The Sens held a players only meeting after last night’s loss and clearly recognize the desperation of the situation they are in.
With just 26 games left in their season, the Sens have to start picking up points or they will watch a strong start go to waste this year. There is still time to get this ship turned around but it has to start now with two tough Western opponents visiting SBP to close out the week.
At practice today, Bobby Butler found himself back in the mix with the Sens top six forwards. He has spent a couple games in the press box but looks like he’ll have a chance to return to the line up tomorrow night. Based on what we saw at practice this morning, it looks like all of the lines will be juggled tomorrow night.
Michalek-Spezza-Butler
Greening-Turris-Alfredsson
Daugavins-Smith-Condra
Foligno-Konopka-Neil
MacLean did not name his starting goalie.
- If the Senators decide to put out a “For Sale” sign before the deadline you can be sure they will get some calls. In a market where a number of teams will be looking for defensive help, both Sergei Gonchar and Filip Kuba could draw interest.
- I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, and although it takes some of the fun out of the trade deadline, I do not expect the Sens to take any salary back in a deal.
- The Ottawa Senators made announcements today regarding next year's season ticket package under the slogan "Powering Forward". The good news is ticket prices will drop on 40% of seats at SBP. Season seats are up 13% to 11,300. The team is hoping to hit 13,000. Interesting to note that Daniel Alfredsson is featured in the advertising around next season's ticket packages. For more information, go here.
I'd be happy to take back someone with a comparable salary (but still less than Gonchar's) if they only had one year left and could be moved at next year's deadline.
I'll be very surprised if Alfie retires after this season. Barring some sort of health issue of course. He's the type of guy that would feel he should be honoring his contract and he's still playing a level that he can be proud of (last few games notwithstanding ).
Maybe MTL takes on Gonchar? they must be really frustrated with Markov and they dumped Spacek, and Kaberle is not really endearing himself. But they would probably want to send salary back or maybe not? Gill for Gonchar? I think it helps the sens and gives Mtl somewhat hope of getting back to PP supremacy? Gonchar also doesnt have to move much via the deal.....dunno maybe im just dreaming lol
I think Kuba should be kept, they should sign him 1 yr deal, might overpay a little but they can afford just a little i think.
what about Chris Phillips? I think the sens should sell it to Philly and Phillips together. its worth a try.
Instead of staying even keel and calm, PM's getting frustrated in the media, and repeating the same lines we've heard for 2.5 weeks now.
Worse, he switches up the lines every game, thus preventing players from building chemistry with each other.
Just as PM had a lot to do with why the Sens went on the run they did, I think he's got a lot to do with why this streek is continuing. I hope he figures it out quick, or we could be looking at a short teneur for him here in Ottawa. I really hope that doesn't happen, as I think he's got potential to be one of the greatest coaches we've ever seen. But he's got some learning to do.
there is a funny risk with that: lehner completely going lights out down the stretch and helping the sens significantly and with major impact. that would give you a goalie controversy, which would be the rebirth of an ottawa senators plague a bit too soon. but....it seems like the norm these days, some teams manage it well : BOS, VAN and then some don't (PHI,TOR,MTL,BUFF..OTT)
Quoting Sensnation:
probably for destroying the second PP yesterday with his stupid penalty
With Lansdowne getting an overhaul the 67s might have to play elsewhere I guess. And they're ticketed by Capital Tickets (aka the Sens) so it would make sense.
As for keeping Kuba - puh-lease. Unless the best offer we get at the deadline is a 7th rounder he has to go. And even then, why resign a guy that is not in any way part of the rebuild. I'd rather have an extra rookie D in that spot who at least has a shot at developing into something.
he was juggling lines while the sens were winning too. butler would move up and down, greening would also move up and down. don't blame utter sleepiness on part of the players on PM. and I dont know if ottawa was ready to play from the get go yesterday, I mean the coach can't be blowing smoke when he openly says that the team has not come out of the break with the same intensity as other teams. stupid defensive miscues that cost goals and the goalie going cold can't be blamed on the coach.
the sens players are their own worst enemies. they dick around during a game and it costs them goals. thats called parity in the league btw, you make one mistake and it doesnt matter who it is, they will bury you. the senators were doing it to other teams during their win streak, now other teams are doing it to the sens. don't dump on the coach.
Teams know the Sens D is not the best in the league. Pressuring the D will result in turnovers and good scoring opportunities.
I'm not in a panic mode at all... I will be if they lose to Edm, Flo, Tampa and Isles...
Chirp, if they do sell and don't take back salary.. don't they fall below the cap floor?
If they want a young goalie as backup... Ben Bishop..
Kuba is playing better this year than Kaberle was last season.. and look what Toronto got for that trade -- a lot! If there are not too many sellers at the deadline -- Sens could get a good package for him... agree?
i was just suggesting it based on his better-than-las t-season play. if wiercioch doesn't turn out next camp, sens will be one decent PMD short. and thay might be one too many. as it stands, gonchar is basically pooping while gobbling up 5.5 mil. cowen has offensive upside, but can't rely on that side of his game. that leaves gryba and borocop coming up - and we don't know much in the way of offense from them. Lee might be the wild card with his better skating. so in short, we will stay a slow D outside of Karlsson. i just feel that BM may still have a lot of work to do with the defense, because at the start of this season, defense for the sens was not a concern until the rundblad trade.
agree, but i think he maybe just as valuable to the sens in the very short protracted future (1 season).
Karlsson, Gonchar and Lee as your PMDs (of various skill level)
Phillips and Cowen as your stay-at-home guys.
Then you have one slot for Gryba, Wiercioch and Boroweicki to fight over. And should one of them push Lee to a stay-at-home role or to the 7th slot that's fine and dandy.
No need/room for Kuba IMO.
He has been better than last year and I've never been a Kuba hater even last year - but he's not part of the future so may as well get a pick for him now.
But think of this Sens fans.
If I were to tell you last September that on Feb 8th 2012 the Ottawa Senators would be 8th place, everyone that comes to this site and everyone that calls themself a SENS fan would take that AND be happy about it.
Not to say we should be "happy" about this streak whatsoever, but we cannot panic and HAVE to support our team. Their is a lot of hockey left to be played, lots of ups and downs.
This streak ends tomorrow.
Period.
Go Sens Go!
Maybe because he has 2 goals in his last 22 games?
yea, i mean its not a big deal. but I feel it would be better if they let go of Gonchar, hold on to Kuba for one more...trade him next deadline. I think Karlsson plays much better with Kuba next to him, they have Chemistry. and their is risk of Karlsson's play falling off too because of that. I think it gives the sens defense a better transition than dumping Kuba right now. Lets face it, Gonchar and Phillips are not really playing like vets and are proving unreliable.
Milo for Jack Johnson
Philly Kuba Gonchar whatever for a pick or young player
Folingo butler Condra Kono lee Carkner as add is or for picks
Of course nobody wants to finish 9th, but even if we do it won't devestate the rebuild. We're not in desperate need of a top 5 pick to add to our prospect pool. Any team would happily take a top 5 pick of course, but it's not like our system is devoid of solid first rounders.
The losses sting as a fan of course, but I'd rather lose every game the rest of the year than have a couple of our prospects turn out to be busts (i.e. if Karlsson broke a leg or Cowen showed that he'll never be an NHLer etc).
Also, I'm wondering why Foligno is down on the fourth line. Perhaps some undisciplined play is the reason. Still, I don't see why he hasn't got the chance that Condra, Butler and Greening received on the top line.
Foligno is just as good or better than any of those players and his skating is great this year. He could really help create some room for Michalek and Spezza.
Some might say that Robin's stats are not that good. Who cares, we've seen many newcomers (Jim Carrey anyone?) when called up went on a crazy winning streak. Time for this team to get some new energy just like when we traded for Kyle Turris.
C'mon BM, let's do this.
Seems to me if you're going to have someone on your first line that doesn't belong there, it should be Foligno over Greening/Condra /Butler/O'Brien etc.
Hopefully he gets out of the doghouse soon.
I have to disagree on Konopka - he's the one guy that shows passion on every shift. If everyone else played like he and Neil do we'd have some wins recently.
I disagree with the daug comment, i think he's playing fairly well given his icetime. He's making space for himself whenever he has the puck.
the 3rd and 4th line isn't skating like they used to. until they start busting their asses off. mclean should manage his lines and roll with the players who are skating. They looked really flat footed last night at sbp.
It is. They mentioned in in-house a couple of times at last night's game. Sens will "do it up classy" as they did with acknowleding Elliott last night. Hopefully the fans give Fish a warm welcome but the Sens send him home with a loss.
Zenon was one of the very few players hustling like shit last night, created lots of opportunities actually.
I'm not worried about Murray giving up assets for a rental, but I AM worried we won't maximize our value for Kuba and Gonchar. They used to have negative value and have regained at least some.
I'd hate to see us keep them because we're in contention for a playoff spot (whether we make it or not).
It'll be hard to let Kuba go if we're even close come deadline day, provided we're not getting a really healthy return. I'd take a gamble on him to try and make that last push, being that he's a UFA July 1st. I'd be more apt to let Gonch's contract go and push with what we have left.
With all that said, I'm not panicking... just need to string another few wins together and we're right back in the picture.
Yeah - I know it's Eklund but ANY truth to this ?
well considering he wrote that in the am, not the pm... i have to disagree
I'd be shocked if anyone traded for Gonchar. The only team that might risk it is the Rangers. They need a PP quarterback and have the cap space to do it. It would strictly be a salary dump for us as they have few roster players they are willing to move. Torterella would probably prefer to get Kuba from us due their familiarity in Tampa.
p.s. butler is horrible
Not hard to do when you stop getting meaningful playing time or linemates with limited skill and no chemistry. Again though, he's a playmaker so get off this obsession with his goal stats.
Let Auld start the next game... what have the Sens got to lose? Another game? Do you actually think they can score more than one goal on Rinne or even get in behind the defense that Nashville has with the way they have been playing? Nashville has the best goaltender and defense the Sens have faced during this losing streak.
Maybe it will make them play harder knowing Auld is not as good as Anderson and they need to limit chances.
If a contender comes calling for Konopka.. send him away. Same for Gonchar & Kuba.
BoroCop should be able to fill in 5th or 6th D... Lee should be back soon... that's enough to get the Sens through the rest of the season...
Karlsson would miss Kuba... but wasn't there a period when Karlsson was partnered with Cowen.. and they did a good job... Is Cowen being more negatively affected in his game by playing with Gonchar?
That hook must hurt stuck in your cheek like that.
Can't believe people fall for Eklund's BS. Though at least some people were smart enough to come here looking for actual facts.
Anderson is not the problem. If anything it's Auld not proving that he can give Andy a night off once in a while (though he looked okay last night).
Foligno-Spezza-Greening
Michalek-Turris-Alfie
Condra-Smith-Neil
Daugavins-Konopka-Butler
Maybe the hard play of Foligno could wake up Spezz and Greening
The chemistry between turris and alfie would help michalek
Then we would have a great dfensive checking 3rd line
Trade him for anything, and let the kids come up and see what they got
Well said
Completely agree with ZK he plays within his means and does a good job on the 4th line.
What do people think Kuba and Gonchar could bring?
im ok with it. but im also ok with Kuba staying short term until next deadline.
And as far as the goalie issue is concerned
Release the LEHNER already he is ready probably been ready for 2 years now
Foligno is a "Watch me,coach" kind of player. He carries the puck too much, doesn't see his linemates and most often is a"Board" player-cycling forever. the coach is sending a message alright: "Be a team player"
Not sure if I agree with that or not (the "watch me" part) but I'm totally fine with him getting put on the 4th line as a message to do more. He's good but we really need him to be better. Murray's made some comments in the media as well (after the Crosby elbow) that sounded similar. Basically challenging Foligno to grab a top 6 role and make it impossible for us to play him in the bottom 6.
He's shown signs of being able to do that but not consistently enough yet.
If he gets to a level where he simply belongs in the top 6 (i.e. not just there because we don't have better options) then our team is much better. Can never have too many physical power forward types.
hate more than anything this year seeing him on that top line. i feel he holds back spezza's offence too much. its just a simple textbook case of sophmore slump.
hope as time passes and assuming we dont make huge changes to the forwards this deadline. maybe if bingo gets healthier we can call up petersson and or da costa again
Release the LEHNER
Keep that ball rolling turris91 make it website saying.
I've believed in this team all year, but the Senators will not make the playoffs this year. This home stand was crucial, and they blew it.
Parise-Spezza-Stone
Silfverburg-Carter-Alfie
Foligno-Turris-Zibby
Condra-Smith-Greening
How - we trade Michalek-Lehner -DaCosta+(3rd round pick) for Carter and Mason
Same time we cut the grass under Burke's feet. Give's Turris a couple more years to develop. + we don't touch Puempel-Noesen- Pageau-Prince.
Konopka-Neil-Wi nnie-Kuba-Gonch ar-Hoffman would be our tradable pieces at the deadline. Parise would sign based on our new strength down the middle. Even with Karlsson at 6 million we would come in nicely under the cap plenty of room.
Just a thought fun to play GM -GO SENS GO!
Guess ya better pack it in then Jason! Training camp for 2012/2013 starts in September. Start counting the days!
You want to trade Lehner for Mason? No thanks...
You would be willing to give away all our tough guys?? All you would be left with are a bunch of windup toys on speed getting mowed over and owned...
Plus, as much fun as it would be to have all the skill in the league, there is a fine balance required of skill, veteranism, leadership and team spirit... which is where character players like Neil come from... Phillips, Alfie... these players aren't picked... they're built... and must be kept.
If Gonchar stays until next season due to his contract and no move clause so be it.
If teams come calling and Gonchar is interested, bye
I don't hear anyone saying wow Kuba Gonchar Carkner are we ever lucky to have them on our team, wow can they ever skate fast and play phenomenal D and look at their upside for years to come, and gee of any players they should have made the all stars, other teams must be saying I wish they were on our team, lets trade a first for them.
Dream on
We are talking over 8 million in Salary for them, really you think they are worth that.
What I am hearing is wow they are not as pathetic and pitiful as last year maybe we should keep them.
Lets keep them because they are tolerable some times.
WTF over
If we need to do a trade now it is the back end we should be looking at, the forward ranks will fall into place next season Zibby Silverburg Petersson Stone.
Spezza Michalek Alfie Turris, if you dismiss the rest of the team presently do you not think two of the four listed above can play on the top lines
I have always wanted to make playoffs this year but not at the cost of our future.
If it is a move for our present and future like Turris, no problem.
Our backend needs to be cleaned up and added too, we always talk about our top lines but on D all we have is Cowan and Karlsson, the rest are third and fourth liners so to speak.
Really we could use at least one more D superstar.
Karlsson Cowan
Superstar Borowecki
Phillips Lee
Power play Karlsson Superstar, second line Cowan pick a name.
malone-spezza-stone
silfverberg-turris-alfy
michalek-zibanejad-foligno
greening-smith-neil
spares/call-ups/or trade bait: petersson-condr a-daugavins-pri nce-hoffman-da costa-o'brien
karlsson-cowen
gonchar-Lee
phillips-boroweicki
wiercioch
spares/call-ups: carkner-gryba-B lood-wideman
Greening-Smith-Neil
Sandy - sure would trade Lehner in the package for carter and Mason
I would acquire picks this year and use one for a goalie.
EEEEEEEEEYORE !
I would do it.
The oilers are looking for young guys, they might consider Gonchar and overlook his age but no way Gonchar would go to Edmonton.
D guys are all I can see Edmonton would want, they are stacked with forwards.
They will want guys we don't want to give up not guys we want to ship out.
Don't mean to troll or anything, just keeping it real man. This home stretch was crucial for the push. With the Panthers and Caps winning, also having games in hand, it's going to be very difficult for them to keep pace. They're going to have to pull a miracle out of their ass. A loss tonight could be the dagger. But if you look at it, the loss Saturday was the dagger. That was a must win game.
I vividly remember looking at the TV and seeing that the Sens had signed Gonchar for 3 years for 5.5 million. I immediatly though...."wow. ..what a deal for a veteran puck-mover". Than I realized my mistake. "Oh...thats 5.5 mill ...PER year. Ah."
Reality is, as much value as Gonchar may have to a contender this spring, its hard to imagine any takers when hes got that big cap hit for next year as well. For that reason, I accepted that were stuck with this guy.
Now...something I hadn't considered really (that Hax points out above) is that maybe he would be movable if we took back a contract ourselves. If not by trade-deadline, than perhaps in the off-season. Gonchar is not part of our future, so why delay it till the end of his contract (next season) if a opportunity to move him comes along.
I play there often and I cant believe an OHL team plays there, its beyond repairs, the ice and boards are in total dissaray, the roof leaks, its just total shit.
Hell yes, Michalek has run out of gas but L.A. dont know that :)
The Sens would do that in a heartbeat but would CBJ?
We will be set for years to come up front. And up until recently we were one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL, with a ton of offensive prospects knocking at the door.
Our D quite frankly has been terrible! Thank God for Anderson who is facing 30-40 HI QUALITY shots, to steal us a few games.
Don't kid yourself, we are not talking the 50 shots Reimer faced against us, if you look at the scoring chances, and the areas opposing forwards can get to, in front of Anderson, we are very fortunate to still be in a playoff spot.
Other than Carkner and Cowen, and even Lee, no other D-man is willing to take a hit to make a play. They play way too soft, and are too easily beaten by speed, and easy plays.
Frustration has peaked with Anderson, and we can tell by his body language.
before the season people were saying we need Kuba, Gonchar, Phillips for their leadership, and to show the young guys the way.
Well isn't it ironic that the kids like Karlsson, Cowen and even Lee, were the reason we were winning, and now that we need to rely on the leadership, the defensive leaders are nowhere to be seen!
Playoffs or not it is time to say good ridence to Kuba and Gonchar, I will stop there in honour of a good soldier who deserves his day on the celebration of his 1000th game.
Put them up and see what we can fetch... trust me we will do no worse wtih Kuba and Gonchar gone, and Boro, Gyrba and Lee in our lineup... IMO of course
Ah Tooks you play the Travellers League I see...
yes that ice surface has to be the worst in the city... thye must really work on it, before the OHL plays on there, otherwise it is no better than some of our outdoor rinks!
I agree Gonchar is not part of the rebuild but you also have to wonder if Gonchar lacks as much value as he does to us because Karlsson overshadows him and makes him look bad.
He might seem a lot better on another team that does not have a Karlsson, just saying Karlsson has raised the bar for offensive puck moving D expectations.
Karlsson makes almost everyone look turtle slow.
Boroweki Gryba can replace Kuba Carkner or lee next year.
Sorry here I have to disagree, I really struggle to find anything of value that Gonchar brings.
PP specialist... we have one of the worst PP even with Karlsson.
Defensive play, anyone who is paired with him looks awfully bad... Phillips struggled with him, Cowen struggles with him.
If we can get anything to get him our of our lineup it would be a win
Tookie, i think Columbus does it - They gave upa a first and Voracek for Carter - I think the SENS are offering up a bit more here.
Imagine -Spezza-Carter- Turris-Smith as your 4 down the middle. Not too shabby.
It looks like we are giving up a bit more but they are giving up a prized piece and their #1 goalie. We are not giving them a #1 goalie in return? They would be stuck in deep water without a #1.
Lehner is shitting the bed in the AHL and might not be the goalie everyone thought he would turn out to be.
And does Mason become our #1 or is it still Anderson? I dont think any of them would want to back up?
Agree. But unless Gonchar agress to something, hes not going anywhere cause of his NMC/NTC. Only loophole in that one is on Jan 1st (2013), he must provide a list of 10 teams that we are allowed to trade him too up until the trade deadline next season.
I think we really are stuck with this guy. If a real contender came knocking...mayb e he'd consider, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
This man ^ speaks the truth!
ah yes thats right I forgot about that NMC, but the way he has played for us... he really did not need that in his contract, b/c he has played himself into a no movement, by his lousy play :)
Yikes.
mason is overrated just like leclaire. CBJ just played an amazing shutdown D system thanks to hitchcock.. and we clearly see it reflect now on elliot`s stats
How do you define a "ton"?
Kuba - one pick or maybe two
Konopka - one pick and not a great one (if we even move him)
Carkner - worth less than Konopka
Winchester - injured
Or do we have a stash of UFAs I don't know about?
Here are three 3rd/4th line grinders for your possible franchise centre? What about 2 players who have done nothing in the NHL for your no 4 defenceman? No, Ok, but there was no reason to laugh down the phone at me...
It's like when there was all this talk of us getting rid of players like Winchester and expect a 2nd liner back.
The only time it's different is trade deadline day. If we get somebody to take Gonchar off our roster we will have to take salary back. At the moment we shouldn't take any salary or contract back on the forward line because that's where all our top drawer prospects not on the current roster are. We can take salary back on the dline because we have space boith from a body persepctive and a salary perspective - but if a team needs d badly enough to want Gonchar's extra year then they won't have D to give us.
I would love nothing more than to move Gonchar or Kuba at the deadline but you have to be realistic and you have to realise that our problems will only get another teams problem back (whether that is a bad contract or a "problem" player). That worked out for us with Turris/Rundblad , but it might not this time. We should't stall the rebuild just to get players out of the way now.
Patience, my padowan learners.
Well said. Though I do think we can move Kuba at the deadline without taking garbarge back. It will boil down to what sort of picks someone will offer. I don't think we should move him for a 7th rounder if we've still got a shot at the playoffs but if we're 99% out of the running then why not? I think we should get more than a 7th of course, just using that as an example. Remember Kaberle fetched a first, second and a prospect. Kuba's not at that value of course but I'm hoping he can fetch a second round pick at least.
Hey Fail...let me guess how your average date goes. You wear your best Don Juan outfit, pick the girl up at her place (shes smoking hot), and bring her to a nice restuarant. While waiting for your seat, you grab a drink with her at the bar and your throwing all your best lines and moves on her. She giggles and touches your arm, "oh your so sweet", she whispers. With your confidence peaked as you run through your head all the different ways your going to throw it to this hottie at the end of the date, you reach for your drink and as you do, you notice a tampon sticking out of her purse".
You slam your drink down and think "ah shit, game over, dates done, no sex for me." You stand up and tell her "Sorry sweetcakes, I gotta run. Its been great. Here's some bus fare."
All Im saying is...have a little faith dude.
All I can say is Sham WOW!!
CBJ is looking to unload and if they do, they are looking at prospects in return, 1st round picks and young roster players.
Whats wrong with Michalek, Condra, Z-Bad, Lehner, Da Costa, Stone, Puemple, Noesen, Pageau, Prince, all of those are garbage now? your too funny?
We could easily package a few of them and with Michalek and our 1st for either a superstar D or FW and still be in good shape for the rebuild.
He makes Philips less terrible
And for all the kids out there still dumping on Cowen, how many rookie D out there avg over 20 mins of ice time? There's no one back there to insulate him - so lay off.
PS where's Peluso? that guy was funny
I don't think The Apostle was talking about that sort of scenario. More the "trade Gonchar for a young winger" type posts.
Though I am against moving any of the guys on your list unless we *know* we're getting someone back that will fit in the rebuild. Michalek is 26 and I know you think he's peaked but I would disagree. The rest of the guys you mention haven't yet established that they can play in the NHL - though a good number of them will at some point. So if we could package a couple of "not established yet" for a single established guy then it could make sense.
I personally am always wary of trading away guys we are excited about but it's the only way to get quality players back.
Nobody's going to give us a top 4 D for our healthy scratches.
The last time Alex Auld faced the Predators as a member of the Sens, he posted a 2-0 shutout win in Ottawa on Feb. 16, 2009.
via twitter
Kuba has to go, playoffs or not, he will not win us a round, and will be gone after this year, so let the market dictate what he is worth (lets hope a second round) and be done with it
Gonchar will not be touched, he is this years version of Kuba, bad contract and worse play, his play will no doubt be better next year (contract year) and we can dump him at that point
I remember that game. It was in Nashville, not Ottawa.
Agreed I don't think moving out anybody for picks stalls the rebuild. What I don't want is for us to tinker round the edges and move Kuba or Gonchar out for the sake of it and leave us in the same position but with a different name. I'd rather we moved players out and actually moved us back a step or two in the short term.
I can still see a situation where Kuba gets resigned next year (especially if Gonchar can be moved) but if we get somebody offering a 2nd or 3rd for him we should absolutely do it.
Kuba seems to settle karlsson down in a way nobody else does.
Remember how Rundblad was Magic #7 and got all those points in the SEL? Reality set in in the NHL and he got traded and now he's in Phoenix's farm system. The NHL is TONS fast far more physical and vicious and an 82 grind,soul-crus hing grindfest. I expect Szilfverberg will need some serious NHL seasoning and probably tops out at a 15-25, 45-50 point guy at the NHL level.
Also, Team 1200 saying AULD is IN and KONOPKA/CARKNER OUT! PRAISE PAUL!
To be clear (again) I don't want us to tinker around the edges. We don't win anything with a trade scenario involving a couple of 3rd liners for another 3rd liner.
Quality gets you quality, trash gets you trash.
If there is a BIG trade out there and it means we give up our 1st, Michalek and a prospect or two for somebody of the calibre of Ryan Getzlaf or Rick Nash then I think we should do it - we have the forward prospects to cover it. I just don't think that trade is there for us to do at the moment.
The only younglings (2 star wars references today - god i need a life) that are untouchable are Karlsson and Cowen and that's because we don't have the dman prospect depth that we do with the forwards.
To LA
-Kuba
-Michalek
-DaCosta
-2nd rounder
To Ottawa
-Johnson
-Penner
-Bernier
Any Thoughts???
Anyone catch the bruins sabers game last night?
Sabers were up 1-0 early, but bruins tied it up shortly after
Unfortunately for the Bruins, Dan O'Halloran and the boys saw it differently.
The goal was disallowed for "incidental contact with the goalkeeper"
of course upon replay, like most of the game changing calls these days, the bruins player didn't touch the goalie, but was in fact pushed by a D man, and hit by the goalie. Even so it wasnt clear cut contact with the goalie.
http://youtu.be/7uQAUFi1flo
The sabers went on to with 6-0, but imagine if that goal counted early to tie it at 1-1 before the flood gates opened
I'm not the biggest Pierre Mcguire fan, but I agree when he said calls like that "changes the whole dynamic of hockey"
They even suggested the ref be fined, which would be a great way to keep these guys in line.
You can say it's a fast game until you are blue in the face, When it comes to a disallowed or allowed goal, you can't guess, which the ref clearly did in this case.
The only real way around this is to allow a "challenge" or two like in football. Losing your timeout if you are wrong, or maybe a minor penalty.
One quick replay followed by an official decision will solve all this nonsense
They are going to want more than that. They will want Lehner if they are giving up Bernier.
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
For the past two years we have been paying this guy 12 million for a minus a million. Have been hoping to unload him, but b/c of his remaining contract NO ONE would touch him so we were stuck with him.
Now that he is having a decent year with nothing left on his contract, therefore easier to move, and get something back, there is still talk of keeping him and god forbid RESIGNING HIM! Really?
Look I was against the Phillips handling, and granted he is a loyal soldier and deserved the resigning, but please people do not forget we paid this guy for nothing for the first 3 years of his contract, so lets cash in on what he is worth, and part ways. After his next signing he will be back to minus a million.
You can't fine a ref for blowing a call, but there should be some recourse for the team during the game. If it's a call that either impacts a goal/no goal decision then the booth in Toronto should be allowed to overrule. Not sure what the exact criteria would be but something along the lines of tied or one-goal games in the third period Toronto gets a chance to overrule any penalty call? Obviously only when it's clear that the wrong call was made or something.
But yeah something to prevent refs from being the negative focus of a game.
I know they kind of offset Penner as his contract is also up but I would rather we see what we have with players like Silfverburg, Petersson, Stone, Zbad (who all have a chance to at least contrubute to the Sens next year) than bring in any winger who isn't a slam dunk top 6 game changer.
Why are so many people down on Michalek? He's not the type of player we should be trading. He's not dead weight or old. He's skilled and young, plus he's a top 6 forward and we need all of those we can get.
LMAO, oh wait, you mean you....would... .umm yeah here's some bus fair sounds about right...
I have to admit I was one of those who was sitting here last year praising the new heroes of this year
Runblad
Butler
DaCosta
and then later Filatov, but it seems it takes a little more time for most to develope.
So to expect Silfverberg, Prince, Stone, to step in next year and produce in top 6 spots, is a little farfetched.
I hope I am wrong
Agreed...And to add to that a Bargain and cap friendly with a few more years left on the contract
I'm not convinced anybody is advocating signing him, but if you can't see how there is a logical turn of events that could lead to him being re-signed then you just aren't paying close enough attention.
We had this huge logjam on defence and he was the obvious part to be moved. That logjam has eased slightly because we have no Rundblad and whilst the other players in Bingo warrant consideration none of them have blown Murray, MacLean or KK away this year. There are NO dead certs to be on the Sens roster on the blueline in Bingo at the moment, Boroweicki is the closest.
If we can move Gonchar (doubtful) that frees up more space. I get the hate for Kuba but he is the most improved player for the team this year and as plenty of people are saying about Michalek "he is finally injury free and is playing his best hockey in Ottawa." Kuba has the 2nd highest TOI and leads the defence in plus/minus. He must be doing some things right. I also think that Karlsson seems to be at his most comfortable alongside him.
If we don't have the money (not cap space it's different) to make a big FA signing and the management don't think the Bingo blueline are ready for a full role then why wouldn't they look at what it would take to re-sign him for another year.
Let me be clear so you don't get over-excited with the thumbs down button, I would like to see Kuba moved for a pick at the deadline, but re-signing him can make sense and wouldn't overly harm the rebuild. We have seen some of the mistakes an experienced blueline make, to expect the bingo guys not to do the same next year if they are here is just wishful thinking.
I love the way you back up your arguments.... I do mean that :)
And yes I have to agree on the Kuba improvement... but you have to ask yourself where has he been for the past 3 years?
Is it just a coincedence that he is having his best year in the final year of his possibly last contract?
He is not a player I want my youth developing around, he is purely all about Kuba, and not about the team.
He is the best of a really bad D, and quite frankly when we need our leaders the most to be leaders, where is he?
He too has been awful during this losing streak, and I will not forget how terrible the real Kuba was for the last 3 years, and will no doubt get worse with age.
I beg get what we can for him at the deadline and lets see what Boro, Gyrba or Weircoch can bring for the rest of the year, and then if they fail, look at a UFA... IMO only of course.
Is it a fact that they can't be fined?
Mike Milbury suggested Shannahan Fine the Ref, so it must me somehow possible
You want to trade Shane Prince... not happening.
Heard on the Team 1200 this morning.. that Murray told the 'press' he will not be a buyer at the deadline. Price is too expensive and he is not giving up his future for that... Good for him...
Haha that's good one but like your story u have too notice when there's blood in water and 8 straight tonight
I thought Mason was crap...
Win or lose tonight, this info is reason enough to celebrate! Our history of buyers has been horrible.
Heard that this morning as well.... question is.. what team could take them and fit under the cap... but then again... any team would unload to sign that pair.
If it were only true...
Gonna enjoy watching the boys finally get a win here. Top to bottom effort, we're going to need it!
4-3 for the Sens.
GO SENS GO!!!
Lets not press the panic bottom but make a very small move...
Put Butler on waivers and bring up Andre Petersson and let him play the rest of the season...
A minor change is all that is needed...
What is missing is scoring and butler aint doing it... butler experience is over...
I think it's likely that Kuba's improved play has more to do with him not recovering from a broken leg, having a solid off season and training camp and having a better coach than just throwing out the lazy contract year argument.
I don't want both of Gonchar or Kuba both here next year and if Gonchar goes I think serious consideration will be given to re-signing Kuba should the contract make sense for the organisation.
I can see the attraction of going with the young guys too but if we do there should be no comments bitching about the amount of mistakes that they WILL make (and we all know how rational we all are on here).
Next year we have Karlsson, Cowen and Phillips as sure things. One (hopefully) of Gonchar and Kuba. One or both of Lee and Carkner. That makes 5 or 6. I think Carkner is generally happy being a 7th dman - and he's cheap. Then you have Gryba, Boroweicki and WireCock (who will all still be on 2 way deals - maybe not Gryba) taking turns showing us what they can do. Having 2 of the Bingo boys playing regularly is a gamble.
That situation changes if we can trade for a legitimate top 4 blueliner or sign one as a UFA. However, I think either of these are unlikely. If we can do that then there is probably no room for Carkner and maybe no room for Lee. What we absolutely should not do is bring in somebody who can't play in our top 4 night in, night out. Only one of Gonchar and Kuba are guaranteed that role because Phillips is here long term. If Gonchar is here post deadline then I agree Kuba should be and will be gone.
I guess they can't review goaltender inference on goals.. that has to change next year. It would not take long to determine if it is or not...
Apparently there was another incident in the Anaheim & Carolina game last night.. in overtime. Corey Perry tripped a Carolina player... no penalty then Perry scores the overtime winner. Definitely a mistake by the ref.. or so I heard on the radio this morning. The ref was.... Tim Peel. So I guess it's not just the Sens that they screw over... That non-call in overtime affected the result in the game.. that should not happen.
Silfverberg will play with the Sens.... Prince & Stone will be in Bingo... Silfverberg is older than those 2 and has played against men in the SEL. I know the same was said of Rundblad... but it is probably easier for a forward to fit into the NHL than a defenseman...
Great site SC and keep up the good work ... BTW - I quite enjoy reading the contributions made by the other two posters.
The Preds have better goaltending & defense than any of the teams the Sens have lost to.
I love my Sens.. I cheer loudly... going to the game tonight.. but honestly, I just don't see a win here... I hope I'm wrong....
I'm not sure if it's "legal" or not, but they really shouldn't fine a ref simply because he blew a call. They can fine him if he puts his hands on a player or fan or something but not for just making a mistake.
And what Milbury knows couldn't hold down a housefly - guy's an ass.
Completely agree.. good post...
Any chirpers in the west end feel like checking out the game at Local Heroes tonight (on Clyde)? Deal on Coronas (4$) and Bar Rail (3.50$) tonight too.
Just throwing it out there.
hope Neiler is on good terms with him at the moment!
Foligno - Spezza - Zibanejad
Silfverberg - Turris - Michalek
Greening/Condra - Da Costa - Butler
Greening/Regin - Smith - Neil
Cowen - Karlsson
Weircioch - Gonchar
Phillips - Lee
Anderson
Lehner
If we are on the outside looking in, trade Kuba and Gonchar at the deadline if possible!
while they can't fine a ref, they can sure as shit monitor the number of blatant errors they make and manage them out of the game.
Alfie not there next year?
Even if they were in the line-up, I don't see Konopka dropping with a heavyweight like McGrattan...Car kner maybe, if he was playing. As far as Neil and McGrattan being on "good terms"...I never saw anything to indicate they weren't. I know Gratz called out Neiler a couple years ago in an interview, but I think that was just a move to try to get himself into the lineup for that game, which never happened.
McGrattan (if hes playing) can skate around like an idiot all night looking for a dance partner all he wants, but I don't see that happening tonight.
Maybe a friendly Neil and Fisher fight for good ole times. (silly smiles on both faces for the whole tilt).
Side note... I hope Fisher gets a good reception tonight. His wife however might get booed by the "conspiracy theorists" though. lol
I have no issues with letting go of Kuba, Gonchar or Phillips but we can't depend on having so many inexperienced guys on the blue line without some experienced mixed in.. So we would need to replace at least one of them with another, cheaper, decent blue liner.
Gonchar and Philips won't go anywhere due to NTC/NMC. Kuba is a different story. Depending on how we play these next 9 games leading up to trade deadline (and how we place in standings) will make a big difference of weather or not Murray looks to ship Kuba out for a pick.
Phillips won't move at the deadline. He's got two more years and he's one of the "pillars" Murray wants to build around.
We won't have to worry about having too many rookies on D next year.
And Petersson likely finds himself in the top 6 next year (IMO). Alfie too don't forget.
Love your realistic outlook, but even more love the loyalty... Go Sandy Go!!!
We are well ahead of where we were at last year, and far better than most predicted this year.
Last year we did the right thing at this same time, and dumped large salaries, for picks and future, and we got to see some fresh faces make an impact, gain experience, and we are a much better team for it.
It was not easy to part with some guys (Fisher, Kelly) but no one can argue we are a much better team for it.
Why not continue on that same path of success, and get rid of some older inflated contracts, that will not be a part of the Stanley Cup winning team, for some youth, and future draft picks?
I like Sandy am not overly confident about our chances tonight, however as we have learned this year, when you least expect this team to win... that is when they win!
Go Sens Go!!!
The Sens can score on any defense and any goalie - there's not a lack of talent. The issues start on the back end and in getting out of their own zone with the proper structure.
I actually think a more challenging goalie helps them focus properly and not half-ass it.
Last time I checked, Carkner was/is the NHL heavyweight champ.
Yeah I doubt Carks is happy to be sitting out - he probably would like a shot at Gratz.
Konopka won't be happy to be out either - but only because he's too stupid to realize it's for his own good. I say "stupid" in the most flattering way as I like Konopka's bulldog attitude.
It would be awesome to land Suter, Nashville cant afford him with Weber and Rinne commanding big salaries and Ryan Ellis payday coming up in a few years.
Cowen Karlsson
Phillips Suter
Gonchar Lee
Carker
Yup but remove Carkner and let the Gryba/BoroCop/W iercioch gang fight for a spot.
By the deadline next year you'd have one of those guys in the lineup for Gonchar and have a guy lined up to replace Phillips when he's gone (or the option to finally give up on Lee).
O'Brien
Though I suppose O'Brien is at least possibly part of "the future" and Konopka isn't, so may as well give the ice time to the kid.
given konopka plays hard, but his skating is only better than carkner's on the team. I would watch out for some really good speed and bang from the fourth line today with Condra, Foligno and O'Brien. they should be better at creating some good chip plays too, especially in the neutral zone. condra is good at that. O'Brien has good speed and is not afraid of the physicality, same for foligno.
there is some good potential here guys, be positive lol.
now, more importantly, mr.butler. i think noone can deny its defintiely boiler pressure for him right now haha. but it is what it is and this is basically a gift to him by the coaching staff. albeit a desperate one. if he doesnt grab it this time, he better be prepared to waiver himself.
isn't that a case of super crazy deja-vu?? werent us fans complaining about this to coincide with Clouston's start in coaching here about two seasons back? was it not BM who went open and said his team needs a couple of PMDs? is that not the reason he got Gonchar?? was that not one of the strong points coming into the season? the rose coloured glasses we all had with Karlsson, Rundblad, Cowen, Wiercioch ready to go. I dont want to sound like I am dumping or piling on here, but those are the facts and it really just amazes me that this is one of the complaints during this streak - that the sens can't break out of the zone properly -AGAIN???!!.
I think the biggest shock as this team has gone on to surprise this season is that its still weak in the area which really kicked off the sens downfall in the first place-DEFENSE. I think Bryan Murray is lucky he is in an official rebuild. Any other status (i.e. contending) and this would be probably costing him the job.
more proof to my theory here is that more and more people are suggesting trades for Suter and Jack Johnson.
Are you still planning a Game Day post???
Working on it now! Long day away from the computer. Apologies for the delay!
I actually think a more challenging goalie helps them focus properly and not half-ass it.
isn't that a case of super crazy deja-vu?? werent us fans complaining about this to coincide with Clouston's start in coaching here about two seasons back? was it not BM who went open and said his team needs a couple of PMDs? is that not the reason he got Gonchar?? was that not one of the strong points coming into the season? the rose coloured glasses we all had with Karlsson, Rundblad, Cowen, Wiercioch ready to go. I dont want to sound like I am dumping or piling on here, but those are the facts and it really just amazes me that this is one of the complaints during this streak - that the sens can't break out of the zone properly -AGAIN???!!.
I think the biggest shock as this team has gone on to surprise this season is that its still weak in the area which really kicked off the sens downfall in the first place-DEFENSE. I think Bryan Murray is lucky he is in an official rebuild. Any other status (i.e. contending) and this would be probably costing him the job.
more proof to my theory here is that more and more people are suggesting trades for Suter and Jack Johnson.
Lucky to be in a rebuild?? He started it, and that is what we are in right now which is the reason why we are losing. Do you think if this team was not in a rebuild our defense would look like that?! LOL
Well hold on. The poor breakouts have as much to do with the forwards as the D. I'm not saying it's all on our D that we're not scoring, though we are deeper at forward ATM. You have a semi-valid point only in so far as that the depth at D in the organization isn't as good as our depth at forward. But it's not night and day. In fact, prior to the Turris trade both were close to even IMO.
So not sure about your Murray bashing here. With Gonchar for another year, Kuba about to go and Phillips for another two years it's hard to get all our young D to the NHL level.
Cowen's got to be considered ahead of schedule by any estimation. And there's at least three guys (Gryba, Wiercioch and Borowiecki) who could be NHLers next year (when we'll have ONE spot open).
As for the Suter trade proposals, again, we're closer to being "set" up front than we are on D. Petersson and Silvferberg are both likely to make the team next year (book it if you like). Zibanejad may as well though I don't know that we'd go with three pure rookies. And if you believe the Stone-heads he's ready to play Spezza's wing (though I think he's a year or two away still).
So yeah, get me Suter over yet another forward with promise.