. All the guy was saying is if we are so aggressive going after nash/ryan/PA does this mean that the sens organization ISN'T convinced of Foligno ability to fit into top 6
then ppl jumped on him for his "unbelievable" comment
then chaos ensued
All he/we are saying is that yes we believe Folingo can play top 6, and his growth is pointing to his ability to hold that spot
If we get Nash, technically Foligno can still be top 6 if he outperforms silfverberg/sto ne/MZ etc
HE will get his chance and many on here think he has what it takes to be an effective 2nd line player
Well said
Do you think that, just maybe, the Rangers defense had something to do with the lack of goal scoring by the Sens in rd 1? They blocked a hell of a lot of shots.. and standing behind them is basically one of the best goaltenders in the NHL...
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1204973
Foligno was tied for 113th overall in points this year. 6x30 is 180, why is this so hard for you to understand.
Would have thought Paul McLean would have gone to that meeting.. but I guess they needed some 'management eyes' at the Dev camp. Spezza was a given.. since he's in Toronto anyway.
100% agree
ok new topic
Will we get Rick Nash or Justin Schultz?
But... but... you have to seperate the playoff teams from the non-playoff teams.... so so... that so so would mean 6x16 (96)... then then you have to seperate different coaching styles so 96 x.3 (31)... so so 113th when only 31 top 6 spots count... well well.. that would just put him in good on the 4th line... see apples to apples...
**rolls eyes***
same here -- tired of this--- last post on this subject for me
Tim Thomas will get traded before Redden, because Redden is still 6 million of cash outlay
Tim Thomas will create a 5 mill cap hit, but can be suspended meaning they don't have to pay for him
That benefit alone I would imagien is probably worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder to a team like NYI or FLA
Would love to say we have a shot for Justin... but my gut says he's Edmonton bound.
Nash... I think we have a shot, and if we do get him for a reasonable cost, I'd be happy with it... but deep down inside I would like to see how Zbad develops next year before dealing him
pulled from his grantland contribution
Free agency is a national holiday in Canada
No really, it is. Unlike the NHL trade deadline, for which everyone in Canada just fakes sick to get the day off, the first day of unrestricted free agency is an actual Canadian holiday. July 1 is Canada Day, which is essentially the same thing as Independence Day in the United States, except we don’t pass out after drinking four light beers.
More likely to get Nash I think, Schultz is going to Van City or TOR. He doesnt want to come here and possibly be #3 behind Karlsson and Cowen.
Back in 2008, the Ducks took a gamble on the then 6-1, 160-pound Schultz, playing with the Westside Warriors in the British Columbia Junior Hockey League. The Ducks saw past the size deficiency, selecting him 43rd overall in the 2008 entry draft, held at Scotiabank Place. Interestingly enough, the Senators held the 42nd selection, opting for Patrick Wiercioch, another lanky defenceman from B.C. The Senators are still waiting for Wiercioch to blossom into an everyday NHL defenceman.
So compare Schultz to weircoch now...See teams jumping at the chance to trade for weircoch?
Thats a great comparable, and shows the actual development curve of Schultz
Players with enough talent have always been able to manipulate situations. Eric Lindros thumbed his nose at Quebec, forcing the trade mess which landed him in Philadelphia. Bryan Berard didn’t like the situation in the early days of the Senators, prompting the deal which brought Wade Redden to Ottawa. Need we re-visit Alexei Yashin? Last fall, Kyle Turris tried to wait out Phoenix in a contract stalemate, eventually receiving his wish by being traded to the Senators.
I think credit has to go to Eugene Melnyk for bringing stability to the franchise. He stuck with Bryan Murray through some rough patches and now the Sens are one of the better options for players in the league.
Bryan Murray gained respect with the way he dealt with Fisher too.
Fair enough, but I think the big difference is that Schultz dominated in college hockey. That not at the same level as the AHL. Also prior to Weircioch leaving college, he was quite dominant there too. Not to mention the whole puck in the throat thing.
Yeah, as far as beating topics to death is concerned, everyone seems to be in mid-season form...
I like your topic better. I, honestly, think we have a better chance at Nash than Schultz. And I base this on absolutely nothing.
BAM... do the math IKNOWNOTHINGABO UTHOCKEY!!!
valid point, but many prospects after spending 4 years in NCAA are ready for NHL. Also Schultz is now 22 compared to Weircoch when he left
As for the puck in throat, I don't believe that has tsunted his development much. He had already had 1 or 2 years in the AHL where he hadn't really stood out.
Cowen came into his AHL team and led them in the Calder Cup run
SensChirp and Tookie are the same person.
wwwoooohhhh!!!! Tookie!
wait a minute... why are you reneging on our wager now, and changing you name back to Tooks?
who said you can change the name now?
it was originally for an full year, then we all all agreed until the season that started that you keep the IKNOWNOTHINGABO UTHOCKEY.
oh and this has not been beat to a pulp yet...
let me guess Foligno Fisher MZ and nothing more for Nash
or
what is Justin's decision criterio on where he goes... it think it is now down to which city has the letter JT like his initials!
oops Foligno Bishop and MZ and nothing more for Nash... ;)
(sarcasm)
Forza Azzurri!!!
Italian Euro cup Champs... now I have put you asleep til Sunday :)
I'm sure that every team's presentation was impressive. If he has to become the #1 d-man on he Oilers he'll be in a big heap of trouble. In Ottawa and Vancouver he can be insulated. You would think that for his development that would be better. If he plays #1 minutes or is expected to, I could see him ending up like a Luke Schenn type of player.
what are your expectations for regin smith butler turris this year? and assuming 2 of silfverberg zib and stone make it. Who will challenge for a calder?
all 4 guys underachieved the past year for 1 reason or another.
i think if regin is healthy again, he will be chasing foligno off that top 6 role.
i expect smith to be close to 20g/15a
turris turns 23 this year, its breakout season time i think 25g25a is fair.
butler.. i expect 0. if he can pass 10 goals, that beats my expectations. (i still slightly cross my fingers hoping this past year was just a huge sophmore slump but if he doesnt get any time on the top 6, he is going no where)
as for a calder, gotta go with the guy ive posted about a few hundred times this season, ooh ah silfverberg say ooh ah silfverberg!
I think that Ottawa is one of the last teams to present gives the Sens an advantage. Sure, being the #1 guy in Edmonton seems great with their plethora of talent, but I think the pitch to be a top 4 gives Schultz a more realistica assessment on how his development should go. Ottawa's history with college players would also trump Edmonton.
I still think it's unlikely we get him, but I do think our presentation is better timed.
•Rangers: Have one of the best bluelines in the NHL, and it would be very difficult for Schultz to crack the top 6, let alone the top 4. With Girardi, Del Zotto, Staal and others, its not like the guys ahead of him are old and leaving soon.
•Leafs: the blue line in Leaf-land is still pretty crowded. Not to mention, nearly all of the Leafs defencemen are offensive minded: Phaneuf, Liles, Franson, Gardiner, Gunnarsson. Thats quite the fight for PP minutes.
•Canucks: Talented team, home town, and not a chance in hell he cracks their top 4. Not even in his dreams. And those guys are locked up big money long term. .
•Wild: Let's be honest that franchise has been nothing but mediocre for years.
•Oilers: Other than the Sens, I think the Oilers are the best fit. If I was a budding offensive defenseman, I would want to go play a power play with Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov and Taylor Hall. However, the Oilers are a ways away from winning, and their goaltending situation is a mess to say the least. Not to mention, not a lot of veterans to learn from out there. Oh, and he'd have to live in Edmonton.
•Which brings me to Ottawa. I honestly think Ottawa is the best fit for Schultz. Paul MacLean has shown that he is willing to let young offensive defencemen do their thing.
This is a team that made the playoffs last year, but their best days are ahead of them. Defence is where they are thinnest in prospects and they have some veteran d-men on the way out to make room for Schultz. Kuba played PP time last year that will have to be picked up by someone, and Gonchar will be gone soon. In the meantime, there is probably a thing or two Schultz could learn from Gonchar.
On Schultz - Ottawa is the most logical choice for this guy, Ottawa is a good team already with some very good young talent coming that he could grow up with. Toronto is a disaster, Edmonton is too small & soft & still lacks numerous parts to be good. Vancouver & the Rangers have established players on defence on can't commit to a rookie any guarantee ice time. But Ottawa can, Ottawa needs a right shot defenceman especially if Carkner does not re-sign & with Gonchar leaving at the end of next yr if not sooner there is another roster spot he could take over. IMO Ottawa would be his best option where he could play & learn the pro game from Phillips & Gonchar.
I honestly hope that Murray does not pull the trigger on Hjalmarsson. He's a decent player, yes I agree. But I have a strong feeling that fans will get tired of him quickly because he's paid over $4 million.
My first choice would be to acquire J-Bo. I think playing the system in Calgary has hindered him a bit. He'll be a much better fit in Ottawa and he'll earn his $6 million.
I agree
I don't think he will ever earn his 6 million, because what he brings to the table won't be worth 6 million, but he will be a better fit in our system and on our team. If you ignore salaries (somethign we can do with our cap, just up to uncle Eugene) then Jay Bo makes the most sense
And I'm sure Calgary would be willing to listen to offers, and I'm sure they could use a guy like Pageau or prince or somthing like that along with a bottom 6 guy
lol kettle meet pot?
lol team going anywhere? Yup 5 years of shittyness another #1 pick, still no goaltending (unless you count Dubnyk) and still no defense, and he is chirping us?
Glass House meet Stone (Mark Stone that is)
Just a funny thought I thought I'd ramble about for shits and giggles. I'm sure you cat lovers will have a few things to say but I'm telling you I've been involved in hockey my whole life and I guarentee you Tim Murray saw that picture and red flags went up. Thoughts? lol
i think the sens are a better team than edmonton,i think its just trash talk,if they pay attention to the sens games they would see that the sens are a great team with a great coach.
Thats awesome lol
I hate cats but thats ridiculous that it sends red flags saying he is soft lol
Maclean calls out his stars plain and simple. He did it with Spezza Alfie and Michalek in the playoffs(rememb er the benching?)
he knows MZ should be the dominant prospect at this camp, should be the leader (especially after 9 game stint)
so he is setting the expectation bar now, so come August/Septembe r he is ready to go
MZ shouldn't just belong at the development camp, and should just stand out, he should dominate, lead and control the camp
I wouldn't say he is soft at all, and maclean calling him out doesn't allude to any softness
you're right. his twitter picture should be of a robot shooting a plane made out of guns that fires guns.
I also fully endorse management trading him because of a photo completely unrelated to his work ethic, skill set and commitment to the organization.
uhhh. he is european. many are what N.Americans would consider um a bit feminine (trying not to use too offencive of a word)? (shoulda seen what lehner was dressed in yesterday, had some pretty short denim shorts)
So what he has a soft side off the ice. he is still a power forward that was one of the leaders on his team in hits.
plus, if youve seen his gf..well tells me i should probably try being more soft too then.
if you still think he is soft, this hit will help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St9jhaTdnmc
edit: and for the record, its a dog. not a cat.
Thats awesome lol
I hate cats but thats ridiculous that it sends red flags saying he is soft lol
Maclean calls out his stars plain and simple. He did it with Spezza Alfie and Michalek in the playoffs(rememb er the benching?)
he knows MZ should be the dominant prospect at this camp, should be the leader (especially after 9 game stint)
so he is setting the expectation bar now, so come August/Septembe r he is ready to go
MZ shouldn't just belong at the development camp, and should just stand out, he should dominate, lead and control the camp
I wouldn't say he is soft at all, and maclean calling him out doesn't allude to any softness
My roomate in college had a cat, the thing sucked so much, hated it. I used to tell my roomate everyday he was a pussy for owning that stupid thing, he'd cuddle with it and act all "cute" with it. Sickened me. Swear to god though, the cat's name was.... "Mika". Just sayin' /.... haha
I can't actually fathom how this post is in the positive
Glass House being Nugent-Hopkins. ..
Hope everyone enjoys a great Canada Day (better known as the openning of NHL free agency) ;)
You should seek therapy. This post is rated "R" for retarded.
i logged in just to like this comment LOL !
Take your cat out of your purse, go buy a little zibanejad jersey for it and go clean its litter box
It's probably leaf related so who gives a shit.
Can't wait until Sunday. Canada Day is my fav day of the year. Making the trip back to OTT for the weekend. Hoping Sens do what's right. What that is, I have no idea!!
Go fukken Sens go!!
Think about that for a second, and contemplate: "A multi-millionai re with free time".
As in time, when the organization has no curfew imposed on you.
Are you seriously telling me such a person is limited to the city they live in to have a good time??????
Frack. I am on a plane to NYC, the Bahamas, Jamaica, or wherever the f*** I please, cause I am a multi-millionai re, and money is no object.
KJ
But is that a desperation ploy... Sounds almost like they are begging.
... or ... it went down something like this:
Wayne: Hey Justin, it's Wayne Gretzky calling on behalf of the Edmonton Oilers. We'd really love you to be a part of the organization.
Schultz: http://media.photobucket.com/image/dancing%20gif/Kittezu/dancing.gif?o=15
Yeah I'm laid back and can see some humor in your post, but getting excited over 19 year old kids who takes cutesy pet shots to show their girlfriends is a bit odd.
Twitter right now says I have 4,226 new Tweets, I should go read and find out what's happening.
I will pay you $20 to pour a beer on Healy. I'm not kidding but will do everything I can to avoid having this incident pinned on me and avoiding assault charges.
Get it IN HIS HAIR!
Cheers!
Interesting... thanks for the rumour!
Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
Free agent defenceman Justin Schultz will decide tomorrow where he's signing.
its only good news if he signs with the sens.
definitely, but i meant that we'll know his decision by tomoro
indeed lets hope its the right one,we will see fingers crossed.
A first line of Parise-Spezza-Nash
That would be unreal.
Of course, I'm jutst dreaming, unless BM can work some magic
http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/36673752001/40310152001/Laraque-comeback/page/2
He's not on the market but I was pondering how well Kyle Okposo might fit into the Sens lineup. Too soft though, check out the girly puppy shot from his Twitter profile. Haha.
https://twitter.com/bookerT2116
However..
If he's basing his decision based on hockey team's future and the city itself, he's got to be taking a hard look at Ottawa. One of the deepest prospect pools in the league, and a great city to live in. Ottawa has the canal, the market, tonnes of outdoor rinks in the winter, a beautiful downtown core, ERIK KARLSSON?! He may not realize it, but he'd love it here.
Edmonton has a mall...
How can anybody possibly deny the Stache?
I say we have it in the bag :)
Good news to start the day as apparently the Sens are in the final two for Justin Schultz. Decision expected this afternoon. Could be an interesting day.
Here's a video showing how great of friends they are!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7zOHBv2KgY&feature=related
I have spent a fair amount of time in both cities and I love Ottawa but the only thing Ottawa really has on Edmonton is slightly better winter weather. Summers are better in Edmonton they are less humid. Ottawa has a canal that freezes over, Edmonton has a river and if you want winter activities try the rocky mountains within driving distance of Edmonton. Nightlife is compareable to the market if not better.. Liqour stores are open 24/7. As for Ottawas downtown core it sucks. Edmonton has a real skyline which makes Ottawa look pathetic and to be honest all the hookers downtown Ottawa are not beautiful. As for the West Edmonton Mall It is bigger than the Rideau, St. Laurent, Place D'Orleans, and Bayshore put together and it has an amusement park and a large indoor water park.
Enjoy your round Chirp. I hope you shoot 65.
and therefore some believe that they aren't. My keen analytical mind deciphers that Schultz will either sign with Ottawa or he won't.
Agreed.
He only played on the 2nd line for about 30 games and the rest was either 3rd ir 4th line. The guy got 50 points whicht to me is VERY impressive!
Even if he would have played the entire season on the 2nd line and finished with 50 points would have been a solid season. I mean when you start getting closer to 60 points as a 2nd liner you start being one of the best complimentary scorers in the league. So he's very far from being useless.
I actually think he's very close to being one of the very best 2nd or 3rd liners in the league. If he just improves a little bit more he will be a great player.
Dong get me wrong I still would like to see him in a Nash trade but if it doesn't happen he'll still be a very productive player for the Sens
Chirp is trying to sound like an insider meanwhile he's talking to his golf buddies
The Score @theScore
The Edmonton Oilers have signed defenceman David Musil to an entry-level contrac
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