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  • Right Back In It

    (UPDATE 10:23 AM)- Appropriate timing I would say.  This morning, the NHL announced that Ottawa Senators Captain Daniel Alfredsson has been nominated for the Mark Messier Leadership Award.  Pretty special year for Alfie as he has helped lead a team that looked down and out after a series of injuries, to the 2nd round of the playoffs.  A well deserved honour for the best Captain in the game.  Jonathan Toews and Dustin Brown are the other nominees.

    Written on Monday, 20 May 2013 03:38
    Comments (16) Read 762 times
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Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:20

Sens Pick up a Point in Montreal

With the NHL's regular season nearing a conclusion, every point is huge for the Ottawa Senators.

While the Montreal Canadiens got the best of the Sens in the shootout, Ottawa was able to earn an important single point in tonight's 3-2 loss to the Habs.  The point allows the Sens to pull within a single point of the Boston Bruins for the Northeast division lead.

And for those fans that can't help but look in the rearview, the Senators hold a seven point lead over the the ninth place Buffalo Sabres.

The Sens came out flying in this one and looked fantastic in the opening frame.  Unfortunately the Sens were unable to sustain that pressure over the full sixty and found themselves down 2-1 after an early third period goal by David Desharnais.

Ben Bishop was strong in the Ottawa net and kept the Sens in the hockey game with a number of key stops.

With less than nine minutes left to play, it was Erik Karlsson that beat Carey Price with a perfectly placed wrist shot that ensured the Senators would not leave Montreal empty handed.  The goal was Karlsson's 19th of the season, tying him with Steve Duchesne for the franchise record.  It was also Karlsson's 70th point on the campaign.

The Sens had a couple fantastic chances to win the game in the extra frame, including a missed open net by Matt Gilroy.  Carey Price stopped all three Sens in the shootout to secure the extra point for the home side.

For those of you that were not following along on Twitter, I was unable to update the site the past couple days while I was in Toronto.  Had quite the experience at Pearson Airport as I was the last person to board the flight after getting caught up in the end of the Sens game.  Considering I had already switched to a later flight to watch the game, it's a good thing this game didn't go to extra shooters!

We'll get back on track around here tomorrow as the Sens get set for back to back home games against the Canadiens and Maple Leafs.

  • I can see it was discussed in the last comment thread but the Senators dipped into the NCAA free agent pool, signing forward Cole Schneider to a two year, two way contract.  Schneider will report to the Binghamton Senators an an amateur tryout.
  • More good news on the prospect front as Jakob SIlfverberg was named MVP in the Swedish Elite League. Silfverberg finished the season with 24 goals and 54 points in 49 games.  As we mentioned earlier in the week, Silfverberg is interested in returning to Ottawa for the playoffs when his SEL season wraps up.

Comments   Jump to Last Post

 
+5 #1 Paunch Imlach 2012-03-14 23:35
A tourist wanders into a back-alley antique shop in San Francisco's Chinatown. Picking through the
objects on display he discovers a detailed, life-sized bronze sculpture of a rat.

"You can keep the story, old man," he replies, "but I'll take the rat." The transaction complete, the
tourist leaves the store with the bronze rat under his arm.

As he crosses the street in front of the store, two live rats emerge from a sewer drain and fall into step
behind him. Nervously looking over his shoulder, he begins to walk faster, but every time he passes
another sewer drain, more rats come out and follow him. By the time he's walked two blocks, at least a
hundred rats are at his heels, and people begin to point and shout. He walks even faster, and soon
breaks into a trot as multitudes of rats swarm from sewers, basements, vacant lots, and abandoned
cars. Rats by the thousands are at his heels, and as he sees the waterfront at the bottom of the hill, he
panics and starts to run full tilt. No matter how fast he runs, the rats keep up, squealing hideously, now
not just thousands but millions, so that by the time he comes rushing up to the water's edge a trail of
rats twelve city blocks long is behind him.

Making a mighty leap, he jumps up onto a light post, grasping it with one arm while he hurls the bronze
rat into San Francisco Bay with the other, as far as he can heave it. Pulling his legs up and clinging to
the light post, he watches in amazement as the seething tide of rats surges over the breakwater into
the sea, where they drown.

Shaken and mumbling, he makes his way back to the antique shop. "Ah, so you've come back for the
rest of the story," says the owner.

"No," says the tourist, "I was wondering if you have a statue of a Toronto Maple Leaf fan."
Quote
 
 
0 #2 Luke McQueen 2012-03-15 00:12
Bishop seriously needs to work on his rebound control. I like the guy, has tons of potential bit man does he toss out some juicy ones.
Let's catch Boston and win the division!
Go Sens Go!
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-1 #3 meadowdog  2012-03-15 00:25
Quoting Luke McQueen:
Bishop seriously needs to work on his rebound control. I like the guy, has tons of potential bit man does he toss out some juicy ones.


Yeah - what a rookie - only got us 6 points in 4 games.

Time for Alex Auld to get the next start.
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+2 #4 JohnMarc 2012-03-15 00:52
What a weird match. They played so well in the first half of the match but we didn't capitalized on our chances. It was one of Bishop's best game so far. He was great and without him we would've lost. God I hate the habs ! I hate them more then the Leafs if that is possible. 70 pts for Karlsson they'll need to find some really bad excuses to not give him the Norris, he played such a good game on both ends.
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0 #5 N8ball85 2012-03-15 01:16
Quoting Paunch Imlach:
A tourist wanders into a back-alley antique shop in San Francisco's Chinatown. Picking through the
objects on display he discovers a detailed, life-sized bronze sculpture of a rat.

"You can keep the story, old man," he replies, "but I'll take the rat." The transaction complete, the
tourist leaves the store with the bronze rat under his arm.

As he crosses the street in front of the store, two live rats emerge from a sewer drain and fall into step
behind him. Nervously looking over his shoulder, he begins to walk faster, but every time he passes
another sewer drain, more rats come out and follow him. By the time he's walked two blocks, at least ......, basements, vacant lots, and abandoned
cars. Rats by the thousands are at his heels, and as he sees the waterfront at the bottom of the hill, he
panics and starts to run full tilt. No matter how fast he runs, the rats keep up, squealing hideously, now
not just thousands but millions, so that by the time he comes rushing up to the water's edge a trail of
rats twelve city blocks long is behind him.

Making a mighty leap, he jumps up onto a light post, grasping it with one arm while he hurls the bronze
rat into San Francisco Bay with the other, as far as he can heave it. Pulling his legs up and clinging to
the light post, he watches in amazement as the seething tide of rats surges over the breakwater into
the sea, where they drown.

Shaken and mumbling, he makes his way back to the antique shop. "Ah, so you've come back for the
rest of the story," says the owner.

"No," says the tourist, "I was wondering if you have a statue of a Toronto Maple Leaf fan."

Heard this joke many years ago only with a sick racial/prejudic e punch line glad to see its been recycled with a little more class !
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0 #6 NickG 2012-03-15 04:38
I take full responsibility for this loss, guys.

I saw maybe 5 minutes of this game (as I was watching a very important Jets game), and in that time I saw 2 Habs goals and Gilroy miss the net.

I am really sick and tired of Gilroy. He is bar-none our worst liability. I've heard nothing but good things about him, but seen nothing but bad passes, missed shots, and lazy skating. I sincerely hope he gets scratched for Carkner.

As for Bishop, he sure played well from what I saw of the highlights. Keep in mind, being as huge as he is, just means his five-hole is also that much larger. Pretty sure all 2(+1) goals against him were in there. That being said, man is he quick at covering it.

Let's help the Habs get "Scatterbrain Yakupov" on Friday!
Go Sens Go!
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-6 #7 lbernier 2012-03-15 06:19
I am pretty sure they will start Auld Friday and Bishop Saturday or the other way around, either way I think Auld will get a start this weekend, back to back games coming up so Bishop will not play both.
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-1 #8 CarloswSPECR1 2012-03-15 06:32
Quoting meadowdog :
Quoting Luke McQueen:
Bishop seriously needs to work on his rebound control. I like the guy, has tons of potential bit man does he toss out some juicy ones.


Yeah - what a rookie - only got us 6 points in 4 games.

Time for Alex Auld to get the next start.


I can't help but feel that there's a tone of a sarcasm in your post :P
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-1 #9 Dr Demento 2012-03-15 07:10
I wish I could join the Bishop love-fest but I just can't do it. He reminds me of Gerber too much. He seems to get in the way of the puck as oppossed to making saves. His rebound control is poor, he bobbles the rebounds that fall in front of him, he looks out of position much of the time, he does not smother the puck when his team needs a whistle. To be a success, a team would need to build their entire defensive stategy around covering up his rebounds.

I do like his stick handling abilities :)

Ya, he is still a rookie and should get better but I just do not like that style of goaltending. I much prefer Lehner. I think Bihop will make a real fine back-up goalie
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+1 #10 Fish 2012-03-15 07:38
I know the NHL needs to protect the goalies but those were some brutal goalie interference calls last night. Not sure how no one was called for diving last night and that includes the love tap that EK65 got and fell to the ice in a heap.

I'll be at the game on Friday and let's hope for a better outcome.
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-1 #11 TheBoss 2012-03-15 07:41
Quoting Luke McQueen:
Bishop seriously needs to work on his rebound control. I like the guy, has tons of potential bit man does he toss out some juicy ones.
Let's catch Boston and win the division!
Go Sens Go!


To be honest, his rebound control is at least better than Lehner's. You could definitely tell Ben Bishop has had his share of seasoning in the AHL. I love the way Lehner plays but there were times where I just kept thinking "Buddy, this isn't the OHL. You can't be making mistakes like that" but I remembered he's still a rookie, and the mistakes will be minimized..

In other news, this morning's front page of the Toronto sun is "Leafs are a monumental disaster: What went wrong in a season where everything was supposed to be right?"

LOL oh boy.. where to start?
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0 #12 SNOOPY SENIOR 2012-03-15 08:01
Well earned 1 point, in a game where the Habs, once again played the spoiler role, like Sens did last year !

Next game in Ottawa, vs those same Habs, will be crucial in stopping another losing skid, which could send the Sens in a deep hole, just before the playoffs!

MacLean will make the necessary adjustments to ensure that the team gets back on track.

Who will get the start on Friday vs the Habs , and who plays in goal on Saturday vs the Leafs ??

If Sens lose on Friday, does he recall Lehner for the game on Saturday vs Toronto ??

I hope we win both games, to start another winning streak,and move up in final standings !
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+1 #13 issa 2012-03-15 08:15
If we keep getting points while boston keeps getting nothing, we'll eventually catch up. i would like to see mcclean try different shooters since we have recently been losing shootouts.
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0 #14 billlin 2012-03-15 08:22
Hey guys,
Interesting Discussion topic. What are Alfy's chances of getting the following awards?

1) Bridgestone Messier trophy who goes "to the player who exemplifies great leadership qualities to his team, on and off the ice during the regular season."

OR

2)Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy which goes to the player "who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey."

And why hasn't Alfy won these trophies before?? It seems to me that those two trophies describe him to a tee.
Quote
 
 
0 #15 Tookie 2012-03-15 08:25
Quoting issa:
If we keep getting points while boston keeps getting nothing, we'll eventually catch up. i would like to see mcclean try different shooters since we have recently been losing shootouts.


I was ok withthe shooters, hell they are the best in the League at it, Alfie was 5 for 5, Spezza was 5 for 8, Michalek I dont remember...

It was just half assed, especially Alfie and Spezza, you dont shoot on a big goalie like Price, you have to make him move, Alfie and Spezza shot right on the guy...

MTL played better than us and if not for Bishop early on we probably get behind and lose.
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0 #16 hello_gary 2012-03-15 08:37
Quoting Tookie19:
Quoting issa:
If we keep getting points while boston keeps getting nothing, we'll eventually catch up. i would like to see mcclean try different shooters since we have recently been losing shootouts.



MTL played better than us and if not for Bishop early on we probably get behind and lose.



Ah I don't know about that - I would say Ottawa was a notch above them in the 1st, sadly the 2nd and 3rd were pretty close I thought. Good, fast paced hockey, too bad we didn't get the W but whatever.

Suprised that no one has said anything about Mt. Cowen's little tilt! I thought it was pretty great to see.
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0 #17 Kinger 2012-03-15 08:38
Owell we got a point out of it can't say I'm disappointed but... this is how I felt when Giltoy missed the open net. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnvalwBhy8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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0 #18 SNOOPY SENIOR 2012-03-15 08:42
Quoting Tookie19:
Quoting issa:
If we keep getting points while boston keeps getting nothing, we'll eventually catch up. i would like to see mcclean try different shooters since we have recently been losing shootouts.


I was ok withthe shooters, hell they are the best in the League at it, Alfie was 5 for 5, Spezza was 5 for 8, Michalek I dont remember...

It was just half assed, especially Alfie and Spezza, you dont shoot on a big goalie like Price, you have to make him move, Alfie and Spezza shot right on the guy...

MTL played better than us and if not for Bishop early on we probably get behind and lose.


Hey Tookie,

Agree with you on choice of shooters for the shootout.
Michalek is now 3 for 9, after last night's poke check by Price>
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0 #19 Johnny T 2012-03-15 08:55
where was the Bingo line last night? smith / daug / condra didn't see much ice time and can't blame it on too many penalties. the whole team seemed to be fighting the puck.

did McLean say anything about why he wasn't rolling 4 lines?
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-2 #20 Junk-a-lot 2012-03-15 09:02
Those fucken canadians .... no team , and they beat us again in OT . Oh what a nasty loss that was .

Apart form Gilroy not delivering , and getting played too much , Lehner is the one getting a treatement , he doesnt deserve . Kid won us 2 big games , and down we send him to the american league again . this is what is gonna kill him with us . Lehner is our man , way ahead of Bishop . Guys , masturbating on Bishop forget that he will ALWAYS get beat in that fashion .

Five Hole ....

Bring Lehner back , and watch him kick .
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0 #21 SensChirp 2012-03-15 09:03
Quoting Johnny T:
where was the Bingo line last night? smith / daug / condra didn't see much ice time and can't blame it on too many penalties. the whole team seemed to be fighting the puck.

did McLean say anything about why he wasn't rolling 4 lines?

Smith was actually skating on the left wing with Turris and Alfie for a few shifts in the third period.
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0 #22 TheBoss 2012-03-15 09:10
Quoting billlin:
Hey guys,
Interesting Discussion topic. What are Alfy's chances of getting the following awards?

1) Bridgestone Messier trophy who goes "to the player who exemplifies great leadership qualities to his team, on and off the ice during the regular season."

OR

2)Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy which goes to the player "who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey."

And why hasn't Alfy won these trophies before?? It seems to me that those two trophies describe him to a tee.


Look at the past winners, and you will see why Alfie has not won it. Winners who have overcome serious health issues, and personal issues. Not saying Alfie hasn't been through a lot but..
Teamu Selanne: Major Knee Surgery
Kessel: Testicular Cancer
Jason Blake: Mild leukaemia
Sullivan: Fragmented disc in back
Jose Theodore: Overcame son's death
Ian Laperriere: Post-concussion symptoms but still helped the team in some way

This year's winner will be either Emery (for his come back) or Manny Malhotra (his eye).
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-2 #23 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 09:19
Re: Messier and masterton

Correct to @theboss

Masterton will go to the chokey player deemed to overcome the most. Each team nominated one player, and then the legaue picks 3 to attend the awards show and names one winner.

My guesses for final three:
Crosby (He has to be at awards show right?)
Perron (Year away from NHL for concussion as well)
Malholtra (his eye)

As for the Messier Leadership award, this one is relatively new, and I could very well see Alfie winning it. I believe Chara won it last year

3 nominees I would give it to are Alfie, Whitney or Doan and Toews
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-1 #24 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 09:28
I'm getting pretty frustrated with people harping on our new additions. Both Bishop and Gilroy have played greatbsince coming back. Yes Gilroy missed an open net...shit happens! He has been done nothing but add speed and skill to our bottom pair. We now have 3 d pairs that can move the ouch very effectively to the forwards. For all you Lee lovers, this guy is miles ahead of where Lee will ever be in terms of moving the puck. Everything else Lee did well, Gilroy does just as well or better. He has waayyy more natural skill than Lee and after a full training camp with his teammates and coaches, he will start to really turn heads.
As for Bishop. It honestly shocks me that people aren't astonished by him. He is 2-0-2 for us and on more than one occasion has legit kept us in the game. If this guy was a proven vet and making 4-5 million he'd still be earning his money. He has been that good. We could have really fallen out of a playoff spot with this Anderson injury. We depend on a 21 and 25 year old to carry team in to the playoffs. That's pretty intense if you ask me. Ya Bishops's style is a little different, but that's because he's friggin huge! He can't be all acrobatic and stuff. His game is to be big in net and let the ouch hit him. And he has done an awesome job. Yes he does give up some rebounds. But what I have noticed is he knows. When to cover the ouch up. He feels when the team is under pressure or tired and he does everything he can to jump out and get the puck. On top of that, he has probably the best stick handling any Sens goalie has ever had. You can already see the defencemen adjusting their game be ause they essentially now have a 3rd partner back there. In a lot of situations he makes everyone's life a lot easier.
I agree Lehner will still prob be our starter down the road but Bishop is clearly very good and I would personally love to see him as our backup for years to come
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+3 #25 Sensnation 2012-03-15 09:31
I find it interesting the excuses people will use to justify Bishop over Lehner. If Bishop makes a mistake it's because he's still learning in the NHL. If it's Lehner it's cause he's immature and not ready. Look, Bishop is a good goaltender, but he is not better than Lehner. He's ok to ride out this year while Anderson is injured, and could 1 day start consistently in the NHL, but for another team. I'm glad we're having success with all of our goalies, but people need to stop making weak excuses for Bishop and then using the same situations as knocks against Lehner.
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+1 #26 Tcharger 2012-03-15 09:33
I agree 100% on Bishop....Gilro y on the otherhand I am 100% disagreeing. He looks totally lost and I don't thinking he has shown any more offensive upside than Lee....that being said I understand he is new to the team/system and that takes getting used too.

But he has done absolutely nothing since coming over to impress me.
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0 #27 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 09:39
Quoting Tcharger:
I agree 100% on Bishop....Gilroy on the otherhand I am 100% disagreeing. He looks totally lost and I don't thinking he has shown any more offensive upside than Lee....that being said I understand he is new to the team/system and that takes getting used too.

But he has done absolutely nothing since coming over to impress me.


On the flip side, has he done anything to worry you and not make you trust him (please don't mention missing an open net)

He is a 3rd pairing D, the fact he doesn't impress you or isn't noticed is not a bad thing at all. We have karlsson to impress you, we just need a dman that we can send over the boards for 15 min a game and one that we can trust - which Gilroy is and does
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0 #28 Tcharger 2012-03-15 09:48
I suppose...I guess I just see the move as unilateral at best. Personally when you are down to the 3rd/4th d pairing though I am not as concerned with first passes(although they are needed) as I am about solid sdefence...whic h I think Lee is stronger at.
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0 #29 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 09:48
Quoting Tcharger:
I agree 100% on Bishop....Gilroy on the otherhand I am 100% disagreeing. He looks totally lost and I don't thinking he has shown any more offensive upside than Lee....that being said I understand he is new to the team/system and that takes getting used too.

But he has done absolutely nothing since coming over to impress me.



Can you explain what Lee brought to the team as far as offense goes??
What his 1 goal??
His lack of skating ability?
His weak passing?

Point is he didn't fit in with what Maclean wants from his D. PM like a veteran playing with a younger player. He also like an offensive defenceman who can skate and move the puck alongside a stay at hone defenseman.

Lee was supposed to be an offensive young guy to play with Phillips. It wasn't to be solid defensively. We have Carkner for that. Lee was asked to provide offense on his pairing. He never brought that to the ice. The only thing he improved on this year was a decrease in the number of turnovers. That's the only reason people on here were getting upset that Lee wasn't getting dressed. I'm sorry he didn't improve his game at all. The only thing he did was stop doing risky plays which I'm sorry isn't enough to stay in the NHL. He wasn't doing what the coaches were asking of him(aka bring offense) therefore eventually you will be traded for someone who does. The critics will say.. Oh but Gilroy missed an open net or that he hasn't had many points with us yet. This may be true but just watch him play. Whatch the little things. Just the fact he can skate probably makes PM love him. He almost always makes a solid first pass. Clearly why he got so much ice time in OT. Skating and good passing. I'm sorry but if you chiro the guy, you don't know hockey
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0 #30 Sensnation 2012-03-15 09:52
Quoting Alcatraz:
Quoting Tcharger:
I agree 100% on Bishop....Gilroy on the otherhand I am 100% disagreeing. He looks totally lost and I don't thinking he has shown any more offensive upside than Lee....that being said I understand he is new to the team/system and that takes getting used too.

But he has done absolutely nothing since coming over to impress me.


On the flip side, has he done anything to worry you and not make you trust him (please don't mention missing an open net)

He is a 3rd pairing D, the fact he doesn't impress you or isn't noticed is not a bad thing at all. We have karlsson to impress you, we just need a dman that we can send over the boards for 15 min a game and one that we can trust - which Gilroy is and does


Yes, Gilroy is very porous defensively! He and Lee are pretty much polar opposites. Gilroy is offensive with a bit of D, Lee was defensive with a bit of O.
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+2 #31 Tcharger 2012-03-15 09:56
Lee didn't do what he was asked???? Did you just start watching the Sens? When he was drafted/origina lly he was considered an offensive d man...he was asked to become and focus more on becoming defensively sound...which he did. His responsibility was not to score.

I am not giving up on Gilroy...I suspect he will be better next season with a full trailing camp and summer of development with the team.
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0 #32 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 10:02
Remember when we drafted Lee? Everyone said he would be the Redden. A guy who is solid at both ends but is able to be one of the go-to-guys in terms if bringing offence from the back end. Redden was probably the best 1st passer we ever had until Karlsson. Lee was supposed to replace that. Did he in any way show you he can be that guy. To me he was completely ineffective.

The best is when people said we were 12-1 or something along those lines when Lee was in the lineup since the all star break. Thats an actual joke. The guy plaid what like 10min a game? I'd give Auld's ass warming the bench more value than that

I for one am glad we have Gilroy now. Yet another brilliant move on Bryan Murray's part
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0 #33 SwedishSens 2012-03-15 10:02
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/13911/zibanejad_new_number_one_in_ottawa_senators_top20/
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-1 #34 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 10:05
Quoting Tcharger:
Lee didn't do what he was asked???? Did you just start watching the Sens? When he was drafted/originally he was considered an offensive d man...he was asked to become and focus more on becoming defensively sound...which he did. His responsibility was not to score.

I am not giving up on Gilroy...I suspect he will be better next season with a full trailing camp and summer of development with the team.



When the coaches ask you to be more defensively sound it does not mean become a shutdown Dman. It just means learn to not get undressed every time you're on the ice(just like Karlsson did). He was still supposed to be an offensive defenseman. Like i said earlier, PM wants an offensive guy with a stay at home guy on every pairing. I'm pretty sure you can't argue Lee was that guy
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-7 #35 Daybreak Maidenhead 2012-03-15 10:13
Quoting Junk-a-lot:
Those fucken canadians .... no team , and they beat us again in OT . Oh what a nasty loss that was .

Apart form Gilroy not delivering , and getting played too much , Lehner is the one getting a treatement , he doesnt deserve . Kid won us 2 big games , and down we send him to the american league again . this is what is gonna kill him with us . Lehner is our man , way ahead of Bishop . Guys , masturbating on Bishop forget that he will ALWAYS get beat in that fashion .

Five Hole ....

Bring Lehner back , and watch him kick .



FREEBIRD !
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-2 #36 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:15
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Quoting Tcharger:
Lee didn't do what he was asked???? Did you just start watching the Sens? When he was drafted/originally he was considered an offensive d man...he was asked to become and focus more on becoming defensively sound...which he did. His responsibility was not to score.

I am not giving up on Gilroy...I suspect he will be better next season with a full trailing camp and summer of development with the team.



When the coaches ask you to be more defensively sound it does not mean become a shutdown Dman. It just means learn to not get undressed every time you're on the ice(just like Karlsson did). He was still supposed to be an offensive defenseman. Like i said earlier, PM wants an offensive guy with a stay at home guy on every pairing. I'm pretty sure you can't argue Lee was that guy


You do realize Phillips was drafted as an offensive dman too right? Not all guys translate to that level of offense at the NHL level no matter their success in the lower leagues. Lee still has offensive ability, plenty for a 6th Dman and his defensive game had become reliable.
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0 #37 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 10:18
Quoting Sensnation:
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Quoting Tcharger:
Lee didn't do what he was asked???? Did you just start watching the Sens? When he was drafted/originally he was considered an offensive d man...he was asked to become and focus more on becoming defensively sound...which he did. His responsibility was not to score.

I am not giving up on Gilroy...I suspect he will be better next season with a full trailing camp and summer of development with the team.



When the coaches ask you to be more defensively sound it does not mean become a shutdown Dman. It just means learn to not get undressed every time you're on the ice(just like Karlsson did). He was still supposed to be an offensive defenseman. Like i said earlier, PM wants an offensive guy with a stay at home guy on every pairing. I'm pretty sure you can't argue Lee was that guy


You do realize Phillips was drafted as an offensive dman too right? Not all guys translate to that level of offense at the NHL level no matter their success in the lower leagues. Lee still has offensive ability, plenty for a 6th Dman and his defensive game had become reliable.


Thats awesome, prob the best post of the day.

Phillips was never drafted to be an offensive dman. Sure we used him as a forward for a few games when he was young, but he was never "offensive" His highest output in the WHL was 10 goals in one year. nice try bud
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0 #38 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:18
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Remember when we drafted Lee? Everyone said he would be the Redden. A guy who is solid at both ends but is able to be one of the go-to-guys in terms if bringing offence from the back end. Redden was probably the best 1st passer we ever had until Karlsson. Lee was supposed to replace that. Did he in any way show you he can be that guy. To me he was completely ineffective.

The best is when people said we were 12-1 or something along those lines when Lee was in the lineup since the all star break. Thats an actual joke. The guy plaid what like 10min a game? I'd give Auld's ass warming the bench more value than that

I for one am glad we have Gilroy now. Yet another brilliant move on Bryan Murray's part


I'm not against the trade, it's a 6th dman after all and neither are looking like career Senators, but nothing about that trade was brilliant. It was a trade of spare parts.
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+2 #39 boom 2012-03-15 10:20
Quoting Daybreak Maidenhead:
Quoting Junk-a-lot:
Those fucken canadians .... no team , and they beat us again in OT . Oh what a nasty loss that was .

Apart form Gilroy not delivering , and getting played too much , Lehner is the one getting a treatement , he doesnt deserve . Kid won us 2 big games , and down we send him to the american league again . this is what is gonna kill him with us . Lehner is our man , way ahead of Bishop . Guys , masturbating on Bishop forget that he will ALWAYS get beat in that fashion .

Five Hole ....

Bring Lehner back , and watch him kick .



FREEBIRD !

Please go away.
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0 #40 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:22
Quoting Alcatraz:
Quoting Sensnation:
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Quoting Tcharger:
Lee didn't do what he was asked???? Did you just start watching the Sens? When he was drafted/originally he was considered an offensive d man...he was asked to become and focus more on becoming defensively sound...which he did. His responsibility was not to score.

I am not giving up on Gilroy...I suspect he will be better next season with a full trailing camp and summer of development with the team.



When the coaches ask you to be more defensively sound it does not mean become a shutdown Dman. It just means learn to not get undressed every time you're on the ice(just like Karlsson did). He was still supposed to be an offensive defenseman. Like i said earlier, PM wants an offensive guy with a stay at home guy on every pairing. I'm pretty sure you can't argue Lee was that guy


You do realize Phillips was drafted as an offensive dman too right? Not all guys translate to that level of offense at the NHL level no matter their success in the lower leagues. Lee still has offensive ability, plenty for a 6th Dman and his defensive game had become reliable.


Thats awesome, prob the best post of the day.

Phillips was never drafted to be an offensive dman. Sure we used him as a forward for a few games when he was young, but he was never "offensive" His highest output in the WHL was 10 goals in one year. nice try bud


Haha, so wrong buddy. 10 goals and 40 points in the season before he was drafted. If you were around at that time he was being talked about as an offensive prospect with good D.

You are a great example of posters on here who make false statements without knowing the facts behind them. Not trying to start anything here, but if you're calling someone else out you may want to make sure you know what you're talking about.
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0 #41 TheBoss 2012-03-15 10:23
Quoting boom:
Quoting Daybreak Maidenhead:
Quoting Junk-a-lot:
Those fucken canadians .... no team , and they beat us again in OT . Oh what a nasty loss that was .

Apart form Gilroy not delivering , and getting played too much , Lehner is the one getting a treatement , he doesnt deserve . Kid won us 2 big games , and down we send him to the american league again . this is what is gonna kill him with us . Lehner is our man , way ahead of Bishop . Guys , masturbating on Bishop forget that he will ALWAYS get beat in that fashion .

Five Hole ....

Bring Lehner back , and watch him kick .



FREEBIRD !

Please go away.


If it's not "FREEBIRD" its 'EEEEEYOOOOOOOR EE"..
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+2 #42 miguel 2012-03-15 10:28
Quoting Tcharger:
I agree 100% on Bishop....Gilroy on the otherhand I am 100% disagreeing. He looks totally lost and I don't thinking he has shown any more offensive upside than Lee....that being said I understand he is new to the team/system and that takes getting used too.

But he has done absolutely nothing since coming over to impress me.


My sentiments exactly! and let me start bu saying I was a Lee fan...
we already have too many SOFT "puck moving d-men" (I hate that expression - if you cant move the puck, you cant play in the NHL!)
key is SOFT - Gonchar, Kuba, Karlsson, dont get me wrong 2 of the three make up for it, but to add another soft D-man is just very short sited.
A forechecking team ie Boston will have a field day dumping in and slaming our soft D into oblivion.
Lee may not have had the finesse, but for over a year he was excellent at retrieving th puck in a dump and getting it back out,
take a look at Stamkos' 50th, Tampa was hemmed in their own end, Lee takes a hit to get it up to St Louis, and then to Stamkos for the goal... is that not puck moving?

I fear Gilroy will fail his trial, not be resigned, and we lose a decetn first rounder, who was starting to show his promise for nothing.... IMO only of course
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0 #43 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 10:32
@sensnation

I was around back then, and he was not an offensive dman prospect. 40 pts yes before he got drafted, but rarley do big dmen from the WHL ever get drafted for their offensive prowness. 10g 30a is not a huge number for a #1 overall dman. When your a high prospect you dominate at the lower leagues, and just off that dominance did Chris get his points.

Even now Phillips can handle the offensive zone as he is not a bad skater, but to say we drafted him as an offensive defensive is not accurate at all. He was an all round dman, who had size, and can skate. But he was never going to be a guy we relied on to play PP - ever
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0 #44 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:36
Quoting Alcatraz:
@sensnation

I was around back then, and he was not an offensive dman prospect. 40 pts yes before he got drafted, but rarley do big dmen from the WHL ever get drafted for their offensive prowness. 10g 30a is not a huge number for a #1 overall dman. When your a high prospect you dominate at the lower leagues, and just off that dominance did Chris get his points.

Even now Phillips can handle the offensive zone as he is not a bad skater, but to say we drafted him as an offensive defensive is not accurate at all. He was an all round dman, who had size, and can skate. But he was never going to be a guy we relied on to play PP - ever


He isn't, but he was. He was expected to be a lot more offensive at the NHL level than he is. He's great, and I'm glad we have him, but you are mistaken on what type of prospect he was. I'm not saying he was Karlsson levels of offense, as he was much more complete all around, but he was expected to man the PP with Redden.
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+2 #45 Floridasensfan 2012-03-15 10:36
Seriously you guys are talking about Lee.

Give Gilroy a chance, he goofed on the open net, big deal, these things happen.
I like him way better than Lee, no way Lee would have been near the net to even get a chance at missing it.

Seriously I do not get the Lee love on here
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+1 #46 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 10:37
On the flipside, Lee was drafted as a pure smoothe skating offensive dman. Thats why muckler jumped for him, because he thought we may lose chara or redden and lee was the contingency

Lee has failed in every aspect of being a 1st rounder (regardless who we passed up or where he was taken)

Lee was finally coming around a little bit, but again in very small sample sizes. what 14 games? He wasn't very strong on the puck, wasn't really good at anything, but not bad at the same time. If we kept him sure thats fine by me, but moving him for Gilroy is not bad either

All I know is that Lee has had the chance to impres Murray Hartsburgh, Clouston and Maclean, and for some reaosn he couldn't impress any of them, where as Gilroy was highly sought after by many teams, and Maclean and Murray both like him, and that means something
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0 #47 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 10:37
I love how the best thing someone can say about Lee is that he was good at retrieving the puck along the boards and getting it back out.

Do you hear what you're saying my man??

There isn't a single player in the NHL who isn't capable of doing that.
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0 #48 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:39
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
I love how the best thing someone can say about Lee is that he was good at retrieving the puck along the boards and getting it back out.

Do you hear what you're saying my man??

There isn't a single player in the NHL who isn't capable of doing that.


Carkner!
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0 #49 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 10:40
Quoting Alcatraz:
On the flipside, Lee was drafted as a pure smoothe skating offensive dman. Thats why muckler jumped for him, because he thought we may lose chara or redden and lee was the contingency

Lee has failed in every aspect of being a 1st rounder (regardless who we passed up or where he was taken)

Lee was finally coming around a little bit, but again in very small sample sizes. what 14 games? He wasn't very strong on the puck, wasn't really good at anything, but not bad at the same time. If we kept him sure thats fine by me, but moving him for Gilroy is not bad either

All I know is that Lee has had the chance to impres Murray Hartsburgh, Clouston and Maclean, and for some reaosn he couldn't impress any of them, where as Gilroy was highly sought after by many teams, and Maclean and Murray both like him, and that means something



Very very well said my man!!
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+2 #50 The Apostle 2012-03-15 10:41
Quoting miguel:
I fear Gilroy will fail his trial, not be resigned, and we lose a decetn first rounder, who was starting to show his promise for nothing.... IMO only of course


A succession of coaches didn't rate Lee enough to consistently play him - even once he had a 1 way deal. They can't all be completely wrong about the guy. They did get to see him every day after all.

Murray and MacLean clearly didn't rate him and even more clearly didn't see him as part of the future.

We traded him for a look at a dman that Murray had his eye on. I'd much rather get a free 15-20 game view of a guy at close quarters (on-ice, dressing room etc etc) than take even a relatively risk free gamble on signing him next year..

Even if Gilroy doesn't sign next year I think it was a decent, if inconsequential , trade.

I didn't really think Lee was worthy of intensive discussion whilst he was a senator, there is even less reason now he's left.
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0 #51 The Apostle 2012-03-15 10:44
Quoting Alcatraz:
All I know is that Lee has had the chance to impres Murray Hartsburgh, Clouston and Maclean, and for some reaosn he couldn't impress any of them, where as Gilroy was highly sought after by many teams, and Maclean and Murray both like him, and that means something


you forgot Paddock - although in your defence, I wish I could too
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0 #52 Boivo 2012-03-15 10:45
There is so much negative bullshit on here lately. I read everyday and its becoming much more difficult to enjoy. Why create drama on here, its getting ridiculous.
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0 #53 Tcharger 2012-03-15 10:48
See although I am not a fan of the trade, I do agree with The Apostle, it was abundantly clear that Lee was not in our long term(or even short term plans, so if we were able to essentially try someone else...why not.

I just don't see Gilroy as a step up, or an improvement, or as someone. Who is significantly better than any of our other d prospects or that will really fill a hole in our depth charts

Sorry for the crappy posting...my phone is driving me nuts today
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0 #54 miguel 2012-03-15 10:49
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
I love how the best thing someone can say about Lee is that he was good at retrieving the puck along the boards and getting it back out.

Do you hear what you're saying my man??

There isn't a single player in the NHL who isn't capable of doing that.


Really????
have you seen how many times Gonchar tries to hide on a dump, and let the forechecker go first to the puck????
There are two ends of the ice, our D is great on one side, and too weak on the other side.

Again, I love how Kuba has turned it around, and I love what Karlsson has done,
BUT if Boston dumps the puck in, and Lucic is coming in on the forecheck, who on Ottawa's D will win that puck....
you can count it on one finger... Cowen, then maybe Philips, but Gonch, Kuba, Karlsson, and now Gilroy, will not be able to find a place to hide...
And yes Lee would take that hit and battle to win that puck,
sorry I disagree, we did not need another SOFT D in our back end...again IMO only of course...
Also Philips in Junior was considered a very strong D-man who had offensive talents as well... anyone remember him at the World Juniors, he considered offensive.
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0 #55 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 10:50
And I'm sorry but Phillips has never been looked at as an offensive defenceman. Sure in the WHL he played on the PP and sure he got some points but his game was being fast and physical. He was a number 1 pick therefore he could do it all. He didn't have weaknesses. But I can assure you we didn't draft him to be our go to offensive guy. If need be he can play on the power play(again because he has no weaknesses)

Lee on the other hand was drafted solely on being the player he was for the U.S in the world juniors(go to offensive defenceman). After this many years it's pretty obvious he wasn't going to be that guy. The thing was we weren't even asking him to be that guy at this point. All PM was asking was to provide slightly more offense. Basically if he could consistently deliver a solid first pass out of the zone I think he would have stuck around. But he just couldn't so we move on to a player who actually isn't scared to provide offense. Like Alcatraz said, Lee would have never even been in from of the net to miss that backhand shot. Never mind getting OT minutes. Or for that matter even getting dressed
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+1 #56 hello_gary 2012-03-15 10:54
Quoting Floridasensfan:
Seriously you guys are talking about Lee.

Give Gilroy a chance, he goofed on the open net, big deal, these things happen.
I like him way better than Lee, no way Lee would have been near the net to even get a chance at missing it.

Seriously I do not get the Lee love on here


@ Florida - Agree man, amen. Also, Alfredsson was danced around by Pomminville, sh1t happens, we move on.
Do you guys want to start talking about Ells again too, because apparently we're talking about Ottawa Senators "Spare parts"...
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-1 #57 Sensnation 2012-03-15 10:55
You know what guys, enjoy believing what you want. If you don't want to actually learn the facts nothing anyone says can help you.
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0 #58 The Apostle 2012-03-15 10:57
Quoting Tcharger:
See although I am not a fan of the trade, I do agree with The Apostle, it was abundantly clear that Lee was not in our long term(or even short term plans, so if we were able to essentially try someone else...why not.

I just don't see Gilroy as a step up, or an improvement, or as someone. Who is significantly better than any of our other d prospects or that will really fill a hole in our depth charts

Sorry for the crappy posting...my phone is driving me nuts today



I'm not sold on Gilroy being the guy either but at least he can be evaluated pretty carefully and with the system he will be expected to play in next year and the majority of the players he will be expected to share a dressing room with.

I think it's likely he signs a one year deal for next year and is used as a stop gap until the blueline prospects already in the system (and a possible draft capture) are ready to play a full time role.
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0 #59 Tcharger 2012-03-15 10:58
And I am ok with that ...afterall we are in a rebuild right?!?!? Lol
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+1 #60 Sens of Peskyville 2012-03-15 11:01
Quoting Daybreak Maidenhead:
Quoting Junk-a-lot:
Those fucken canadians .... no team , and they beat us again in OT . Oh what a nasty loss that was .

Apart form Gilroy not delivering , and getting played too much , Lehner is the one getting a treatement , he doesnt deserve . Kid won us 2 big games , and down we send him to the american league again . this is what is gonna kill him with us . Lehner is our man , way ahead of Bishop . Guys , masturbating on Bishop forget that he will ALWAYS get beat in that fashion .

Five Hole ....

Bring Lehner back , and watch him kick .



FREEBIRD !


IGNORE
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0 #61 miguel 2012-03-15 11:03
Quoting Boivo:
There is so much negative bullshit on here lately. I read everyday and its becoming much more difficult to enjoy. Why create drama on here, its getting ridiculous.


sorry you are upset Boivo, but this is only a friendly discussion amongst Sens fans on how to better our team...
we are all very positive about this years Sens, but nothing wrong with a healthy discussion on what can help better our beloved team...
again I think the discussion is very clean and full of excellent points...

and on that note, a few have made mention to the fact that Lee had many opportuinites to impress many different coaches and managers, and they all kept him as the extra d-man... so as much as I liked him, we have to trust that the professionals are in a much better position than we are to make those calls... all I am sayin is that I would have liked something different than Gilroy
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+2 #62 Andrews Theory 2012-03-15 11:03
If Gilroy scores or sets up one goal that wins one game in the playoffs, everyone shitting on him will change their tune in 2 seconds flat.

end of story. he's snake bitten, so is Turris doesn't mean they wont produce when we need them.
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-2 #63 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 11:05
I personally don't think we have a soft defence at all. We are a very hard team to play against. Like I said earlier BM and PM believe(and I happen to agree with) that you need skill on the back end to succeed in today's NHL. If you accompany that skill with a stay at home type guy you get a very solid pairing. We have 3 of those pairings.

1)Kuba and Karlsson.
- one is the best offensive Dman in the league while the other is a massive hard hitting defensive defenceman. I think Kuba is very poised and effective down low.
2)Cowen and Gonchar
- again one of the best offensive Dman playing with a massive guy who I don't think many guys can out muscle down low
3)Phillios and Gilroy
- Gilroy is definitely no Karlsson but is very much offensive minded and is paired up with one of the hardest working defencive Dmen in the league. People on here tend to enjoy chirping Phillios but I don't think they would call him soft if put in a corner with him
4)Carkner in a mean mother fucker and can definitely hold his own against bosons forwards.

I don't think you can call our defense soft
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+2 #64 The Apostle 2012-03-15 11:13
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
I personally don't think we have a soft defence at all. We are a very hard team to play against. Like I said earlier BM and PM believe(and I happen to agree with) that you need skill on the back end to succeed in today's NHL. If you accompany that skill with a stay at home type guy you get a very solid pairing. We have 3 of those pairings.

1)Kuba and Karlsson.
- one is the best offensive Dman in the league while the other is a massive hard hitting defensive defenceman. I think Kuba is very poised and effective down low.
2)Cowen and Gonchar
- again one of the best offensive Dman playing with a massive guy who I don't think many guys can out muscle down low
3)Phillios and Gilroy
- Gilroy is definitely no Karlsson but is very much offensive minded and is paired up with one of the hardest working defencive Dmen in the league. People on here tend to enjoy chirping Phillios but I don't think they would call him soft if put in a corner with him
4)Carkner in a mean mother fucker and can definitely hold his own against bosons forwards.

I don't think you can call our defense soft



I agree thatour defensive pairings are balanced, but I'm intrigued who this hard hitting defensive defencemen you think we have paired with Karlsson is - because whoever you are describing, it isn't Kuba.
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+2 #65 Tcharger 2012-03-15 11:27
Kuba is big...but hard hitting is probably the absolute last thing I would use to describe him...probably even behind grandmother.... .horse....and chocolate chip muffins
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0 #66 Timic 2012-03-15 11:28
Karlesson will pick up Lucic up and pin him, mid-air, into the boards. He is awesome.

Quoting miguel:
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
I love how the best thing someone can say about Lee is that he was good at retrieving the puck along the boards and getting it back out.

Do you hear what you're saying my man??

There isn't a single player in the NHL who isn't capable of doing that.


Really????
have you seen how many times Gonchar tries to hide on a dump, and let the forechecker go first to the puck????
There are two ends of the ice, our D is great on one side, and too weak on the other side.

Again, I love how Kuba has turned it around, and I love what Karlsson has done,
BUT if Boston dumps the puck in, and Lucic is coming in on the forecheck, who on Ottawa's D will win that puck....
you can count it on one finger... Cowen, then maybe Philips, but Gonch, Kuba, Karlsson, and now Gilroy, will not be able to find a place to hide...
And yes Lee would take that hit and battle to win that puck,
sorry I disagree, we did not need another SOFT D in our back end...again IMO only of course...
Also Philips in Junior was considered a very strong D-man who had offensive talents as well... anyone remember him at the World Juniors, he considered offensive.
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0 #67 boom 2012-03-15 11:29
@Zach....
"the other is a massive hard hitting defensive defenceman"
Have you ever seen Kuba play...even one game?
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-3 #68 ZachPraiseTheSwedes 2012-03-15 11:30
Fair enough...

Maybe Kuba isn't all that hard hitting. But you certainly can't call him soft. He's definitely a solid presence down low
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0 #69 The Apostle 2012-03-15 11:37
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Fair enough...

Maybe Kuba isn't all that hard hitting. But you certainly can't call him soft. He's definitely a solid presence down low


to be clear - i am not against Kuba at all and whilst i don't think there is room for both him and Gilroy next year, I wouldn't be upset if he signed a 1 year deal at the end of this season, it's just that him and hard hitting aren't often used in the same sentence unless it's accompanied by the words "an absence of..." or " i wish he was more of a..."
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+1 #70 boom 2012-03-15 11:37
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Fair enough...

Maybe Kuba isn't all that hard hitting. But you certainly can't call him soft. He's definitely a solid presence down low

I'll call him soft, and so is Gonchar.
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0 #71 Timic 2012-03-15 11:38
I do like our D a lot. Well-ballanced. Not soft. Not the hardest, but I really don't want six Carkners. I would have no problems with the pairings remaining as they are now for next year - maybe just replace Carkner with Boro. They do need to draft D though.

But why isn't anybody talking about Silfverberg? Holy shit! The only guy in history to do what he's done is Forseberg! Please Alfie, stay one more year and mentor this guy. And please Slifverberg - come over for the playoffs!

Back to D - I think one of Zibby, Stone, or Silfverberg will be traded for a top D prospect.
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+1 #72 Hax 2012-03-15 11:39
Quoting The Apostle:
I agree thatour defensive pairings are balanced, but I'm intrigued who this hard hitting defensive defencemen you think we have paired with Karlsson is - because whoever you are describing, it isn't Kuba.


Faded memories of the Karlsson-Sutton pairing??
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0 #73 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 11:42
Quoting Timic:
I do like our D a lot. Well-ballanced. Not soft. Not the hardest, but I really don't want six Carkners. I would have no problems with the pairings remaining as they are now for next year - maybe just replace Carkner with Boro. They do need to draft D though.

But why isn't anybody talking about Silfverberg? Holy shit! The only guy in history to do what he's done is Forseberg! Please Alfie, stay one more year and mentor this guy. And please Slifverberg - come over for the playoffs!

Back to D - I think one of Zibby, Stone, or Silfverberg will be traded for a top D prospect.


I agree with bringing over Silfverberg but your other opinion is highly debateable lol

So Murray trades Rundblad(our top d prospect next to cowen) for Turris to fill the void of 2LC

Now you want Murray to trade Zibby (2LC) Stone(top 6 forward) or Silfverberg (Swede MVP) for a top end D prospect?

Whats the point in all that? Our D is good for a few years with Karlsson and Cowen as our studs, plus boro/gryba and some vet presence in phillips and gonchar perhaps kuba. so we just need spot fillers, until more of our prospects (think Classen) start to pan out.

I like the idea of trading Stone (just cause I think his value is at an all time high) but beyond that no way to trading an existing prospect for a dman prospect
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0 #74 Hax 2012-03-15 11:45
I don't think you can look at the Turris trade that way. I think BM had a chance to grab Turris and felt Rundblad was worth the swap. If some GM offers a D prospect for Stone (or someone) and Murray thinks he "wins" that deal he'll do it.

I was disappointed to see Rundblad go but it seems after having him on the team for a while BM and the coaches didn't see enough there to want to keep him over getting Turris.
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0 #75 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 11:55
Quoting Hax:
I don't think you can look at the Turris trade that way. I think BM had a chance to grab Turris and felt Rundblad was worth the swap. If some GM offers a D prospect for Stone (or someone) and Murray thinks he "wins" that deal he'll do it.

I was disappointed to see Rundblad go but it seems after having him on the team for a while BM and the coaches didn't see enough there to want to keep him over getting Turris.


true

I guess I took it as we traded a prospect for an NHL ready prospect/player and now he is proposing we trade a top prospect just to fill that void left.

If we need to fill that void, just do it through drafting because we aren't in a huge hurry to need a top end Dman coming through the pipes...yet obviously. just stay the course.

Now if he can trade stone etc for a young NHL dman that fits the rebuild like a alzner(just an example not saying possible) then ya I would do that, but if its just to trade Stone/Zibby for a prospect of equal age and experience just so we have a "d" prospect then I say no
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0 #76 The Apostle 2012-03-15 11:56
Quoting Hax:
Quoting The Apostle:
I agree thatour defensive pairings are balanced, but I'm intrigued who this hard hitting defensive defencemen you think we have paired with Karlsson is - because whoever you are describing, it isn't Kuba.


Faded memories of the Karlsson-Sutton pairing??


Man, I miss Sutton - I get that he had mobility issues and I know we are better off without him, but that leopold hit!!

Even better was the time he steamed after carcillo because he was messing with young EriK - in my head Sutton had Carcillo against the glass and Carcillo's feet were windmilling around as he was lifted off the ice.
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0 #77 Hax 2012-03-15 12:04
Quoting Alcatraz:
Quoting Hax:
I don't think you can look at the Turris trade that way. I think BM had a chance to grab Turris and felt Rundblad was worth the swap. If some GM offers a D prospect for Stone (or someone) and Murray thinks he "wins" that deal he'll do it.

I was disappointed to see Rundblad go but it seems after having him on the team for a while BM and the coaches didn't see enough there to want to keep him over getting Turris.


true

I guess I took it as we traded a prospect for an NHL ready prospect/player and now he is proposing we trade a top prospect just to fill that void left.

If we need to fill that void, just do it through drafting because we aren't in a huge hurry to need a top end Dman coming through the pipes...yet obviously. just stay the course.

Now if he can trade stone etc for a young NHL dman that fits the rebuild like a alzner(just an example not saying possible) then ya I would do that, but if its just to trade Stone/Zibby for a prospect of equal age and experience just so we have a "d" prospect then I say no


Yeah I don't think we need to move any of our top prospects in one-for-one trades. But if we were able to package one of them with some other value and get a guy who could step into our top 4 for the next 5-10 years then, well, duh!

It really depends on where the org things guys like Gryba, Wiercioch and Borowiecki fit in down the line.
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+1 #78 SensChirp 2012-03-15 12:17
Daniel Alfredsson named the Ottawa Senators nominee for the Bill Masterton Trophy.
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-1 #79 Canucnik 2012-03-15 12:17
Miguel:

You do altogether too much trusting in the professioals, they are just guys like you and me.

Note: If you are the goalie and your team is tied after 5 minutes of overtime and you lose the shoot out, you have lost the game for your team. If you do it twice, you have lost two in a row.

Big Ben is very good but his time @ Finishing School is over rated he was the same guy coming out of College. Don't...do not relegate Robin Lehner to that bad squad in Bingo for 2,3 or 4 years (he's already served two) it might be the end of him...he's ready for Prime Time right now!
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+1 #80 Hax 2012-03-15 12:20
Quoting Canucnik:
Miguel:

You do altogether too much trusting in the professioals, they are just guys like you and me.


Canucnik - I thought you were some goalie expert with 70 years experience and so much smarter than the rest of us?

LOL

Keep up the ESL courses by the way!
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+2 #81 The Apostle 2012-03-15 12:20
Quoting Canucnik:

You do altogether too much trusting in the professioals, they are just guys like you and me.


There is generally a lot of competition for most moronic post of the day on here, but I can confidently predict nothing will top that effort from Canucnik for quite some time.
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+1 #82 boom 2012-03-15 12:24
Quoting Canucnik:
Miguel:

You do altogether too much trusting in the professioals, they are just guys like you and me.

Note: If you are the goalie and your team is tied after 5 minutes of overtime and you lose the shoot out, you have lost the game for your team. If you do it twice, you have lost two in a row.

Big Ben is very good but his time @ Finishing School is over rated he was the same guy coming out of College. Don't...do not relegate Robin Lehner to that bad squad in Bingo for 2,3 or 4 years (he's already served two) it might be the end of him...he's ready for Prime Time right now!

Givik your headik a shakik.
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+4 #83 Hax 2012-03-15 12:26
By Canucnik's logic I'm guessing he does his own plumbing, tunes his own car and performs his own out-patient surgery.

I'm also gong to guess that his toilet won't flush, his car doesn't run and he's slowly dying of sepsis.
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0 #84 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 12:29
I would take tookie eeyore guy or FREEBIRD guy any day of the week over that canucnik kid. His posts are always so fabricated upon his own belief that if he praised Lehner enough, that Robin might actually read these posts and let him suck him off for once.

"rockstar" "primetime" "the show" such garbage
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0 #85 Sens Saint .... the former #1 fan of Spezzafan19! 2012-03-15 12:31
Quoting Canucnik:
You do altogether too much trusting in the professioals, they are just guys like you and me.


Hahaha .... and the Ass Clown of Day is....
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0 #86 The Apostle 2012-03-15 12:34
I don't know why Alfie is our Captain, he's just a guy like you or me.
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+1 #87 Hax 2012-03-15 12:36
The funny thing is I kind of agree with Canucnik that Lehner is probably our #1 in a few years. But there's no conspiracy to hold him down and he's not going to spend much more time in Bingo either unless it's to play every game next year max.

And a 20 year old with a career total of 54 AHL games plus 19 AHL playoff games is hardly "buried" in the minors.

Bottom line, if Lehner really is better than Bishop overall (which I still think he is) then he'll be up with the big club soon enough.
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0 #88 The Apostle 2012-03-15 12:39
@Hax

I agree with him about Lehner being our number 1 guy too. Despite what Bishop has done so far, I'm still more comfortable and calmer with Lehner in net.

At most Lehner will be in Bingo for another year - and despite the Lehner love in, he does still have issues with consistency and motivation.

But what do I know, I'm just a guy like you or him.
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0 #89 Hax 2012-03-15 12:39
Quoting The Apostle:
I don't know why Alfie is our Captain, he's just a guy like you or me.


But the big question is: Is Robin Lehner just a guy like you or me???

LOL
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0 #90 The Apostle 2012-03-15 12:41
No Robin is a rock star like Nuge or Iggy
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0 #91 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 12:41
Quoting Hax:
Quoting The Apostle:
I don't know why Alfie is our Captain, he's just a guy like you or me.


But the big question is: Is Robin Lehner just a guy like you or me???

LOL


You know 4 coaches passed on lee but they are all just you or me who say lee should play and be on our team.

so in that sense 4/5 people didn't want lee, not overwhelming figures at all
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0 #92 Hax 2012-03-15 12:46
I'm still of the opinion that the Lee thing had to do with upcoming RFA negotiations. I think Lee's agent made it clear to BM that he was going to make negotiations difficult since Lee doesn't feel he's been given a fair shot - i.e. try to force a trade. So Murray dealt him at the deadline both to get something decent for him that could still turn out and to give Lee a shot to play every day.

It's true that if he was as good as I thought he was he would have found a spot in our top 6 by now - so I guess I don't know as much as the Sens coaching staff (shock).
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0 #93 miguel 2012-03-15 12:47
Quoting Alcatraz:
Quoting Hax:
Quoting The Apostle:
I don't know why Alfie is our Captain, he's just a guy like you or me.


But the big question is: Is Robin Lehner just a guy like you or me???

LOL


You know 4 coaches passed on lee but they are all just you or me who say lee should play and be on our team.

so in that sense 4/5 people didn't want lee, not overwhelming figures at all


Now hold on a second, (poor Canuickik is taking a beating today) yes we need to have faith in our selected management, and they have done some very great things,however, even they can be wrong once in a while.

Remember a guy named St Louis??? a few teams, including our professionals in Ottawa passed and cut him... bet they wish they had a mulligan on that one!
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0 #94 Canucnik 2012-03-15 12:48
Boys...I played hockey with a bunch of "em, hung around with 'em for a lot of years, taught another bunch to play golf...trust me they are just guys like you and me and when they get older brings no improvement. "Alfie" is the exception to the rule, he is a "Super Hero!" But I still got to sell him his driver because he is a man of the people!

Hax:

There is a lesson being given to Robin here...and it's old boy stuff...
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0 #95 Hax 2012-03-15 12:53
Quoting Canucnik:

Hax:

There is a lesson being given to Robin here...and it's old boy stuff...


LOL - so you work at Golf Town and that makes you a hockey expert. Good to know!

If the lesson to Robin is "earn it" then he needs that lesson. It's fine to be a cocky bastard especially as a goalie but it has to be tempered with hard work and professionalism . If he simply wants to be a rock star tell him to ask Emery how that approach worked for him.
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0 #96 The Apostle 2012-03-15 12:58
I'm pretty sure I saw Canucnik get his elbow up on that last post.

And yes, i AM an expert.
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0 #97 SNOOPY SENIOR 2012-03-15 12:58
Quoting Canucnik:
Boys...I played hockey with a bunch of "em, hung around with 'em for a lot of years, taught another bunch to play golf...trust me they are just guys like you and me and when they get older brings no improvement. "Alfie" is the exception to the rule, he is a "Super Hero!" But I still got to sell him his driver because he is a man of the people!

Hax:

There is a lesson being given to Robin here...and it's old boy stuff...


@ Canucnic,

Maybe instead of fixating yourself too much on Robin Lehner, you could focus your attention, on the many features of Erik Karlsson, and his amazing ongoing exploits
and achievements.

Now that would be a topic full of positive vibrations!!
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0 #98 spezzerman 2012-03-15 12:59
Quoting Canucnik:
Boys...I played hockey with a bunch of "em, hung around with 'em for a lot of years, taught another bunch to play golf...trust me they are just guys like you and me and when they get older brings no improvement. "Alfie" is the exception to the rule, he is a "Super Hero!" But I still got to sell him his driver because he is a man of the people!

Hax:

There is a lesson being given to Robin here...and it's old boy stuff...


FORE! goodness sake get over yourself. To quote the extremely happy Robin Lehner;

;)
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+1 #99 miguel 2012-03-15 13:02
On the Silfverbertg award... as many mentioned, we should be making more of this and the winning of it.
If I am correct he won the MVP of the SEL... is this correct?

If so, holy crap that is huge! He is still 20/21 and playing in a mens league, and wins overall best player of that league.
Now keep in mind that the SEL is a business, and I am certain if a veteran of the SEL, who will be there for a few more years was remotely close to him, they would rather vote for someone who will be around for a while, and can market him.
So he must be an obvious choice, and he is a Senator...whooohoooo!!!

Now can someone please educate me on if we can get him here for our cup run, and if so, what are the ramifications, and why have we not heard more about adding a top 6 forward to our lineup... lord knows we can certainly use him especially in games like last night
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0 #100 boom 2012-03-15 13:11
Quoting Canucnik:
Boys...I played hockey with a bunch of "em, hung around with 'em for a lot of years, taught another bunch to play golf...trust me they are just guys like you and me and when they get older brings no improvement. "Alfie" is the exception to the rule, he is a "Super Hero!" But I still got to sell him his driver because he is a man of the people!

Hax:

There is a lesson being given to Robin here...and it's old boy stuff...

Speaking of lessons, here's one for you. Look up "Narcissus", in Greek Mythology - see if it sounds like anyone you know...
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0 #101 Sensational Sens Fan 2012-03-15 13:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajz0paAZJ_Y
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0 #102 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 13:25
Hey Canucnik no one is denying that they are just like you or me, in the sense that they can carry a conversation, purchase an effing driver or even have a beer with anyone

What we are saying is that they are pros and are experts in their respective fields. If I go a golf pro and he tells me to stand this way, and my buddy tells me to stand another way, chances are I will listen to the pro

Similarly everyone who defends Lee on these boards are examples of "my friend" in the golf example.

Yes they make mistakes but when 4 coaches say no its no longer a one off, its a trend

As for Mart St. Louis 100% correct mistakes happen, but it was one training camp we said no to him for, he was small and thats how we was treated. It took him years of "good camps" before he could have a "great camp" and really impress beyond requirement to get a shot due to his size. But yes we would like a mulligan on that one, and in our defense only one coach passed on him not 4 :)
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+1 #103 Hax 2012-03-15 13:29
Garrioch reporting (I know, I know) that Anderson appears close to returning - perhaps as early as Saturday or early next week.
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0 #104 Canucnik 2012-03-15 13:30
Boom:

The Greeks played ball hockey (with a guys head) and running for distance!

No "Girlie man" talk here, this site is for big tough hockey manager type men..."Flower Power" I was a "Yo Hawk" not a "Hippie" in the late 60's.

Let's just keep it to hockey maybe you'll learn something!
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0 #105 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 13:31
Quoting Hax:
Garrioch reporting (I know, I know) that Anderson appears close to returning - perhaps as early as Saturday or early next week.


Oh no!!! what will Canucnik think about this! Now both Bishop and Lehner may have to battle each other in Bingo, with Auld being our backup in NHL (if Anderson needs rest call up Bishop/Lehner then)

What will happen

Rocktstar vs #1 Enemy round 1
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0 #106 Andrews Theory 2012-03-15 13:33
Quoting miguel:
On the Silfverbertg award... as many mentioned, we should be making more of this and the winning of it.
If I am correct he won the MVP of the SEL... is this correct?

If so, holy crap that is huge! He is still 20/21 and playing in a mens league, and wins overall best player of that league.
Now keep in mind that the SEL is a business, and I am certain if a veteran of the SEL, who will be there for a few more years was remotely close to him, they would rather vote for someone who will be around for a while, and can market him.
So he must be an obvious choice, and he is a Senator...whooohoooo!!!

Now can someone please educate me on if we can get him here for our cup run, and if so, what are the ramifications, and why have we not heard more about adding a top 6 forward to our lineup... lord knows we can certainly use him especially in games like last night



God, I hope so! I'm dying to see this kid play....

couple that with we don't have any decent left wingers and he's a shooter, he could potential make an immediate impact.
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+1 #107 Hax 2012-03-15 13:34
Quoting Canucnik:
Boom:

The Greeks played ball hockey (with a guys head) and running for distance!

No "Girlie man" talk here, this site is for big tough hockey manager type men..."Flower Power" I was a "Yo Hawk" not a "Hippie" in the late 60's.

Let's just keep it to hockey maybe you'll learn something!


How is someone calling you a narcassist considered "girlie man talk"? Or are you saying "girlies" are usually very astute in their observations?
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0 #108 Canucnik 2012-03-15 13:35
Alcatraz:

Take a look at your present NHL hockey rules...I think you could probably do a better job by yourself! I rest my case.
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0 #109 SNOOPY SENIOR 2012-03-15 13:36
Quoting Hax:
Garrioch reporting (I know, I know) that Anderson appears close to returning - perhaps as early as Saturday or early next week.



Will await comments from Coaching staff of the Senators
on when Anderson is ready to play. I thought it might be another 10 - 15 days before he is 100%.
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0 #110 Hax 2012-03-15 13:36
@Chirp - do we have a count of how many call-ups we've used since the deadline (or anyone I guess)?

Wondering if that's part of the reason why we haven't switched Lehner and Bishop. Bishop hasn't been any better (or really any worse) than Lehner so I would have thought they'd give each guy 3-4 games in a row then switch. Until Andy gets back that is.
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0 #111 miguel 2012-03-15 13:42
Quoting Alcatraz:
Hey Canucnik no one is denying that they are just like you or me, in the sense that they can carry a conversation, purchase an effing driver or even have a beer with anyone

What we are saying is that they are pros and are experts in their respective fields. If I go a golf pro and he tells me to stand this way, and my buddy tells me to stand another way, chances are I will listen to the pro

Similarly everyone who defends Lee on these boards are examples of "my friend" in the golf example.

Yes they make mistakes but when 4 coaches say no its no longer a one off, its a trend

As for Mart St. Louis 100% correct mistakes happen, but it was one training camp we said no to him for, he was small and thats how we was treated. It took him years of "good camps" before he could have a "great camp" and really impress beyond requirement to get a shot due to his size. But yes we would like a mulligan on that one, and in our defense only one coach passed on him not 4 :)


ah No Alcatraz, something like 3 or 4 teams (professionals) passed up on him not just one (Sens) so they are not perfect, as nothing is.

And as much as I have to agree with you and with our management on this one, does not mean that I can not have my doubts, and that I still think that Lee was worth more than Gilroy... but at the same time I hope I am wrong, and eat my words when Gilroy scores the OT winner in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final :)
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0 #112 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 13:42
Quoting Canucnik:
Alcatraz:

Take a look at your present NHL hockey rules...I think you could probably do a better job by yourself! I rest my case.


Your case being?
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0 #113 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 13:45
Quoting miguel:
ah No Alcatraz, something like 3 or 4 teams (professionals) passed up on him not just one (Sens) so they are not perfect, as nothing is.

And as much as I have to agree with you and with our management on this one, does not mean that I can not have my doubts, and that I still think that Lee was worth more than Gilroy... but at the same time I hope I am wrong, and eat my words when Gilroy scores the OT winner in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final :)


Oh no thats for sure, but I was referring from a sens only perspective. If we had St. Louis at 4 training camps to watch him and see him closer I would reason he would have made a bigger impact than coming in on a "tryout" at what 5'8" and not blowing people out of the water. I can fully see why teams would pass on him with those credentials. All he needed was a chance, but even today those are tough odds

St. Louis is an exeption to most rules (just like 29 organizations passing on zetterberg/dats yuk and alfie in the draft etc

But when you have a player come to camp for 4 years in a row and still not impress enough to stick with the starting roster, something has to budge
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-1 #114 miguel 2012-03-15 13:46
Quoting Alcatraz:
Quoting Canucnik:
Alcatraz:

Take a look at your present NHL hockey rules...I think you could probably do a better job by yourself! I rest my case.


Your case being?


have to agree???

Canuickik, sometimes I haven't a clue what you are saying but have to say I respect your tanacity... you take a licking but keep on ticking :)
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0 #115 Sens of Peskyville 2012-03-15 13:53
Quoting Canucnik:
Alcatraz:

Take a look at your present NHL hockey rules...I think you could probably do a better job by yourself! I rest my case.


Having a conversation with you is "like wrestling an excitable dog in a paddling pool full of disembodied breasts".

"Unfortunately, although the answer was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward , there is some difficulty in justifying assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated, and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear."
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0 #116 Hax 2012-03-15 13:54
Quoting Canucnik:
Alcatraz:

Take a look at your present NHL hockey rules...I think you could probably do a better job by yourself! I rest my case.


The higher, the fewer.
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0 #117 Hax 2012-03-15 13:58
Ottawa Senators ‏ @NHL_Sens

#Sens head coach Paul MacLean speaks to the media following today’s practice in Ottawa: http://ottsens.com/zJ6MPU (.mp3 audio)
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0 #118 Canucnik 2012-03-15 14:00
In the "Olden Days", when men were men, we cut the palms out of our hockey gloves. Had a guy skate across my open hand. Bad cut and cut tendon. Kept trying to come back too soon for a whole hockey season. This is way too early for "Andy" to come back...

Note: Full recovery will be next September.
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0 #119 Hax 2012-03-15 14:01
Quoting Canucnik:
In the "Olden Days", when men were men, we cut the palms out of our hockey gloves. Had a guy skate across my open hand. Bad cut and cut tendon. Kept trying to come back too soon for a whole hockey season. This is way too early for "Andy" to come back...

Note: Full recovery will be next September.


You're talking out your ass. Getting cut across the palm by a skate is a different situation than cutting one finger.

He took a full practice today BTW.
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0 #120 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 14:04
Ok time to press ignore on canucnik he clearly is just looking for attention

Onto next topic:

1 minute left in game 3 of a must win playoff game. two scenarios who is your 5/6 man unit on the ice if your up a goal(5 man) or down a goal(6 man)

down a goal:
spezza, michalek, alfie, greening, karlsson, kuba

up a goal:
spezza(faceoff), Smith(in case spezza waived), alfie, cowen, phillips

and say you??
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0 #121 SNOOPY SENIOR 2012-03-15 14:06
Quoting Canucnik:
In the "Olden Days", when men were men, we cut the palms out of our hockey gloves. Had a guy skate across my open hand. Bad cut and cut tendon. Kept trying to come back too soon for a whole hockey season. This is way too early for "Andy" to come back...

Note: Full recovery will be next September.



This guy Canucnik, is a serious challenge to the role that Tookie has inherited from SensChirp posters !!


At least Tookie in his negativity, and numerous stats
makes us enjoy his stances !!
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+1 #122 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 14:11
Hey chirp question

can we make a rule that if a poster gets lets say 3 posts in a one week period of -10 or worse they are gone lol

This would put merit into the thumbs up/down already in place and it would show how disliked certain posters are

that being said -1 to canucnik
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0 #123 Hax 2012-03-15 14:27
Quoting Alcatraz:
Ok time to press ignore on canucnik he clearly is just looking for attention

Onto next topic:

1 minute left in game 3 of a must win playoff game. two scenarios who is your 5/6 man unit on the ice if your up a goal(5 man) or down a goal(6 man)

down a goal:
spezza, michalek, alfie, greening, karlsson, kuba

up a goal:
spezza(faceoff), Smith(in case spezza waived), alfie, cowen, phillips

and say you??


Your choices are good and we have options but assuming every player is equally rested and there's nobody with a particularly "hot hand":

down a goal:
would put Turris in before Greening and Gonchar over Kuba (but not by much).

up a goal:
Depending on who is taking the faceoff for the other team I might want Konopka out there over Smith (assuming he's playing) but either way I have that guy change after the draw for MM9 to come on. I also wouldn't hesitate to put Karlsson out there since he's so quick and really can hold his own in his own end when that's what he's focusing on.
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0 #124 Alcatraz 2012-03-15 14:31
@hax

i agree about karlsson for sure, he would be able to neutralize players with his stick worth etc, and if he gets the puck you know it will be out quickly


I had greenign out there over turris purely on the thought process that when down a goal often the tyeing goal is downright ugly and in the crease, and greening is tough to move so he could park himself there. I thought foligno as well, but I would want to take a goalie int penalty
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0 #125 Hax 2012-03-15 14:34
Quoting Alcatraz:
@hax

i agree about karlsson for sure, he would be able to neutralize players with his stick worth etc, and if he gets the puck you know it will be out quickly


I had greenign out there over turris purely on the thought process that when down a goal often the tyeing goal is downright ugly and in the crease, and greening is tough to move so he could park himself there. I thought foligno as well, but I would want to take a goalie int penalty


Yeah any of those guys might work (Neil too) depending on how the game has gone and who the goalie is etc. If it's 5-4 you might want different guys than if it's 1-0.

Another thing to consider if we're protecting a lead is if the other net is open. Extra attacker for the other team means (usually) you'd want more speed out there like a PK situation almost and then you want to factor in the idea that an empty net goal seals it and EK has to be one of the best choices to try and score from his own end on an empty net.
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0 #126 Sens of Peskyville 2012-03-15 14:35
Quoting Hax:
Quoting Alcatraz:
Ok time to press ignore on canucnik he clearly is just looking for attention

Onto next topic:

1 minute left in game 3 of a must win playoff game. two scenarios who is your 5/6 man unit on the ice if your up a goal(5 man) or down a goal(6 man)

down a goal:
spezza, michalek, alfie, greening, karlsson, kuba

up a goal:
spezza(faceoff), Smith(in case spezza waived), alfie, cowen, phillips

and say you??


Your choices are good and we have options but assuming every player is equally rested and there's nobody with a particularly "hot hand":

down a goal:
would put Turris in before Greening and Gonchar over Kuba (but not by much).

up a goal:
Depending on who is taking the faceoff for the other team I might want Konopka out there over Smith (assuming he's playing) but either way I have that guy change after the draw for MM9 to come on. I also wouldn't hesitate to put Karlsson out there since he's so quick and really can hold his own in his own end when that's what he's focusing on.


I'm confused... is this an actual discussion about a relevant hockey topic? Where is the incoherent blathering, negative comments, name calling and hand slicing?

That said... I'd even consider Klinker over Greening for the net presence. He hasn't found the net much (yet) but he always seems to be right there on every shift.
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0 #127 Hax 2012-03-15 17:11
Quoting TheRightHandOfCarkner:
I'm confused... is this an actual discussion about a relevant hockey topic? Where is the incoherent blathering, negative comments, name calling and hand slicing?

That said... I'd even consider Klinker over Greening for the net presence. He hasn't found the net much (yet) but he always seems to be right there on every shift.


RKH (yeah I know that the H is not an initial) would be a decent choice too. Seems really fast and definitely fills that grinder role but with some skill.
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0 #128 Christinedqg 2013-01-31 23:07
MCM 店舗

シャネル 長財布

シャネル
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0 #129 Christinedqg 2013-01-31 23:07
MCM 店舗

シャネル 長財布

シャネル
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0 #130 plalchersbu 2013-01-31 23:09
burberry

バーバリー ダウン

コーチ 新作
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0 #131 plalchersbu 2013-01-31 23:09
burberry

バーバリー ダウン

コーチ 新作
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