Through the first fifteen games the team sports a 7-7-1 record and are sitting just outside the 8th and final playoff spot in the East. So how does one account for what has to be described as a surprising start for the Sens?
Speaking with a couple people close to the organization, they have indicated that Paul MacLean deserves a ton of credit for what he has done with this team in the early going. Every player in the lockeroom understands where they fit in and they know exactly what is expected of them. Communication from the coaching staff has a lot to do with that. From stars, to fourth line grinders, to call-ups like Nikita Filatov, players know where they fit in and know exactly what their role on the hockey team is.
MacLean can be intense when it’s required but I’ve been told that internally, players on the team have talked about how nice it is to have a coach that is positive. Obviously something that is important with such a young team. There was definitely an adjustment period under the new coach but it seems pretty clear that the addition of Paul MacLean has been a breath of fresh air for this organization.
With each head coaching hire, there always seem to be certain buzzwords used to describe the in-coming head coach. Accountability, hard-working, intensity and when MacLean was brought in, we heard a lot about his strength as a communicator. Granted it’s a relatively small sample size but so far, I have heard nothing but good things when it comes to his ability to communicate with the players in that locker room. The players respect him, plain and simple.
Obviously there are going to be challenges ahead, including a daunting six game road swing that starts later this week, but in the early going anyway, Paul MacLean has shown that he is up to the task.
- The Senators are on the ice for practice at 11:00 AM this morning ahead of their game against the New York Rangers tomorrow night. No Wojtek Wolski in that game as he recently underwent surgery and is expected to miss the next 4 weeks.
- With the Sens set to embark on a lengthy November road trip, the questions about a new scoreboard have again popped up around SBP. Spoke with a contact yesterday who told me it's a long shot for this month. Time is running out on the Sens if they hope to have something in place before the All Star game at the end of January.
- Some good news on the injury front yesterday as Daniel Alfredsson was back on the ice for the first time since suffering a concussion. Alfie has been symptom free for the past couple of days and will undergo further testing today to see how his recovery is going. Definitely a positive sign that he is back on his skates and symptom free so quickly.
Wed vs New York Rangers, or maybe Friday with first of many road games ??
Guess the tests he will do today, will dictate his return to active duty !
I believe he has been definitely ruled out for tomorrow.
Now that would be very fitting, and amazing fate timing !
Should be called "Alfredsson Day."
Actually it has been! The RSU was looking at organizaing a trip for Alfie Day that unfortunately fell through. SenShot and the Team 1200 do still have a great event planned for that day though.
You can get more info on that here.
http://www.team1200.com/contests/details.asp?id=3663&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=450&width=465
do to MacStashes claim that he's not used to the heavy sched
and may be tired doesn't wash with me ,ya he played 50 some games but he also played deep into their playoffs as well as some WJC games for a total of about 72 games,IMO each of the current defencemen could use a day off I find he brings more to the table at this point of the season than just about any other D Karlsson excluded...am I alone on this ?
I agree, Rundblad has been key to this offense and I hate seeing him out of the lineup for Lee, but I also think Lee should be playing. I think Kuba or Gonchar need to be sitting out those nights, while I haven't loathed Kuba's play this season near as much as Gonchar's, both Rundblad and Lee have played better.
Agreed. I have said it before - despite his points on the pp, Gonchar hurts this team more than he helps it, mostly due to his unwillingness to take a hit.
Would be nice to see one of the vets sit out and see how a young 'D' can hold up and play.
One things for sure, the young 'D' are more hungry and determined to come out and play!
The only way that would happen (IMO) is if PM presents it exactly that way. Say to one of the vets "let's give the young guys a game without you to see what they've learned".
The simple fact is that in the NHL vets play unless they're really in the dog house deep. For the long-term growth of the young players I think that's the right call as long as they keep rotating guys through like they did with Lee recently.
paraphrasing - highly skilled kid with top-six talent who hasn't shown the creativity with the puck he's capable of when play at the NHL level. He's been a star at the AHL level. Needs to build that confidence in the AHL and bring it with him the next time he gets called up to play an NHL game.
I DON'T AGREE with it, but i DO AGREE with Hax...that's usually how it works. NHL kids have to prove themselves over and over, while vets have to lose the job.
I believe in: you're hot you're in, you suck sit the bench, but I'm just an IT guy and not a pro coach...so I'll assume their logic works better.
My guess is:
1) Can't upset Gonch (don't want a bad chemistry in young locker room), as he's under contract for another year at 5M
2) Gotta play Kuba as we have to try and trade him at deadline or he's walking away for nothing at the end of the year.
3) The kids will have their turns as they trickle into the system.
Just my opinion
Chirp, I mentioned this before, but the sens have a huge road trip just prior to the All-Star game. I've heard that the chances are if there's going to be a new scoreboard this year that's when it will be installed.
Well said Johne,
I too have been loud with the bad play of Gonchar, Kuba, and Philips, but Kuba believe it or not seems the best out of the three for now.
Gonchar's offence can be replaced by Rundblan
Lee is playing better than Philips, so give them a few games rest to recharge!
what happened to the Maintenance days... lets just make them on game days for Gonchar, Kuba and Philips!
And what happens when Carkner comes back? Really they cannot keep going back to Lee all the feakin time, he deserves to play.
This upcoming roadtrip was when they had initially hoped to get it done. That has changed but like you mention, there are a couple windows of opportunity still available.
I've said it before - in the grand scheme of things the organization doesn't care much about this season. Every major decision will be based on what's better for the team 2-3 years from now. If giving Rundblad 70 games this year is the best bridge from the 50-or-so he's played in past years then that's what they'll do so he can play 82 next year and hopefuly 100 or so the following year.
And while he's been good, he's not ready to "replace Gonchar's offence". That's like the whole "Winchester replaces Kelly, Smith replaces Neil, Foligno replaces Fisher" BS from last year.
I agree 100% about the aspirations the organisation have for this year.
Also agree that people are far too quick to promote the younger players on this site and others. I remember somebody saying after 3 NHL games into his career that Smith can do everything that Kelly does.
Players who aren't in the line-up receive praise by exclusion.
I stated earlier that The Dawgs pk reminded me of Kellys
determination when he was here and that Rundblad in fact played OVER 82 games last year when WC and SEL playoffs are included If the aspirations of this club is to develop our young talent then Brian Lee should be playing on a nightly basis ,someone else said that Lee was playing better than Phillips ,,,total horseshit watch the games then comment
and as far as sitting out the vets being a nono I believe that the youngsters would benefit greatly by seeing them gracefully take a back seat from time to time ,The Sens aspirations at best are cloudy The fans change from night to night ,My hopes are the same as MacStash that the team improves a little each day and for now that is good enough for me.....GOSENSGO
As a fanbase we are always going to believe that version 2 of so and so player is already around and will be better. The fact is that very few 1st or 2nd or 3rd year players are better than their direct counterpart who is a 5, 6 or 7 year veteran. Obviously there are exceptions but I don't think they currently exist in the sens organisation from a readymade replacement perspective.
I think the sens aspirations are what will be will be. I don't think they are in a place where the success or otherwise of this year is defined by where the team finishes in the standings. Everything they did from the mid point of last season indicates rebuild though. The big test will be if they are in 8th or 9th place come deadline day and do they decide to hold steady, buy or sell?
I think this year is about identifying which players should be around once the rebuild is done.
one of those three should be sitting and the youngster should be playing...Espse cially if they are playing better!
And if it is only about the future, why have we not given at the very least a fair shot to Filatov, who was supposed to be in our top 6, but been relegated to Bingo?
I do believe that he is in the last year of a contract, and given the way he is treated, and that he has legitimately given the NHL a decent chance, may very well go to the KHL, and we lose a 3rd round pic.
My point being that Mngt is not only building a team for a few years down the road, they are trying to win games now, hoping that the vets get their games back.
Paying 12 or 13 million for players sitting in the press box just makes the organisation look stupid. Look at the laughs we get from the Rangers paying Redden 6.5 to play in Hartford or the Leafs Finger situation.
Filatov has clearly been told what he is doing wrong at the NHl level and what he needs to do to get back up with the big club. It's up to him to prove to the organisation that he is willing to do the work in the AHL and the reward will be a better shot at the NHL.
We have all year to try out players, we don't need to be throwing all of them in the line-up at the same time. I agree that from time to time one of the defensive vets need to have a maintenance game.
I agree that is what we should do and I think it is what Murray will do. The bigger question is what happens to players like Michalek, Neil, Foligno or Regin.
Do you think those players should be moved for prospects or picks. I know every player has a price, but who would you be happy to see moved. I'll admit that before the start of this season I would gladly have parted company with Michalek, but he has been outstanding so far this year.
Kuba has been improved this year but he's still the worst of the group. The reason he is in the lineup is his expiring contract. Murray is probably trying very hard to get someone to bite after his decent start. Moving that contract for any kind of return would be a massive win for the management team upstairs. They'd avoid a buy-out, not pay his whole salary, and low and behold actually get some kind of weak draft pick in return!
agreed Apo
well said
What we need is for a decent team to have a huge raft of long term injuries on their blueline.
I hope we trade him when his stock is at the highest or believe me, we will regret it. Just like Kuba, he should of been moved instead of resigned. I hated that resigning just as much that day as I do now.
If somebody comes in with a 1st rounder and a good forward prospect I think Murray takes it.
Neil would be the hardest to swallow...kinda like the Fisher trade...obvious ly not the most skilled guy but great at what he does. Followed closely by Michalek...who like you said until this season I didn't care about...assumin g he keeps the pace/chemistry/ health I am indifferent if we trade him. I think he is one of our top guys currently but has been playing better than I remember so a good chance for a sell high
When they were on the winning streak, I was part of the "yah lets keep going and hope we squeak into the playoffs"...to what end though, only to lose in the first round?
Then once we lose a couple, I don't care to see the old vets, whom I have grown to dislike and who are getting paid too much only to lose,and are a big reason for the losses.
If we are going to lose, I want to see the youngsters, who have shown to be better than the vets, are more exciting, and willing to pay a price to earn their spot.
This is my conundrum for this years Sens.
In the end I think that I would rather take my chances with the youngsters, and see where we land, with the "future" of our team. IMO of course
Lee signed his own ticket and he held to a one-way deal. If he wanted more icetime, he should've signed a two-deal deal and gotten his icetime in Binghampton - like most AHL-calibre players. If he were on a two-way deal, I doubt very much that he would be the first to get called up.
I guess what I'm saying is that Lee may be a swell guy and all... he may even be a decent defenseman... but personally, I'd rather see Maclean dress the six best defensemen we got. IMO, Lee ain't one of 'em.
Johne, I may be mistaken on this, but I do think that Michalek is still under the contract the he signed with SJ.
at around 4 Mil, he is still a good buy, and only a couple years left on the contact, so I do think he would yeild a very good return.
Unlike Kuba who we did resign, and agree with you that was a big mistake, and I will include Philips in that as well
Am I incorrect on the Michalek signing?
Michalics contract came with him and we HAD to sign Kuba our other D at the time was Luke Richardson ,Jason Smith Alex Picard A-Train Phillips and Lee was a rookie you and he was coming off a 40 point season ,we all have 20/20 hindsight ,,capgeek would probably benifit your comments
same here, i want Regin gone, Foligno meh, Michalek11 a good player but I think we could get a good return for him, Neil I think will stay and it would definitely hurt seeing him back at SBP in a different uniform.
sorry I just got it now, you don't want Michalek to become another Kuba,
got it!
ok then we disagree,
I agree with the bulk of your post, but wanted to clarify that a lack of a 2-way deal is not why he is sitting in an Ottawa press box instead of playing in Bingo.
Lee is no longer waiver exmpt. If he is sent to Bingo (whether he has a 1-way or 2-way deal) he has to clear waivers and the Sens know he'll get picked up and they'll loose an asset for nothing.
Cannot say the same about Kuba, Gonchar, or Philips.
Yes they have had a game here or there, but everytime Lee comes in he plays solid.
He is just as good a skater as Gonchar, plays the body better than Gonchar, or Kuba, and has better lateral movement than Philips...IMO.. . but as someons else stated, I do not get paid to make those calls, it is simply my observation.
I agree with the bulk of your post, but wanted to clarify that a lack of a 2-way deal is not why he is sitting in an Ottawa press box instead of playing in Bingo.
Lee is no longer waiver exmpt. If he is sent to Bingo (whether he has a 1-way or 2-way deal) he has to clear waivers and the Sens know he'll get picked up and they'll loose an asset for nothing.
Bang on!!!
None of the guys I mentioned will bring anything except late round picks back the other way but I don't see any of them as part of the rebuild process so we may as well make room for the youngsters. The difficult decisions will involve Michalek, Foligno and Neil. If we are offered a first for Michalek, or a 2nd rounder for Neil or Foligno, I think it would be in the long term best interest of the club to move them.
You are saying Lee is better than Gonchar.
Lee does not have a hope in hell of being better than Gonchar, Rundblad is a whole different story but Rundblad is not there yet.
Let him develop while Gonchar carries the load, why rush Rundblad, let him get there first.
We are going to know who our superstars are and are not by the end of this season.
Not sure PM's specific reasons but here are a few suggestions:
Playing with veterans can help development.
Sitting the press box once in a while can help development.
Winning the odd game here and there is good for business, development and the fans.
We'd like to trade Kuba and Gonchar - so playing them helps that ideal.
Young players need to "learn" that if you pay your dues to the team you get the same respect back. If they sat Phillips after all he's done for us over the years and after signing him to a new contract it's like saying "we don't give a crap about our players". I'm not saying he gets a free pass, but I think it's important to show players that the team respects them - that's pretty much why Neil is still here isn't it? He would take a bullet for this team and we reward him with a good contract.
Before the season started I would have said Lee is better than Kuba - but Kuba's been aight so far this year and actually shown signs of playing top-4. But even with Kuba, Lee is a different type of player. Lee seems to play his best when he focuses on playing like Phillips then shows better ability to play like a PMD when needed, rather than trying to play like a PMD and then "oh yeah, also play D".
there is also addition by subtraction to take into account. That's why it was important to remove Kovalev. I'm not suggesting that any of the players you mentioned are bad in the room or bad for morale but there will come a time in this rebuild when players like Carkner and Winchester are just stopping players who need to prove something from getting playing time.
as I've said before, I think Neil stays. You can only get rid of so many guys who were popular in the dressing room and well liked by the fans before it has a negative affect on morale. We cleared out guys who were liked last deadline. Foligno and Neil both seem well liked so getting rid of both of them might prove a step too far for Murray.
We got a 1st and a 3rd for Fisher when he was having a terrible season, imagine what we could get for Michalek who is younger than Fisher and has way more offensive upside.
I like Michalek and all but dealing him could really benefit this team in the long run.
Think about what Edmonton got for Penner, a 1st, 2nd and Teubert was it?
Point is, Michalek playing the way he is is worth a lot more than just a first rounder.
I think after what Vancouver went through last year in the finals against Boston, they'd be willing to give up a first or a very good prospect for Neil. Vancouver is just an example, I'm sure there are a few other teams that would do the same, especially if Neil continues to play the way he is.
I can see him letting Regin and/or Foligno go.. but there won't be a first round pick coming back for either of them.
As for the D... what happens when Carkner comes back? Rundblad was told he made the team, so it appears he will not be going to Bingo..... so are they going to rotate 8 defensemen? NO. Someone is going... the question is who?
Sandy I think they're going to be stuck with 8 d-men. Phillips will be a Senator for life, Karlsson, Cowen and Rundblad obviously aren't going anywhere. That leaves Kuba and Gonchar who are pretty much untradable, and Murray won't give either Carkner or Lee away for nothing.
At times YES Lee has been better than Gonchar.
obviously they are different players... one is more of a outside LW than a d-man who gets points, but he causes them too... while the other is a budding real d-man, who can one day take Philips spot.
One is at the end of his career, and one is just beginning.
Just as you say we owe it to the vets, I say we owe it to our youngsters who have paid their dues, he is now 23.
What more can Lee do?
Other than speculation, what have we heard about his retiring?
Has Alfie himself made statements to come to this conclusion?
Ok he had his first serious injury last year...came back this year to no ill effects from the back surgery, in fact plays and earns 2nd line minutes.
Why could he not be play like Selanne until past his 40's
Or why can't he be our Recchi in 3 or 4 years?
I cannot remember Alfie saying this may be his last year, so why do we keep bringing it up?
There is no reason to move him to retirement, unlike other players on our team.
Just curious
He actually did say this may be his last year. He said it all depends on how his health holds up by the end of the year and how the team performs. He also said that he wants to remain a Senator for life, but that those feelings could possibly change.
Lee Kuba I don't really have an argument there.
Kuba is playing ok but I do not see him as elite, Gonchar however has earned elite status and as long as he is playing well and trying hard I have zero complaints.
Gonchar Karlsson is and has been deadly on the PP
Gonchar not likely since he's got another year on his contract. Phillips isn't going anywhere. Carkner might get traded or we may just part ways in the summer.
We really only need to free up one spot this year, we can trade Gonchar at next year's deadline to make room for whoever is ready next (Wiercioch, Gryba etc).
As for forwards, Neil isn't going anywhere unless we get blown away by an offer and Neil is happy about it. You just don't trade character like that - I know it's a business but how many people want to work for a company where you feel like a "thing" and not a person?
Our plan has been to spend more time in the other teams zone (offence) so Karlsson Rundblad Gonchar, its all good.
Long term Karlsson Rundblad Cowan and we could use a few more Cowans, Short term it is what it is.
ok thanks, now I do recall this, but that was right after coming back from a serious back injury, and if anyone has been there it is very concerning, but seeing how he has come back, and arguably could play on anyone's second line,I cannot see him going into retirement. Like I said there is no reason he could not be like a Selanne, or even Recchi on our young and challenging team...
I would not Alfie to feel rushed into retirement though
just my thoughts
Any combination of:
Kuba
Gonchar
Philips (NTC?)
Carkner
Lee
Gyrba
Weircoch
Filatov
Winchester
just to name a few
He plays like he is all season and pots 35 to 40 goals and Filatov Butler Dacosta Silverburg Petersson play lights out near the end of the season, Michalek is expendable and a good time to let him go as others have said, when his value is at the top.
Filatov Butler Dacosta Silverburg Petersson Flop this year, we need Michalek next year.
A discussion for year end, too early to know.
Makes a lot of sense, but really would hate to lose Michalek, when he is on, he is a hi-lite
I would not move Michalek right now, he's the only guy after Spezza we are sure is a top 6 player right now. Others will be down the line, but having him around during his prime will be key to the success of the team.
Kuba Carkner Lee Konopka Auld Winchester Weircoch Foligno(because he is good and whoever we get would be an upgrade)
Miguel yes it would be great to keep him but his Salary and injury history would make it tempting if cheaper replacments are in the wings.
Clearly we are not there yet or even close.
Premature discussion just like the draft.
I say keep him.
Michalek is 26 for Pete's sake people. If he can play like this long term (admit it's a fairly big "if") we have no need to trade him. In 2 years he'll be 28 and should be as good or better than he is today. If that pushes good young guys into the third line that's actually a good thing for our team don't you think?
Quoting Floridasensfan:
Um, which GM exactly is going to trade "an upgrade" to us for Foligno?
I agree, Alfie came back very strong this season after his back surgery, he looked better than I expected. This concussion has me worried though. I really hope it's minor and that it doesn't linger on.
Like you I don't want to see Alfie rush into retirement, and it's obvious that he can still play at a very high level. The problem with the Recchi and Selanne comparisons is that those two players had/have incredible support.
Selanne plays with Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and as great as Alfie is, I think Selanne is a superior player and always has been.
Recchi played with the likes of Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Horton, Marchand, Ryder etc
The only offensive support Alfie has is Spezza and Michalek.
As Alfie went, so went the Sens. That's not the case for the other players mentioned. They were spokes of successful wheels, Alfie was/is the hub.
actually every November eleven is called um?? REMEMBRANCE DAY
Interestingly enough, not a single post about the actual blog. Maybe I can just start off each day by saying GO and let you guys run with it.
I think we all really like Maclean and most of the decisions and moves he's made thus far. Compared to Clouston it's definitely night and day. I'm even liking him more then our old boy Jacques, but he still has to get a lot more success before he surpasses him completely.
Ranking my preference of past coaches of the Sens, I currently would list them as:
Murray, Jacques, Mac, Bowness, Clouston
Actually just realized Clouston has coached the 3rd most games in Sens history ... crazy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottawa_Senators_head_coaches
I like him too (have his jersey). But I do think he's a guy that might get traded at some point (but likely closer to when we're in "finishing touches" mode). To me he needs to be a 2nd/3rd line winger to have an impact. Less ice time and he seems to falter a bit and I don't see him ever on the first line unless it's some sort of 1a/1b thing where he's just the mucker.
who knows time will tell, sure looks like something has to give when Carkner is back but I guess loading the press box is an option.
It's interesting that Detroit is struggling this season. MacLean's not there anymore.... just sayin' :)
And didn't Lindstrom want Maclean to stay? I think I heard that, but im not 100% sure.
#Sens GM Bryan Murray told us he's looking for another "NHL forward". Could just be prescouting, but Sens have 2 scouts @ #Habs #Oilers game
He reminds me of peter schaffer. Where is he again?
Until you let him loose in a top 6 role for at least 9 games, there is no way for him to prove that he can stay. Zib got his 9 games in a top 6 role. Filatov has only got 6 games of which the majority of that time was in a bottom 6 role.
Put him out there with some guys who play a similar style as him so that they can get him the puck and the whole line can play an offensive game. Two grinders and a Filatov = pointless.
I haven't really seen him as a liability at this point. He has never been out of position, and has never been on the ice for a goal against.
Why not try him on the second PP unit? Or give him some 4 on 4 action (where I assume he would destroy the competition). Or as a last case scenario, build his confidence by putting him out there on a shootout.
Bottom line, the team really hasn't given him a fair shake at this point. Its a shame. We will loose that 3rd rounder when he goes to the KHL.
Where does "Sparky" Allison fit in there?
[/sarcasm]
but now that you mention it I believe that Filatov is lacking
in the communique that MacStash has laid down It looks to me
as if Fila dances to his own music and by that I mean he is doing just enough backchecking to get another shift and waiting for his line mates to do the dirty work,
I sincerely hope he can find a way to develop his work ethic to match his skill set of which he has in abundance ,to me thats what separates the AHL from the NHL this is just my opinion but it,s what I see as his problem
we've seen lots of guys get by with just a good work ethic
but rarely on skill alone
Joe "Bonehead" Bowen and Greg "Missedit" Millen describe
a Leaf blowout ,,not to this boy there ain't
Gagner has become expendable in Edmonton this season with the Nuge coming in and making a big impact. Considering how weak we are at center I can imagine that the Sens scouts are at the game to take a look at him. Maybe some kind of Gagner for Lee and a pick trade could work for both teams.
Bluey parade plans in the Big Smoke are now being rescheduled for next season (again - for the 45th time).
It must be Fall ... the Leaf(ve)s have fallen and are being raked up and burned.
I know McLean has to say the right things when talking about Filatov, but really what are the plans for him.
Bad experience w/ CBJ had him talking KHL
He came in extremely highly touted as a top 6.
He gladly came in to Ottawa "promised" top 6 minutes.
Clearly he has not been given a chance in top 6.
With 2 of our top 6 out and Zibby gone to to SEL, make 3 top 6 out, he gets called up only to play on the 4th line. If he is not in the lineup up now, what are his chances when Alfie and Regin come back... I say none.
And if so, he is gone after this year, without a decent look, and we lose a 3rd round pic
It is obvious PM does not like him, but as a fan who had high hopes, I would like a better explanation, as like everyone else we see the tools.
Any thoughts?
Not a huge loss, and like I said back in the beginning when we got him (with alot of other folks too) he wasnt even worth the pick but atleast its just a 3rd rounder...
Failed experiment obvioulsy, the way they are utilizing him, if they have a plan, they are sure keeping it quiet!
Pageau keeps on firing!!!
Last time I checked he had 17 goals in 14 games!!! LOL!
I'm telling you this guy will be our version of Claude Giroux!
I was in the opposing camp - thought it was a great idea, primarly because he's still young, still lots of potenial, etc...
It's looking more and more like I am wrong, but I'm stubborn.
Look up "stubborn" in the dictionary, and you'll see it's pretty close to "stupid" - not a cooincidence...
and like everybody else we can see that he hasn't done anything to earn top line minutes otherwise he would have had them - he was highly touted because of unrealistic fans expectations, he had done nothing in Colombus to prove he warranted top 6 mins. Don't look at him as a 1st rounder, look at him as a 3rd.
at best he would have been promised that if you work hard you will be rewarded, just like everyone else. the players who have worked hard have been rewarded, Greenning is the prime example, Daugavins another.
Butler has done nothing this year and has been treated similarly, the main difference is Filatov has a 2 way contract and can be Bingoed. Don't think this decision doesn't involve money as well.
His chances of being in the line-up will improve as he continues to do what is asked of him. He has been told what he needs to improve on, now he has to go and do it.
yes in hindsight right, but unlike your view I was very optimistic after seeing him at the WJC, and the hype on his obvious top 6 spot here in Ottawa.
Well we as fans have not seen much, if anything, and that is purely b/c he has not been given that chance.
I trust PM, but do not comprehend why he was not given top 6 minutes while he was here. Its no like we were scoring during our 3 losses
I don't agree with calling it a failed experiment 15 games into the season.
It absolutely might turn out that way of course but he still has plenty of time to prove he wants to be here and contribute.
He proves that in practice and in the AHL. Like most prospects.
Disagree
Murray isn't just going to let his contract expire at the end of this season without seeing if he's capable of playing an offensive role for this hockey team.
Are we pulling the plug on on this experiment already? How many NHL games had Karlsson played by this time last year? 3? Some would argue that letting Karlsson play in Bingo for a while at the start of the season was the best thing he could of done.
I'm certainly not implying that he will be our top 6 forward, however, he is still far from a being an "obviously failed experiment...wh en they are only 15 games in).
ok as an urealistic fan, who saw him at the World Juniors, he has an abundance of talent.
We had a huge shortcoming in top 6, logic states that he will get a dance at top 6,
He has not, and I for one would like to see what he can do, and if not then tell us why.
Regin, DaCosta, Butler, Condra, Daugavins, Foligno, have all had their shot and no one has secured it.
In the games that I have seen him, there is no lack of effort. He back checks, he makes simple plays, take short shifts, and most of all has not complained.
I admit that I loved Butler last year, but at the very least he deserved a game at top 6 over him.
As I have stated, if he has not recieved his shot by now, then when Regin and Alfie are back, he is gone for good, and all I wanted was to see what he can do.
After all we are rebuilding are we not, he is young and full of promise, but we may never know.
good for you
the world is full of players who showed great talent at a younger age and were unable to translate that, for a variety of reasons, to the NHL.
Dacosta, Daugavins and Condra and possibly Butler have all played less games in the NHL than Filatov. They have secured nothing other than the contract and time to continue to impress.
The last two players impressed the sens management enough to give them both 1 way contracts (whether they deeserved them is another matter).
Filatov is playing this year in Ottawa to earn another contract, he doesn't have to do that solely in the top 6. there is this thing called practice and there is this whole other league he is playing in where the sens management can keep tabs on him.
When he has proven to them that he deserves a full shot, he will get one. .
Filatov, was headed to the KHL before the great opportunity in Ottawa, which now seems all but dead.
If he cannot get in with Alfie and Regin out in the top 6, what are his chances once they get back.
Another year in the A for him, means the K next year, and in this case, where he cannot crack top 6 on a weaker team, that may be the best thing.
Got to agree with Tooks here, Pageau will be our second line center of the future, not Zibby. He'll end up as our second line power forward or very good third line center.
What !? Stone no points ?? Time to trade for a first rounder !!?? Kidding.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself eh... we're only 15 games into the season!!! So many factors weigh into this man. He'll be given the opportunity when Maclean feels that he's earned it. We're just a bunch of fans, we don't know any better. I trust that Murray and Maclean know what's best for each individual player and what's best for the team.
We've heard nothing but good things about his attitude towards the demotions to the AHL and how he has been handled. He'll get his chance and if he doesn't, that means he didn't earn it.
Plain and simple.
Wrong my friend.. Pageau will be skating on Spezza's line along with Yakupov, while our second line center position will be filled by MacKinnon ;)
Interesting, I would be very willing to pull the trigger on this as I don't see Lee in our future plans. I think BM is high on Boroweicki and wants him to be our 4th after Karlsson, Cowen, Runblad. Sam Gagner is lesser Stephen Weiss but could become a Stephen Weiss which would be a solid second line center. I think it would be worth the gamble and it would benefit everyone involved.
I got goosebumps reading this post. Lol
agree
Can you imagine? We'd make the Detroit Red Wings dynasty look like a complete joke lol I know it's very far-fetched but one can only dream
I'd say this team is looking more like the Blackhawks in the future. The blueline is stacked and offense will be looking pretty damn good in the future as well. My biggest fear with that thought is what has happened after the hawks won the cup. They've struggled to keep the team winning, mostly due to cap issues, but the core there seems to have lost a lot of drive as well.
You dont know about practices and as for the AHL, ok, so he can score vs weaker competition.... big wow...
He's obvioulsy doing something wrong to not warrant ice time, my guess would be attitude & work ethic. He had a rep in CBJ for exactly that...
Agreed we trust BM, and PM
but in you opinion, when does he get that chance at top 6?
After Alfie is back?
Or in a month when Regin is back?
Again I say, if he did not get the chance with them out, and Butler and Dacosta did, how does he get back once the injured are back?
He will never be a 3 or 4th liner, and given that he did not get his shot this last callup, how does he get a top 6 shot at a later point, with all those others ahead of him?
I fear that we lose him without really seeing what he can do.
We are rebuilding, nothing to lose to throw him in for a game or two, thats all
In your wetest dreams my friend !!
You must have been one for those people last year saying *Relax we're just 15 games into the season, things will get better* LOL
Come on now, its obvious there is something wrong here.
Filatov/Costa/Alfie
or
Filatov/Foligno/Alfie line (I know #11 has said many times that he enjoys playing with foligno)
Greening/Spezza/Michalek
Filatov/Foligno/Alfie
Regin/Costa/Butler
Daug/Smith/Neil
I'm curious how those would play out...ah crap!!! I just did one of those annoying "line-up" type posts. I downvote myself out of shame :(
And just imagine, some fans here dont want that, they want what we have now....silly I know...The chance for the Sens to become perennial contenders again is in the next 2 years...
Yakupov and MacKinnon...
I'm not sure how to look at that Chicago situation Johne. I wouldn't say they've struggled to keep the team winning, consider last season was the only full season they've played since winning the cup and they made the playoffs an took Vancouver to 7 games.
Obviously a lot of their struggles last season were due to losing a handful of players due to cap restraints. The fact they still made the playoffs after losing players like Ladd, Big Buff, Versteeg among others is pretty impressive to me.
Plus, they won the Cup afterall, so who cares. They'll likely win their division this year and they have a good shot at winning it all.
9 pts in 14 games, and only a -4 +/-. He's factored in on some of our dramatic wins as well.
We are stacked on D with young players, and we ARE going to trade one D-prospect to get a top 6 forward.
Something that no one is talking about right now is the CBA. The NHLPA is gaining steam - that they are looking for a 50/50 split revenue (like the NBA), and we're currently at 57/43. Look for that to become hot-button within about 3 months...
Why do you throw a Habs fan in a blender feet-first? To see their facial expressions...
Peluso
i didn't say he has proved anything, i said he has to prove that he wants a legitimate run at practice and in the AHL
i think we can summise from practices that he has done nothing to prove to MacLean and Murray he deserves a run in the top 6 otherwise he would be there
Tookie give me a break bud. I already said I don't have any expectations for Filatov at all. I'm just telling people not to make a big deal over the fact he hasn't been given a chance in the top 6.
Also, I was one of those people last year who was saying to blow up the team last year after 5 games lol
Ok my bad, I misread your post...I agree with you then, no big deal if Filatov plays or not, IMO he's not that good and wont turn out to be anything special, to compare, I would say he's Samsonov 0.5.
My take on Filatov is that he has great skill, but I don't think he thinks the game very well. Plus I don't see him as a guy who's physically capable of playing in the NHL. The NHL is a mans game and Filatov doesn't appear to have the strength to play at this level.
Well I would have to disagree there, you think Karlsson is a man's man? I think his slender frame is even smaller than Filatov, yet he keeps his spot on the blueline year in and year out by working hard and getting better at other things.
I think Filatov doesnt work hard and doesnt want to learn new things to get better. I guess we'll just have to wait and see when something happens.
But to me, with all our injuries and young guys, he SHOULD be playing top 6 if he's that good, no excuses, he just aint.
Odds of a 3rd round pick playing 100 NHL games: 26% (He's played 50 so far and he is only 21 years old)
I'd say the odds are in our favor that Filatov will turn out to be better than any 3rd round player we could have selected.
this season was supposed to be about evaluation
the Sens can't just throw out 4 rookies in the top 6
and get a fair assessment on them all at once
right now Greening is getting his chance and DaCostas getting his as well as Butler ,when the time is right they will look hard at Filatov with some good line mates for now they are just giving him direction and homework to improve in Bingoland
if he continues to work hard he will get his chance,it wasn't that long ago that Spezza was treated exactly the same way by Jack Martin and I remember fans saying oh he's a bust or Martin is a fool but in hind sight it was the way to go for him its just foolish to judge his season on 5 games,we all knew it was going to take some time maybe even
2 full seasons to get a proper handle on everyone after all this is not Leaf land we do have patience
i believe at some point Tookie will mention Pageau and offer you a bet that Pageau becomes a better NHL player than Filatov.
Just because Karlsson has a small frame doesn't mean he isn't strong. Is Marty St Louis a "man's man", no, but he's a beast for his size.
Karlsson is a very strong skater and he's strong on his stick. He's a hard player to get off the puck regardless of his size.
Filatov seems like a light breeze could knock him off the puck lol That's the difference between the two.
Plus what Karlsson lacks in size he makes up for it in skill and hockey IQ.
lol, I'm sure.
you can't bet that every 6th rounder has the potential of becoming Alfedsson either.
Sure there are some diamonds in the rough and that's why the odds aren't 0%.
Make one thing crystal clear, if this team trades Michalek, Spezza is next. That's the plan for 4-5 years of pretty much guaranteed to finish in last place. There isn't all that much wrong with that plan - it's worked for some very good teams. However I think if we're honest Ottawa just isn't there yet. If the Sens can find 2-4 high quality top six forwards from what's in the system + last year + the next two years drafts they can return to contender status without blowing it up. It's just a matter of having enough prospects work out in that time span. Mika Zibanejad should fill one hole. Three left. When we get down to one hole, don't rule out a free agency player like Flelischman this past summer.
I mean it wasn't THAT long ago that we had Michalek before Michalek, his name was Havlat.
ok Alfieformayor, your assesment is based on what?
All the games you saw him play in Columbus?
or the 4 or 5 games you saw him here on the 4th line?
This is exactly my point, all I know of him is what I saw at the World Juniors, where he was outstanding, almost Bure like.
we agree infrequently but I think we are of the same mind about Filatov.
I think it was worth the 3rd pick gamble and he has a full year to prove he wants to stay. He doesn't have to be playing now to do that.
We can't throw all the rookies in at the same time at at the moment he deserves to be behind Greening, Da Costa and Daugavins.
If he works hard in Bingo and his attitude is right he will get his chance, regardless of whether Alfie and Regiun are fit. It's not like those are the players that will keep him off the roster.
At some point Butler will it, so will The Daug and Condra and there will of course be further injuries.
Patience grasshopper miguel.
X - Spezza - Michalek
Greening - Zibanejad - X
This is sort of what I hope will play out. It's just a matter of getting a few more guys for those holes. Whether it's college kids, prospects drafted, or a half decent free agent like Fleicshmann. The FA route clearly being the last one to take when Ottawa is "one player away" as they say.
Future top four of defense being: Rundblad, Karlsson, Cowen, and Lee. At least three of those guys are almost certain to be part of the answer. Things are coming along. Just need a few more very good drafts and some luck.
My assessment is based off of everything I've seen from him at the NHL level. That's just my take on him, it doesn't mean I'm right, it's just my opinion. He'll get his chance to prove me wrong.
You seriously need to relax about this Filatov thing man, it will all iron itself out so don't worry.
Agreed. Of all that forwards that were NHL unproven going into this year he has done the most to impress. I think he's the exact opposite of a player like Filatov.
Greening makes the most of a limited amount of natural talent through brains and hard work, Filatov appears to be squandering a huge about of natural ability.
For somebody who doesn't pay much attention to the draft until a couple of months before it happens.
I get that Yakupov is good, what do picks 2 through 5 shape up to look like at this point in time.
You and Sandy give Condra enough love for all.
Don't get me wrong, I like Condra but I don't see him projecting as a top 6 guy whereas Greening just has "something" that isn't easy to quantify.
LOL, i don't see him as top 6 either, but he is better than O'brien and Daug and came out of nowhere. He will be a solid 3rd line/utility player very similar to Kelly for years to come. He has to be a coach's dream.
Far more offensive upside than Kelly too imo.
I wont cuz its not even a fair challenge to Filatov, LOL...
dont get me started on o'brien, my dislike of him is completely encompassing and irrational
Yakupov, LW
Grigorenko, C
Forsberg, RW
Galchenyuk, C (injured)
Murray, D (Injured)
And there is the outside shot that he is one of those players that just takes longer than others to fully develop. Putting up 20+ goals even at the AHL level shows you have talent.
Is that a question for me?
I just feel that we need the absolute best forward pick possible for the 2012 draft...and Yakupov will likely still be there in June. And no, I haven't spent a ton of time looking at other potential picks. But, it looks like there aren't many other top 10 forwards for this draft: Grigorenko, Forsberg, Galchenyuk, etc. I'm sure those players will be great too but, if we can, try to get Yakupov.
please do not get me wrong, Fialtov may very well pan out to be a complete bust, but I do not feel we as fans on Ottawa can really make any judgemnet on him. We were sold on all this promise over the summer, and based on what I saw, I thought a good shot at top 6 and we can evaluate whether he is part of the rebuild or not.
PM and BM obviously wiser than I, have made their decision, but the reality is that he will not fit in top 6 this year, unless there are many many injuries, and then he most likely will be gone after another year in the A
I would looooooove to have OV in a sens jersey, but man has he ever fallen off over the past two years.
This really makes me worry about drafting the best available player, especially if it is a Russian. And I don't think anyone can question Ovechkin's effort level.
Just makes me think...
Even at his worst, he's by far better than 90% of the league!
Agreed, BUT it is still disappointing. I miss being electrified by Ovechkin highlights every night.
yes I hear you Apo,
it is just that I had really high hopes for him this past summer, again only on what I saw the WJC.
and as much as I am not a huge fan of the Russians, I really thought he would be different.
Like you said so far he has had the right attitude.
Are you OK ??
May Day, May Day , we need the Game Day Post, incl forward and defense lineup !!
Hope you got it ready !!
basically
- Yakupov is compared to pavel bure.
- Grigorenko compared to kovulchuk (and he even said thats his favourite player) with the passing ability of thornton.
- Forsberg is not compared to peter forsberg, but many say is compared a lot to alfredsson with much bigger size.
- Galchenyuk is compared to have the ceiling of malkin or marion hossa
- Murray is compared to high of lidstrom and low of bouwmeester
interesting to note a nother swede sebastian collberg (plays for frolunda), is apparently rising fast in ranks and many are saying he is the best swede in this draft, better than forsberg.
Johne,
don't get me going on the Russian thing, not at all stereotyping, but man the experience with them here in Ottawa has really left me sour!
Very happy to see Rundblad in, but equally sad to see Lee go out!
PM..."Happy about Lee performance, but Rundblad a better player"
yes but Lee is better than Kuba and Phillips??? IMO only
Wow the patience on this kid,
he is a much better man than I!
Kuba - Karlsson
Lee - Karlsson
The first option gives Karlsson a veteran person on the ice with him who can help his development more than Lee can.
I don't agree that Lee should be ahead of Phillips, but the same arguement would apply IMO (though Phillips has been paired with Gonchar lately).
Brian Lee will be 25 years old in about 5 months, and has been with the Senators since 2007-08.
At what point does he become a 'veteran'?
Just curious.
i count him as a muckler pick - hadn't Murray only just taken over GM at that point? I would have imagined all the scouting and boards etc would have been done by Muckler and his guys.
I'm not sure that scoring 20 goals at the NHL level means anything more than he can maybe/possibly be a 4th liner.I don't see him ever developing into an NHL third liner.
Look at these stats, and try to guess which current Senator it is...AHL stats can be decieving...
AHL 62GP 24 31 55
thanks - unfortunately the comparison to players of the past sometimes doesn't help me. I only moved to canada in 2008.
i noticed that after the first 2 or 3 forwards there are a lot of dmen projected to go next.
that worries me - if we pick 6 or 7 any forward we pick may be a reach. i think if we drop much lower than 3 Murray will look to trade the pick (up or down).
Well said
Excellent point,
how does he become a vet
this is a rebuilding year, those that will not be here in 2-3 years should not be ahead of him
Condra & Greening.... But I agree... Greening, if he continues the way he is, will be top 6... But Condra will probably top out at the 3rd line BUT he contributes on the PK... He is actually pretty good at that...