Tonight the NHL will hold its annual awards event in Las Vegas.
Unlike past years, where most Sens fans would be tuning in to see the scintillating musical styling’s of whatever B-List Canadian rock group was scheduled to perform (NICKLEBACK!) , tonight we tune in to see which of our guys will be taking home the hardware.
- Jack Adams Award
The Jack Adams Award is an annual award presented by the National Hockey League Broadcasters' Association to the NHL coach judged to have contributed the most to his team's success.
Nominees: Ken Hitchcock, John Tortorella, Paul MacLean
Who Should Win: Paul MacLean
There is no doubt in my mind that Paul MacLean deserves to win. Taking over a team that finished bottom 5 in league standings one year prior and were pegged to finish even lower this season was not going to be a simple task. Paul MacLean came in from day one and vowed that this team would get better one day at a time, and start to build a foundation on winning and putting in hard work. The fact that they even made the playoffs, let alone taking the first place New York Rangers to 7 games was an incredible feat all based off of the mentality that MacLean put in place from the second he was hired to turn this club around. If you’re looking for a guy who “contributed the most to his team’s success” look no further than Paul MacLean.
Who Will Win: Hitchcock
He’s a 4 time nominee who led a pretty likeable Blues team to their first 100pt season. He’s been around a long time and did a pretty solid job getting the most out of his players. He did such a good job instituting a defensive system in St. Louis that Brian Elliot actually looked like a potential Vezina nominee for the majority of the season (until the playoffs when he turned back into a pumpkin).
- James Norris Memorial Trophy
The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position. The winner is selected in a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association at the end of the regular season.
Nominees: Zdeno “Not Wade Redden” Chara, Shea “Beard of the year” Weber, Erik “45.5 Million Dollar Man” Karlsson
Who Should Win: Erik Karlsson
He put up 78 pts. He’s 22. He’s a Defenseman. He has the physical build of a 14 year old girl. AND HE STILL DOMINATED. Karlsson was unstoppable this season to the point that looking at defensive scoring
stats became a joke about half way through the season. His ability to play to his strengths and have a solid and reliable strategy to manage his weaknesses made him a dangerous player to play against. And for all of you who say he can’t play defence, if you dig a little deeper you will see that this simply isn’t the case.
Who Will Win: Shea Weber
Weber seems to be the golden boy among the writers that vote for this award. It seems like every single writer has already decided that Erik Karlsson is the world’s worst defender because he isn’t a 6`5 behemoth who crushes people to the ice whenever they cross the blueline. If you are looking for a well-around defenseman, on the surface Weber is your guy, but dig a little deeper and Karlsson is the obvious choice.
- Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy
The Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy is an annual award under the trusteeship of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association and is given to the National Hockey League player who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey.
Nominees: Joffrey “Don’t Call me Jeffrey” Lupul, Max “Movie Critic” Pacioretty, Daniel “Motherf***ing” Alfredsson
Who Should Win: Max Pacioretty
The guy almost got his head ripped off by arguably the most terrifying physical presence in the NHL. Zdeno Chara almost killed this guy and Pacioretty came back this to have the best season of his career and lead the Montreal Canadiens in scoring.
Who Will Win: Max Pacioretty
Pacioretty will probably end up taking this award home because when looking at the ballot, his reason for being on it is probably the only one that is immediately obvious. Everyone knows why he is on the list, and everyone knows what he went through to be there. Patches take this one hands down.
So those are my thoughts on how the awards concerning the Senators will play out tonight. Let me know in the comments section who you think will win and why, or send me a note @TomSENS on twitter!
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/06/20/must-see-video-alfredsson-rises/
really?
Solid video!
I officially don't care about the rebuild after watching that! Sign Nash, Sign Weber.
Spend to the cap and GET THIS MAN A STANLEY CUP!!!
1. Hitchcock
2. Weber
3. Paciorety
self-serving Academy Awards event ?
Not my picks. Tom wrote today's entry.
Rick Nash and Steve Mason -FOR- Milan Michalek, Ben Bishop, Mikka Zibanejad and a mid-range pick
Reasons; We would essentially be upgrading Michalek to Nash for Zibanejad. Yes, he's probably our best prospect but you have to give something big for a top 5 player. At the same time Zibanejad will never get to anywhere near the calibre of player Nash is and will be for the next decade. Chances are he'll be a solid 2nd line power forward, which don't get me wrong is great but it's def no superstar. I would love to swing the deal where you give up Foligno instead of Michalek but Columbus just won't agree to that. If that were the case you'd need to give up a second "A" prospect however Columbus has made it pretty clear they won't roster players or NHL ready prospects. As for the goalies...well they definitely want a young goalie capable of being a starter. Bishop is exactly that. I wuld like to see Mason come our way because I see it as they want/need to get rid of him so we could take him off their hands and he could be a solid backup at the very least. Or could some day develop back into the elite goalie people thought he was. And contract you ask? Well his cap it is at 2.9 and only for this next year. If he simply plays as our backup he'd get a significant pay cut and could be a long terms backup for when Lehner comes in and Anderson is gone. I sort of see it as a downgrade for now but his ceiling is so high he could still end up being an upgrade. I think it's a fair and good deal for both teams.
I disagree.
Look at the Sens' roster and look at the Blues roster and tell me which one, on paper, should have done better this season. I would submit (and most of the predictions agree) that the Blues had the raw potential for the 100 point season despite the coaching.
The Sens' roster was fraught with rookies and off-casts, players coming off poor seasons (and ostensibly on the down-slide). They had no business finishing even close to a playoff spot. Enter Maclean.
He instituted a system that worked for the players. He drew together a fractured dressing room. He brought a team that everyone, including die-hard fans, expected to finish in a lottery position and led them to the playoffs.
Hitchcock helped the Blues realize their potential, Maclean helped the Sens surpass their potential.
It's as simple as that.
They both were teams that wasnt supposed to be where they finished and it was mentioned somewhere before in past debates that the Blues jumped more spots on the way to 1st, Sens only went to 8th. Rosters were pretty much the same.
Tell me name the 15 players Nash beat to make it in the top 5 among this list?
Crosby
Ovechkin
Datsyuk
H Sedin
D Sedin
Stamkos
Perry
Toews
St Louis
Getzlaf
Zetterberg
Kesler
E Staal
Iginla
B Richards
Malkin
Kopitar
Kane
Giroux
As for Zibad... There's a reason the Sens picked him, and trust me with the people available at that slot in the draft, it wasnt because they though he would be a great 2nd liner... Its because the scouting staff - who by the way are highly praised by others in the league - see a future star first liner in him. Everyone has a right to their opinion... but this Sens fan is keeping his tabs on the people who studied this prospects inside and out rather then someone who probably didnt even see Zibad play one game in person.
Most pundits said that the Blues were on the verge of becoming successful, with a maturing core and decent goaltending (Halak). But fair point.
Daniel "MotherFing" Alfredsson? Really? Not gonna touch that....
Chara "Not wade redden"? Let it go...
This guy is a clown.
Also I disagree with the picks... I truely think Karlsson will win, Probably right when it comes to Hitchcock, Although I believe Maclean is a close second or tie (if that was possible hahaha) and it's a two horse race between max and alfie. Although Max will most likely come up on top.
That makes no sense, for the simple reason that BM wants to ADD another top 6 forward not trade one away for another one, we would still be short one top 6 forward. We also have no need to spend $2 mil more on a backup goalie then what we have right now.
MM9 + another player > Nash's cap hit and his term of the contract I'd rather have 2 top 6 forwards for the same amount of money as Nash.
I don't like that specific trade for a bunch of reasons, but I wouldn't say Murray wouldn't consider including MM9 to get Nash - but it does mean he still will want to add another top 6.
But it would mean the "added" top 6 could be a legit second liner rather than a top line guy. Also makes it easier for the "added" top 6 guy to come internally like Murray has said was an option for the top 6 and top 4 D.
Decent article but two constructive criticisms if I may:
1 - don't try to be slap-stick
2 - the article does come off a bit like a stereotypical "always a bridesmaid" Sens fan they way you basically say the Sen should win each one but won't (or two of the three anyway).
But a decent read and hope to see more from Tom.
While some may argue differently, I do think Nash is slightly > Ryan, but the price for Ryan is probably more-than-sligh tly less (when you look at cap hit and pieces to acquire etc).
Wasn't trying to fall into a stereotype. That's genuinely how I feel. Truly believe that Karlsson and MacLean deserves their respective awards but dont think that national media/broadcast ers will see it that way.
I'll take Nash please.
But if Ryan plays with Spezza he'd ... [insert homer fan sentiment here]
LOL
Totally agree with you really, just saying the way it's laid out with "who should"/"who will" it looks like the point of the article is to complain that everyone is against us.
Really only matters if leaf trolls come by to read this blog though.
Just feedback - not intended to be bashing.
Post what the other teams are offering then we could legitimately see where we stand.
When did they add in the pick? What's your source?
The (still unconfirmed) rumor was that Z+F+B was the latest offer.
Hax I read one of your other post in the blog before I will for try to ignore him and the reason why I have not posted on here for awhile is because of what he says each time I post on but I still come on here and still read chirps blog so I can suport the best site on the internet!
Also Hax you are good person and great!
Spezzafan...don't let a few morons stop you from posting
same offer dude lol
we are in 2012 not 2011 (referring to MZ)
The reality is it's just an unconfirmed rumor. Does anyone know for sure exactly what has or has not been offered. Only thing we have heard is thet the Jackets want two prospects and 2 NHL ready players.
All I know is Nash is a top end player that if acquired may keep Alfie around for more than just this year.
The "more" part is subjective to what we have available and we can afford
Anaheim will not want a package similar to what Columbus wants, they will want immediate help, and I would assume in the form of a 2LC and top 4 D, where as Coloumbus will take picks and prospects and roster players
We don't have the luxury of assets to pursue Ryan, but we do have the assets to pursue Nash
Buffalo being able to offer Derek Roy and a mix of prospects has a leg up on us for Bobby Ryan.
Have u heard anything about NJ and Ottawa deal getting Atrain back just saw it on a couple sites
Bishop Gonchar 3rd
for
Atrain NJ 1st
Bishop replacing Marty
Gonchar less term and pp specialist puck mover
Free up term money to resign players
Ottawa get Atrain back to pair with Phily -shutdown pair
And 1st rd pick to replace subban or russian kid or goalie Brynas Silfverberg teammate
What other sites? First I've heard of this lol, dumb trade IMO
eliminating gonchar for A-train salary means same salary on books, but longer term and we are still missing a top 4 dman
Stupid
Ah okay - have seen others that listed this year's pick and thought that was what was posted here.
But if Parise is unwilling to come here, why would Nash (who has a NTC) be any different?
Maybe he doesn't like Don Cherry and would love to form the Ontario Hydro Power line for Ottawa with Spezza and burn the Leafs every chance they get?
Its not that bad of a deal knowing what the Train brings shutdown and 150 block shots a year 30 years old with 3years left at 4.5
Use your head and think before running off at the mouth ..lol some peoples kids lol
Might want to give your posts a quick read-through before sending if you're going to say "user your head".
Just sayin'
he brings a style of play that is not condusive to the system Maclean employs. He has brick hands and can't play puck possession hockey. Example? board and out, board and out, board and out
We are still short a top 4 d-man, and now don't have Bishop as a main trade piece. Granted we have an extra 1st, but really do we need to focus on stock piling even more prospects???
Its a dumb trade, take it for what it is
holy fukin chills Batman
hair standing on end,
hope Alfie sees this, "Not everything" YET!!!
2 more years with Captain Alfie, and we get one more shot!!!
Sometimes its hard too post from your phone on senschirp when your bosses are around under the desk posting not always a great idea ..
Thanks for the heads
Well Nash is Canadian and from Ontario so he might be more inclined to come here than parise who is American. Also Nash played with spezza at the worlds, and he can only waive to the few teams making a great offer as parise will get a lot more offers and can likely get on the team he wants. Where as only a few teams are willing to make a great offer for Nash and if the team that he wants to go to isn't serious for him, he will have to expand his list or waive to another team like Ottawa.
Well Nash is Canadian and is from Ontario so he might be more inclined. Also Nash played with spezza at the worlds and Nash can only choose to waive to the teams willing to give a good offer as parise will have more offers and can likely get
Well if you live in a glass house ....
Not trying to start some sort of internet war here man, just suggesting that if you're going to pick a fight you should maybe wait until your break.
What are system needs are a shut down pair...With the extra first helps with the youth movement
Top 4 dmen could be used with 15th overall ...
the 15th would not be used for a top 4 dman, because our need is for a top 4 dman to play this year. Who ever we pick at 15 wont be playing this year, maybe next year but more than likely 3 years from now.
You can get shutdown dmen who can still play the puck. Look at Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Michalek, Hjarmalsson, Kronwall etc
thats what we need. PLayers who are defensively reliable and bring more to the table than just block shots, as they can become extinct in this league very quickly
Agreed. A- train is a depreciating asset that is overpayed and doesn't play well in a puck possession system. Loved him but it's time to let him go.
I don't hate the idea of this trade actually. Gonchar could be bottom pairing anyway (with PP time of course) if we acquire a top 4 D, but if we did make this trade we'd still need to go get someone to play with EK65.
Our D would look fine with either guy as long as it's bottom pairing:
Suter Karlsson
Cowen mid-range UFA
Phillips Gonchar/Volchenkov
But since we likely will have stick a mid-range guy with EK and move Boro-Cop into the bottom pair for now, I'd choose Gonchar over A-Train.
Quality post
how the heck can anyone be predicting that this guy is damaged goods after taking a few weeks off due to injury?
And how can anyone be predicting a second or third line future on a 19 year old?
Anyone see that overtime goal in the juniors?
Not just anybody can power through like that to win a WJC in overtime.
I too say that he will be better than most give him credit for
Olli Maata is said to be Nhl ready he could be around at 15
Tell me name the 15 players Nash beat to make it in the top 5 among this list?
Crosby
Ovechkin
Datsyuk
H Sedin
D Sedin
Stamkos
Perry
Toews
St Louis
Getzlaf
Zetterberg
Kesler
E Staal
Iginla
B Richards
Malkin
Kopitar
Kane
Giroux
quote]
ya I'll play this game and for the shits and giggles I'll say he's probably more like top 6....
ARGUABLY BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD ARE:
CROSBY, OVECHKIN (when motivated and in shape) AND DATSYUK
SLIGHTLY BETTER OR EQUAL TO NASH ARE
STAMKOS AND GIROUX
Rick Nash is a better player than
KANE
KOPITAR
ZETTERBERG
ST LOUIS
D SEDIN EITHER OF THE SEDIN SISTERS WITHOUT THE OTHER
H SEDIN EITHER OF THE SEDIN SISTERS WITHOUT THE OTHER
KESLER BY A COUNTRY MILE
STAAL
GETZLAF
PERRY
IGINLA
TOEWS
RICHARDS
Trade Z Smith for Hjalmersson
Trade Gonchar for A-train (with other parts if needs be)
Sign Suter by any means necessary
Suter Karlsson
Cowen Hjalmersson
Phillips Volchenkov
Carkner
Though I guess that leaves most of the offense to Karlsson and Suter - so maybe look for a D with more offensive upside than Hjalmersson.
If this pipe dream was actually possible we could even deal some of our D-prospects (such as they are) or just let them keep preparing to take over for Phillips and Volchenkov.
You forgot Malkin, he is far better than Nash
There's a difference between "NHL ready" and "top 4". Maata is ready to be eased into the NHL but I don't think he's ready to take on top 4 minutes. Outside chance he is but then he'd be up for the Calder.
How about trading for Hjalmersson or Jay-Bo and signing Aucion instead of getting Volchenkov... Why get players that we had. Aucion can actually play the puck is good defensively, good leader, and best of all we can have him as long or little as we like.... I say we should sign him for 1 - 2 years 2mil or 1.5mil.
Hjalmersson Karlsson
Cowen Gonchar
Phillips Aucion
Few years down the road...
Cowen Karlsson
Ceci Hjalmersson
Phillips Boro
Beauty Hax, excellent point!
look we already know what the Rangers had offered at the deadline, and Howson said NO.
it was something along
Stepan
Dubinsky
Krieder
and Del Zotto
and was there not also a draft pick?
How would Zibby, Foligno, and Bishop beat that deal???
My question is why not go full throttle on Parise?
Then go Q4Q with some of our extra forwards for a quality D,
I am sure 7.8 mil over 6 years may land you Parise?
Personally I think we have a better shot at Parise than Nash
Getting Volchy back would be going backwards, I think his best days are behind him, it wouldnt make sense getting Volchy and his terrible contract.
Unless the Sens feel that Cowen is ready to play with Karlsson (which is premature if you ask me) and then you get a mid-range OFD to play on the second pairing.
Sure we are getting a 1st out of it also, but at 29 it's hardly a game changer (See Jim O'Brien). Bishop is one of our most important trade assets and to lose him in a deal just to get A-Train just leaves a sour taste
We don't really need more 1st round picks as we already have enough and will be struggling to find room for all of them in coming years (minus defense)
Now if we could trade gonchar and our 1st to Islanders for Calvin de haan I would be all over it
Possession hockey is great but being ranked 20TH on PK Atrain would be asset
I agree with that, Hax, only D that is top 4 rdy IMO is Reinhardt. Guy is a man-beast!
Ill twitter you again lol
yes Chirp, this the very first day that I have not had any issues.... SO FAR.... dont want to jinx it!
Yeah not even considering the Bishop element. Was really just thinking one-for-one (or at most some toss-ins).
De Haan would be great. Another local boy.
NHL Rumors: Now the Senators are making a pitch for Rick Nash
www.cbssports.com
Yeah now that I read your post again (which is a quote from the article I see) I realized there was no pick added but they're just emphasizing that MZ was a first rounder last year.
Listen up @ 3:25pm!
Tuned in, not holding my breath though
Did they finally admit fault?
If they haven't I again won't hold my breath haha
If anyone is having issues they aren't here to respond to you. Haha. As I said in email though, none of the issues from the past week so far today, both at office and at home. See if we make it over the evening hump too.
I couldn't get on this morning around 9 to 9:30
but since then its systems a go
(keep in mind, its worked fine all week up until this morning)
Dorion is an AWESOME interview just days before the draft... I look forward to his bit each year now.
The problem with this article is the reported "Insider" is from Sun Media and looking into it further is the article from Brennan
I don't think this makes the already out there rumours any truer. In fact, I think it makes it less likely LOL
cbc at 8 pm !
I'm getting a headache.
Bobby Ryan.. cheaper & younger.. right wing.
Rick Nash .. more expensive, 27 -- LEFT wing.
I would like either on the Sens - but isn't left wing the need?
I think about what Spezza did for Heatley.. who was more or less a sniper and nothing else. Both Nash & Ryan are more rounded players.
Columbus wants and needs a goaltender. Would the Sens have the best offer on that part?
Also IF Nash ever did come to Ottawa... how many more season tickets would that translate into? Maybe then there would be no selling off of tickets to Leafs & Habs fans.
Nice article Tom. I'll be watching and cheering for 'our guys' to win. There has been only 2 Ottawa Senators to ever win a NHL award. Alfie and Jacques Martin. It's time to add to that.
Read a commenter on HB that he heard there were 2 teams waiting to do an offer sheet on Karlsson. One was reported to be a Western Team (ummm Oilers perhaps?) and going 12 or 13 years with large $. Not sure how true that is..
They are. End of story.
Doesnt mean it happens. But yes, they are involved.
Thank you sir.
Everyone really needs to stop thinking bobby Ryan will be cheaper than Rick Nash. Rick Nash makes 7.8 so money wise sure Ryan is cheaper, but in 3 years when he is a UFA who would you rather have???
Also, Ryan is a different type of package needed than nash. We can utilize our surplus of prospects to get nash, but the same can't be said for Anaheim who are not in rebuild mode. They will want top 6 forwards, so Michalek will have to be included, although they ideally would prefer a 2LC
So yes money wise Ryan is cheaper, but if we are sending a huge package to either Anaheim or Columbus, Nash makes more sense, since we will have him for longer before UFA and we have the actual assets coveted by the other team
He said they figure they will get a player they have on their list ranked 11-14th...
He said if a player falls (who the Sens had in their top 10) he would do a backflip on the draft table.
Sorry no Nash news, LOL!
Dorion recapped their plan, feels they'll get one of the four (or five) guys they feel will be available.
Possible they might move up (to get one of them) but doubt they'll be moving down.
On Karlsson: Says (as prompted by Simmer) that he's very proud of Karlsson doing as well as he has. Credits Murray on moving up to get him based on Dorion's team recommending it. Also credits Tim Murray for his support (in general and specifically to picking Karlsson).
On draft "fluidity": Says there may not be "wow factor" this year but feels they'll be happy with all 7 selections they make.
Feels they won't get someone from their "top 10" but feels they'll get one of the four guys they have ranked 11-14.
Chatter has started in general of teams moving up and down (doesn't feel Sens will move).
BPA question/will they pick a D: Doesn't want to say they'll pick a D for sure but did say his 4 picks include "forwards" and "there's a defenseman in there". (But not exactly indicating that there's only one D.)
Feels that in his 4 years in Ottawa, Stone was a pleasant surprise. Recent surprise in the draft in general were Cam Fowler dropping to 12 recently.
On local kids: Talked to Koekkoek a bit on the plane down to the draft, likes him a lot it sounds (could be fluff). Ceci "a great kid" and really raised his game this past year. Brassard and Altshuller came in for interviews, would be happy to take either if they're available at the right pick (more fluff really).
On drafting local kids: Not concerned with prospects reacting to being drafted (working with media etc).
Last minute meetings: Done them in the past, but no need this year. Could "tip their hand" if they did, but nothing planned.
Nothing on the Nash trade.
WOW do some of you ever have this guy overrated. You couldn't possibly think the same if he wasn't on the trade block.
I would take Kopitar, Giroux, Toews, Perry and Stamkos
over Nash ANY day even with Spezza on the team.
Not to mention Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin
You're hammered on booze right now aren't you? I'd bet that any of Richards, St.Louis, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Malkin, Toews are selected before Nash if there was an expansion draft right now...
Guranteed.
It's always possible that CBJ wants more for Nash than Anaheim wants for Ryan but I agree it won't be much different if at all (could be more for Ryan).
Having said that, it's possible that the specific package Anaheim wants is easier for us than what CBJ wants. If we're to believe that CBJ wants two roster players that could be harder than if Anaheim is looking for one roster player and picks/prospects . Or vice versa really.
So really, Murray is hopefully at least kicking tires with both to see if one deal fits us better than the other. Then of course you factor in the cap-hit/salary expectations (short and long term) as well as which guy brings more etc.
Thanks Hax, much appreciated!
exactly,
its as ignorant as calling heatley a top 10 pure goal scorer in the league.
both nash and heatley have had great seasons before, but both are overrated. and if you go just by stats, heatley is better. (not saying heater is actaully better than nash)
and dont give me the "heatley had spezza" argument, because heatley was able to hit 41g on atlanta with almost no help.
Exactly.
Any of the players I listed or the one listed above should come before Nash. No argument.
All those guys are great players, no doubt, but put them in Nash' shoes, do they still become elite talent? Hard to tell really but Nash is doing and has done pretty damn good wasting away in Columbus.
Only Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and Ovie are ahead of Nash, but they do have help from other great players on the team. Im not so convinced the others on your list would be any better than Nash if they played in Columbus....alo ne.
No kidding... to tell you the truth, if I went through the list and told myself I had XXX person... would I give him and something else up for Nash... I would probably not. I find that most of these guys are either better or similar in value as Nash. Its great to say he's a top five player on a crap team... but what evidence is there that his game would elevate if he played on a better team? As far as I know he might have as much chance of pulling similar numbers on a higher ranking team
He said they have 4 players targeted (at one point said "or five" but other times kept saying 4). And he said forwardS (plural) in that group.
So I'm going to guess that the four they have targeted are:
Hampus Lindholm D
Cody Ceci D
Teuvo Teravainen LW
Stefan Matteau C/LW
Thoughts?
Given that most people think we're overflowing with forwards and need D help and G depth, do you think the fact that they have two forwards in mind means they're expecting a trade/signing or two? Or is it just that they feel the forwards are just better picks that whatever D are left when they pick?
Come on man, are you forgetting that he played with one of the best players in the league in Kovalchuk!
ah right an 18 year old rookie, forgot.
Case in Point? Watch todays TSN Top 10 1st overall picks and watch the show Nash puts on
Its a rare breed of skills nash has, and the best analogy I really can come up with in Sports is Kevin garnett when he was being held hostage by the Minnesota Timberwolves
If anyone remembers the "big ticket" and his time there, surely knows what I'm referring to.
Nash would excel in our system, and if he isn't a top 10/15/20 forward before the trade, I have no doubt in mind he would become one after...with or without spezza
Tookie,
Are you telling me that if there was a draft right now including all those guys, you'd choose Nash before Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Richards (both of them), Toews, Giroux or Kopitar?
Have you watched any WC games ....at all? just proved you wrong. Give Nash a decent to great team and he'll produce 80+pts with 40+ goals.
I'd disagree with that. Giroux I think is the only one you could make that argument for because we haven't seen him play on a bad Flyers team. That said I would still prefer him over Nash because of the leadership qualities he brings to the table.
Kopitar, Toews and Perry have all had seasons where their team has underperformed and they have been just as effective.
Dorion said that they felt one of the guys they have ranked 11-14 would be available. So the list of four is just the guys they have ranked 11-14. Many mock drafts and rankings have Ceci in that range, but you're right - very few have him all the way down to 15.
http://video.senators.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hcatid=1304
Hax, that seems about bang on man, and they have to trade or make some trades if they do end up geting a FW. mind boggling if we take another FW without moving people out first
but malkin/stamkos/ giroux i would take over nash
i wouldn't take zetterberg over him, datsyuk only because he is a versatile centremen
In terms of complimentary wingers, which basically all wingers are, nash is amongst a select few
basically after re-looking at it everyone you are mentioning are centremen
both richards, kopitar, stamkos, malkin, crosby, toews, zetterberg, datsyuk, giroux
they all have the ability to play centre or have played in the past.
Stick to strictly wingers and your looking at Kovalchuk, Iginla, Heatley, Kessle, Nash...(not in any order)
All those players have played or play with other great players all they're careers. Especially Datsyuk and Zetterberg who are on the decline IMO. So yeah I would, maybe not before Giroux but definitely before both Richards and Toews and Kopitar, who has only been great this year on a stacked L.A team.
I could be wrong but wasn't Marc Savard his centre in Atlanta?
He had two 50 goal seasons with Spezza and couldn't get more than 39 with the great and wonderful Joe Thornton...
Personally, I agree on the first 3 and think we'd be really lucky to get one of them, especially Ceci and Lindholm. If somehow Mikhail Grigorenko falls to 15, I think though not a huge position of need, would be well worth taking a chance on (assuming the 1st 3 above are already gone). Maybe this Zemgus Girgensons kid who's been jumping up the chart at the last minute as well. The other three I'd consider are Slater Koekkoek, Matt Finn and Malcolm Subban (if we move a goalie).
This is why they interview people before they give them a job I guess... everyone has their own opinion. I would not choose him over them. Especially not over Datsyuk... or even kovalchuk.
no, you are correct. but that season heatley got 41g 48a in 77 games. his center savard got 47points in 57 games. and the other center was patrik stepan who got 34 in 71.
the only decent help he got was from vyacheslav kozlov 70points in 79games. and kovulchuk 67 in 81
Look it up! It was both of their 2nd seasons and Kovalchuk put up 38 goals as well. Hardly something to ignore, though I'm sure it ruins your whole fictitious point.
Hax - I like your 4 but I do like Maata as a d and if Forwards are on that list, I'd love Tom Wilson. with the glut of skilled forwards we have, we don't have a top 6, goal scoring enforcer which is what Wilson brings. Really, really rare in my opinion.
If you want to accurately assess Nash' play to others who have played on good to great teams, look at his international play, and more accurately in the WC, as OLY is usually super stacked.
Give Nash the opportunity to play where Datsyuk or Toews or Giroux have played and played with and I assure you he would have similar or better stats and probably a Cup.
Nash is a top end player, with good to great players his game does elevate.
He is a top end player, agreed. He is not a top 5 player. All i am saying...
excuse me but, remind me why i should care to do any research about heatley?
ok, so i was slightly off, doesnt change my argument.
It completely changes your argument. It actually proves your argument to be 100% wrong.
That's more help than even Spezza had last year!
I'm so tired of people posting wrong facts on here when it's not close to the truth. Rumors is one thing, but you're talking about factual history. Take 30s and look it up or expect the backlash at your bullshit.
No not top 5 at this very moment, I agree with you, thats tough to crack, but if we do end up getting him and he goes on a tear for 2-3 years putting up 40G and 90+ pts would that put him in your top 5? Would be hard NOT to add him as top 5 elite FW.
Top 5 IMO (at the moment)
Malkin
Giroux
Crosby
Stamkos
Ovie
Nash could definitely crack the 4th or 5th with a couple of great seasons in OTT.
If we want to draft a goalie (specifically Subban) then we need to trade down (which Dorion said they won't do) or acquire another pick in the early second or late first.
Picking Subban at #15 would be silly - goalies almost never go that high unless they're close to Fleury level.
I agree the smartest move would be to trade our two 3rds to move up into the 2nd if we want a goalie, but Subban does look like that high quality type and will probably not be around after the 1st rnd. I would not be surprised to see him go in the top 20.
bro, how does kovulchuk scoring 38 goals help heater score goals?
he needs a centerman to feed him passes...
i already admitted i made a mistake earlier.
jesus, never seen someone get so butt hurt over something so irrelevant.
/discussion
It will be great to see him somewhere other than Columbus with a fresh start. He had declined in the NHL and internationally at the WC's last 3-4 years but should be re-energized with a fresh start.
Did he have 0 assists that year, sorry must have missed that during my actual fact checking. Kovalchuk is one of the best pure offensive players in the league, if you think that doesn't help Healtey score you're a lost cause. Enjoy your "opinion".
And yes I have a problem with ignorance.
he has has flashes of brilliance but to try and compare him to Datsuk, Kovelchuk, Toews, Richards, Kopitar, Giroux is short sited.
Is the team that makes the player better, or the player that makes the team better?
To say that he has had no one to play with is not fair.
Spezza last year had very little to play with, he makes all around him better. MM9 just came off ACL surgery, and net the most goals of his career.
Does Nash make everyone he plays with better? Judging only by his record, I would have to say NO.
In a perfect world I would say lets try for Nash, but in todays NHL, trust me, there will be that stupid team that is willing to pay more than he is worth, and I do not want to be that team... IMO only of course
Personally I would rather Parise at 7.8 mill over the next 6 years = to what Nash will cost minus the cost of the players.
Then you still have all those players for a second move ie a top 4 D
Now you have the TWO pieces you need instead of only Nash.
Does this not make more sense?
After speaking with sources, I do not believe Brandon Dubinsky will remain a New York Ranger. Could be moved at the #2012NHLDraft
Hey who knows.. you may see a Bobby Ryan + trade to Columbus for Rick Nash...
I don't rate him that high really - waste of a first overall if you ask me since I think Pitt could have traded down and still got him.
Just saying that it's a rare goalie that gets drafted in the top 20. And I don't think Subban is worth the 15th overall pick - maybe 25th at the highest. If he indeed would go sooner then I'd rather "settle" for one of the goalies we can get in the third round.
Spezza had a much better players, hell if only Nash had Alfie or Karlsson or Michalek (who's had 50+ pt season without Spezza before.) on his team he would be jumping over the moon. And yes he did make players better, Umberger, Vermette, Voracek all had career years playing with him, now is that the calibre other guys had to play with, no they had much better players around them.
wasnt aware im speaking to a child here but no ilya didnt have 0 assists, he had only 29. good for 4th on the team, hence, he was NOT the main reason for heatley's success that season.
Greeing, Butler, also played with Spezza, and 50 points from MM9 is not what I consider much better than what Nash had.
I agree I have seen some brilliance in him, but not at any cost that some team will pay for him.
what about my second option of Parise, and then make a trade for top 4 D?
You can't look at World Championships to compare Nash to all those other great players because their teams usually make the playoffs so they arent playing at the WC. He isn't top 20.
So both Heatley and Kovalchuk are on the ice, they each score a goal, but neither helped the other score because they didn't get an assist. You know just like every other time there's 5 people on the ice and only 1-3 get points from a goal, those other 2-4 were useless! I see the logic, it's right up there with religious wars, how can that not make sense to a kid brain like mine.
As I said enjoy your "opinion" and the rest of your day.
my 2 cents.
that being said, i think he'd look great on Spezza's wing. I'm totally on the fence about what would be good for the team going forward to give up. Bishop/Foligno I'm cool with, not sure about Zibanejad (i think he's gonna be a Hossa clone). I know CBJ wants players but I'd try to include this years 1st instead of one of our A-pool prospects (but CBJ wants players so that probably wont happen)...but again, just an opinion
and I do admit I have a significantly harder time coming up with a deal that I would be happy with that would also appeal and make Ana happy.
No.
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=314
Sanity at last - thanks!!
Also What if Robin Lehner agent said to Bryan Murray that Lehner would like to be dealt instead going back to Bingo
what should Murray do with goaltending situation?
I really don't want to see Murray trade Robin Lehner!
What type of return can Murray get for Lehner?
Yeah I think it's almost a case of Anaheim and Ottawa just not being great trading partners in terms of us having excess of what they need etc. If CBJ is looking for forwards (as rumored) then they "fit" with us better.
I'm not sure which player I would rather if they were both on the same contract and cost the same in return. My gut says Nash but I wonder if I only think that because the media has conditioned us that he's so awesome for so long. Ryan is younger and cheaper.
Hmmmm...
I think if Murray cannot get a really solid top 3 winger that he should indeed start planning for next year (either UFAs like Perry or other guys that might be available next deadline and beyond).
I'd much rather he look for a short-term signing or internally than try to force some 3rd liner in as a first liner (which I don't think he'd do).
If Lehner demands a trade tell him to play in Bingo of GTFO - while of course listening to offers.
I think the right team might offer up something worth considering and Lehner in a package could get us our top 3 winger or top pairing D (we'd have to add a few parts of course).
Quoting Spezzafan19:
Perry would be amazing...way to early to speculate if he will be available though, see how next season goes.
If Lehner does that(and I do not think he will) I say move him...don't need anyone that thinks they are above the team/system.... That being said, seeing as he has been our best goalie out of training camp 3 years in a row and 3 years in a row he has been told he will get a shot later in the year to not really have it materialize, I wouldn't really blame him for being annoyed. Although he is only 20, and VERY few goalies break into the nhl at that age.
"If ANA moves Ryan I suspect it would be for two or three building block pieces that would increase organizational depth but not payroll."
That makes it a bit easier.
Also know I am dreaming and he is rfa next summer and I know he will resign with the Bruins before next summer is Milan Lucic.
I like Lucic (except when we play him - when I hate him like poison) but I think having MM9 is close enough. I'd rather try to get someone with more skill. Lucic is not a top line winger (unless, like MM9, he's there to be the grit guy with two skill guys).
Not saying Lucic doesn't have skill, just saying he's a very skilled power forward, not a pure skill guy.
Nash and Ryan are way more skilled and still probably close to as gritty.
they are live at 7pm on cbc.ca and are on a 1hour delay at 8pm on tv.
unless you can avoid all social media, id watch it online.
How can the Rangers afford Nash?
Richards (6.6, Gaborik (7.5), Lundqvist (6.875) and then Nash.. (7.8) are all have a large cap hit..
That may be okay for now.. but as there young prospects need raises.. it puts the squeeze on..
Simple - They will trade all their young prospects for Nash.
And Dubinsky:
Hockey Break @HockeyBreak
After speaking with sources, I do not believe Brandon Dubinsky will remain a New York Ranger. Could be moved at the #2012NHLDraft
How do you tell on that site, I never noticed?
Not that I'm going anywhere with this but has it been determined if EK65 has a NTC?
He also said the Rangers are the front-runners for Nash.. and the Leafs want to move up the 2nd overall and deal with Columbus to do that.. I hope they like trading away Gardiner.. as that what it would probably take.
There's a little lock beside their name (only on the team list though).
Nash for example:
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=13
moe mentioned that its on cbc.ca but at 8 on tv because of a 1 hour time delay or something
as i mentioned on comment #154
it is on cbc.ca at 7pm.
8pm on tv
edit: sorry just saw greening updated you
ya, I thought it started at 8? was waiting anxiously to see that
TomSENS @TomSENS
For those asking, the awards are live online and will be tape delayed on CBC at 8. Apparently they are live on channel 125 on Rogers too
Zibanejad was a 2011 pick you donkey.. Again, Ottawa's 2011 first round pick "MIKA ZIBANEJAD" nick foligno and Ben bishop for Rick Nash.
He was explaining your post to me telling me we're in 2012 now. So I wouldn't call him a donkey as he was essentially backing you up.
Though considering this "news" you posted was older than dust you shouldn't get too bent out of shape that people were confused by it - you presented it as if it would be breaking news.
very well deserved!
congrats to the stache on the nomination!
Good player but we won't draft this guy. Craig Button is a freakin moron.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=9356
amazing 2way center. but some question his offencive upside. it may be what holds him off from being a top 6 guy. but has great size.
heard some comparisions to ryan kesler
Lots of props on cbc.ca and twitter to MacLean - many people thought he could win it.
ok pass from what you all have said...fringe top 6..nada..need bonafide top 6..forget it
Well yeah okay we would have picked Nuge but you know what I mean.
Here are the PHWA voting totals for Erik Karlsson: Erik Karlsson, OTT 1,069 (66-31-32-9-5) . Five fifth place votes? Those writers are jokes
Pseudo celebs and hockey players reading a teleprompter (apparently with no rehearsals at all).
Hartnell is awesome though.
EK, breaking the mold in all kinds of ways.
but pacioretty's story is pretty amazing
congrats alfie!
god bless this man
He would be top 5, but only if Ottawa as a team way successful and winning.