The harsh realities of a rebuilding season hit the Ottawa Senators hard last night.
Playing a team projected to finish near the bottom of the heap in the Western Conference, the Sens were dominated from start to finish and were never in last night's game against the Avalanche.
The Avs took it to the Senators from opening puck drop and never let up. The game was every bit as ugly as the 7-1 final would indicate and the shots, which finished 39-16 in the Avs favour, showed just how one sided this game was.
Craig Anderson's slow start continued as he was left on the hook for all seven goals. The defence isn't doing him any favours right now but he has definitely struggled to find his game in the early going this year.
Important for the Senators to put this one behind them and get ready to play on Saturday night. The team will practice at noon at the Bell Sensplex.
- Nikita Filatov was sent to Binghamton last night and some fans were taken by surprise. Being told he is actually in great spirits over the move and knows what he has to do to get back with the big team. Filatov has had a hard time adjusting to the system MacLean wants his players to play. The good news is he's committed to getting back on track. He will play for the BSens tonight and skate on the top line with Corey Locke and Kaspars Daugavins.
- Great feature by TSN's Dave Naylor on Sens prospect Darren Kramer. Kramer fought more than any other player in pro hockey last year and was a late round pick of the Sens at last year's entry draft. You can see the story here.
- The Ottawa Senators are kicking tires on a deal with the Columbus Blue Jackets. Nothing is close right now but the teams have held talks. Helps explain the two scouts in Columbus the other night.
I must say last night I was frustrated. Not because the Sens weren't playing, but because of the bad luck and calls that were going the Sens way. In no way am I saying the Sens deserved to win last night and I hope this serves as a wake up call, but can anything go right?
Bad Luck?
3rd goal = puck bounces high in the air and lands smack right in an open spot in front of an Av
5th goal = O'Brien's blind backhand pass through the middle on a pk leads to short handed goal. Those never work!
Bad calls?
4th goal, Michalek was held and unable to check his man.
Chris Neil's 'boarding' call at the end of the game
Overall. Piss poor performance. Anderson kept them in as long as he could. Disappointed with Zinabejad and Da Costa. Butler's chance last night was wasted. I think the only players that didn't disapoint last night were Michalek and Alfredsson.
I would also add Neil to the list of players that didn't disappoint.
MacLean needs to stick with concrete lines tho. The whole line juggling is just screwing w.e. chance of chemistry we could get.
I'm also glad to hear Chirp is saying Filatov is not unhappy and that he knows what he needs to do.
I'm curious as to what the deal with Columbus could be... I'm guessing they're looking to pick-up some vets. Could we see Kuba or Gonchar leaving? I doubt it but I have no clue what else we could be trading... Besides Neil perhaps but I don't think he's available.
I think for MacLean and Co. they are going to do a lot of juggling for the first 9 games while they try out players.
Once they have had a chance to test all players/combos they will drop players as needed and solidify lineups.
Then the real season for the Sens will begin!!
Again. Kuba and Goncahr NOT being traded (no matter how much people want it, myself included). THE END.
Also, Kuba is proving doubters wrong.
It's time to send Zibanejad back to Sweden so he can play a lot and play for Sweden at the World Juniors. Runblad needs to go to Bingo for the entire year to play on a team that will probably do fairly well, get some confidence and learn how to play the North American game.
With the amount of young guys in the system, it is imperative on the Sens to put them, especially Runblad and Zibanejad in a good situation. It's going to get ugly this year and that is ok. It happened with other teams and now it is our turn.
Even though Rundblad has shown some 'comfort' on the ice, I don't think he and Zib (unfortunately) are going to make it to Day 10.
The bad news is that isn't too difficult to do.
Hope the Sens can get another couple of first round picks for this year.
11/12 = 7.5
12/13 = 7.6
13/14 = 7.8
14/15 = 7.9
@my2sens
What does it matter he's worth that kind of money and we're very very far from the cap. And I don't foresee us adding on big players in the near future.
There's not many players I would consider safe on this team. Sell it all off in the spirit of the rebuild and get picks.
He is expensive, but if him and Spezza had chemistry.. wow. But they'll never trade him, especially after bringing in Carter. Plus the Sens couldn't afford whatever they'd be asking, unless they wanted to set back the rebuild another couple years.
There is nothing this team has to offer for Rick Nash, unless you're trading Spezza. Rick Nash is a pipe dream. Plus, that's not a trade a team in the first year of a rebuild will make..
Columbus needs to turn things around so I'm sure they are looking at players like Foligno, Regin, Michalek or Neil who are a little established.
I don't think they need another forward to fight for that 2nd line C position. They need to solidify their defence.
Out of those players... I wouldn't want to move any right now.
The 7D experiment was a disaster and Why is he Keeping Zbad on the first line for 4 games? The kid is not producing any offence.
You can add the decision to sit Condra who was the forward with the most PK minutes in the two games before.
A rookie coach in a rookie team with veteran players not showing for the night and boom 7-1.
The next one will be better for sure. Time to bring Filatov back from Bingo already?
I highly doubt it will happen but if he is actually available please god let's get him!!!
As for Kuba...he's been actually one of our most solid defenceman and is quickly building his trade value back up.
Gonchar on the other hand has been just aweful. Last night he made at least half a dozen rookie type mistakes. Just sad
I'm glad to hear Filatov is taking the demotion well. I really hope he workd hard. I was worried at first because he is the type to just shut it down as soon as anything negative happens
I'm just speculating what Columbus might be after. They are probably very desperate right now and need to turn things around in a hurry. I don't think they would be after guys like Greening, Condra, Smith, Da Costa, etc who are just breaking into the NHL.
I'd listen to what we could get for Folingo. He just doesn't seem to have that instinct or drive to be a top notch player. He seems to have maxed out as a 3rd or 4th line player.
They definitely need defense, but they could also add some better wingers too.
Re: last night's game: Maybe we were cloaked in failure... The unis look good but I've said it before, its a bad omen having a huge "0" on our chests...
That would definitely help us playing defence, at least at the forward position.
Kuba: -2 last night. Gonchar: 0.
I saw the game last night. They were both ok last night. Nothing more, nothing less. Far better than in the Toronto and Detroit games for sure. But to suggest Kuba has been one of our more solid defensemen is ludacris...
I'm a big Foligno fan, but I agree.... if the price is right.
No chance in hell.
On another note, though we dressed 7D I was quite amazed that he didn't let the extra guy at any given time take a shift on the 4th line as a forward. All our D looked like they sat too much last night. Karlsson was the only one to top 20mins? Hopefully he wont' be trying that strategy again.
Also Greening had the most ice time at 22:06 according to NHL.com, that's crazy! The next closest forwards were Alfie at 19:36 and Spezza at 18:04.
He tried it, it failed, let's move back to rolling 4 lines and just dressing the 6D he wants to see play that game.
Jason
Kuba + Gonchar = ALMOST $10M!!!!! That's 1/5 of our salary going to the 2 biggest underachieving d-men in the NHL right now!!!
It's too early to lose confidence, he's still trying to teach his system and get everyone playing it properly. Until the 20 game mark or so we won't really know exactly what we have or don't have.
Either way, I don't mind that our team loses big once and a while. It serves as a huge wake-up call that the team can't take for granted.
Now, I'm just a bit concerned that every other team we play will exploit how weak our team is when we're aggressively forchecked. I'm expected Washington to be equally as aggressive this Saturday. Outlook not looking good but is expected.
Can't really blame Anderson at all. We all expected this from our team. I don't think the best goaltender in the world could make a difference on our team.
I could see a Brassard for Lee trade. Benefits both teams nicely.
Only if Lee is the throw in on top of a lot more. Not sure how familiar you are with Brassard, but his price tag will be MUCH higher then Brian Lee.
Lee is a first round draft pick who is finally developing into a solid top 4 dman. With Carter, Vermette, and Umberger, Brassard is getting lost in a numbers game plus I gotta believe Columbus would like to free up some cap space.
I know what you are saying but this does help Columbus and if Lee keeps developing it could be a win for them.
I would throw in a third round pick
Prospal
Umberger (unlikely)
Tyutin (not gonna happen)
Got to be Prospal for some goddamn help! Prospal was awesome in 99-00 for us and has proven that he is still an offensive threat in the NHL. He sucked balls and got traded in 2001 for next to nothing, but has continued to put up points since, no matter what team he was on.
I doubt we can pry Umberger away but I've always wanted him here so I'd be pretty stoked if BM landed him.
SHIT the CBJ and company kind of owe us one for scoring Vermy for Snoopy. I know the pick that came our way turned into Lehner but that didn't help us compete the last few years.
And AGAIN for the love of god, were're 4 GAMES IN. BFD we lost 7-1, Rome wasn't built in one day. I have the utmost confidence that Stash's system will prevail, the players will buy in and the kids are going to get better and better.
Imagine having 2 picks in the top 5
Yakupov and Forsberg
Now that would be a rebuild.
GO SENS GO
They'd be getting 2nd overall and 4th or 5th? Then again we do have a stacked team for years to come so hell I'd even dream to get Nash like you guys! So I take it back. However, if the draft list changes like it usually does and a bunch of Canadians rise up, then fuck it.
Puempel - Spezza - Nash
Michalek - Zibanejad - Noesen
Foligno - Da Costa - Neil
Greening - ( ) - ( )
That's right, too lazy to figure out line 4.
That would make our rebuild about 2 or 3 years longer but worth it as we would probably get Yakupov this year and need a couple years to groom him Zib and Johansson
so maybe if at all and it's true. we ship out who and have to send who to the AHL or the SEL?
If it's for one of our veteran defensemen, let's hope so.
But if the deals right go for it BM.
I mentioned Prospal and Berger cause I would PREFER BM land someone who is proven offensively, and someone who has some frickin experience. Being a good 2 way player is also pretty mandatory
If reunited Alfie and Prospal could do a little damage together.
Spezza can't do it himself, we need a proven offensive center. Someone who at least has been in the NHL for 4 or 5 years. Tell me otherwise and well.......
I guess all I can is thumbs down you;re comment lol. But there's no justifying taking Brassard over
Umberger
Or
Prospal
We have enough kids and Brassard is just that, an unproven kid. Could he be a force one day? definitely. But he doesn't suit our needs and we don't need him
No thanks
Brassard has rarely been on Nash's line, they didn't click well together. He's actually going to be a pretty decent 2nd line C by the looks of it, with potential upside, and would slide right into our current rebuild.
I'm all for Prospal, but only if it was a Kuba-Prospal trade, not worth giving away real assets for a rental player.
Line any 5 of them at a time up in front of the goal and go for a 1-0 shootout win.
Bad luck I can accept but bad calls?!!?
They had 6 PP to our 4 and they converted 4 of them!!!
Thats the difference!
And can you please take off your Sens goggles, that Neil hit was very dangerous, exactly the type of play the NHL is trying to remove, Neil hit him straight in the numbers, cant be more from behind than that and plus he was about 2 feet from the boards, very vulnerable.
Per NHL.com:
Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 202
That's undersized in your world? He's only 24 as well!
It's kind of odd to give the back-up the "elite" level team and have the number one playing the bottom feeders...
Oh good lord, bringing in another old has been to play with a soon to be has been...Come on now, Prospal doesnt have any place in this rebuild....
Yes, their prospects are thin, but I wouldn't mind if they threw in Boone Jenner or Dalton Smith as part of a package of prospects and picks.
Oh really? which of our prospects is an elite centre potential?!?!
Zibanejad?
Da Costa?
Hahaha come on man, we dont have any elite prospects to begin with, not saying Brassard is elite but he is ahead of both Zib and Da Costa, Brassard has put up pts when healthy.
Ya i forgot about jenner so maybe a package coming our way for gonchar or kuba lol ya right. I dont think any trade will go down this early in the saeson but i could be wrong.
Michalek is not an elite forward. He's good. At best a 50-60 point guy and that's not elite.
Jason Spezza
for
Ryan Johansen.
Huselius (salary dump)
1st rd possible top 10 maybe top 5
I actually wouldnt mind that trade but i gave you a thumbs down cuz it aint gonna happen.
Wow. That would be a horrible trade for us.
If Murray brings in anyone it will be a younger player who will be with this team for a few years at least.
With Winchester coming back.. this team will have too many forwards. What will they do with Zibby?
I see a trade.. maybe something like 2 for 1.
Someone mentioned on HB that after the game Alfie remained on the bench staring out at the ice. McLean came out and whispered something to him. He shook his head and went into the dressing room. I wonder what was said.
That might be true but you don't need to have a top 5-10 guy in the league on your team to win a cup, look at Boston....They have very solid pieces, A LOT of them. Chara is def top 5 in the league for defense though, I'm just saying we need more than that one top 5-10 guy, but having one certainly goes a long way to helping the rebuild go faster....
Obvioulsy not a good one...
I personally can't see them finishing bottom ten with Nash, Carter, and Spezza.
I agree, but people are talking as if we have these elite stars
By trading lee and a forward for a more established d-man (methot is only an example and is only 26) we put to bed the lee/rundblad dilemma. We can send Rundblad down to Bingo to adjust while hoping Kuba plays well enough to be traded (or waived) at the deadline when Rundblad is ready.
This has REALLY been bothering me...Alfies look on his face looked very odd, didn't seem to have his positive outlook he normally has.
Tookie, I agree! I think in the end of their playing days Zibanejad may be the best of the 3, but for right now Brassard is a great addition to a rebuild as he is still growing into his potential as well and has proven he can produce at this level. Zibanejad is not ready to be a 2nd line C in the NHL right now.
Zibby will be sent to SEL or AHL at the 9 game mark or sooner, he's just not ready which is normal for a 18 yo kid.
MacLean probably told Alfie to do his job, speak to the young guys after a big blowout game, stuff like that. Alfie did look like he regreted coming back just sitting there alone on the bench starring into nothingness...
Unless a miraculous playoff push happens, this is his last season...
Let the records show that today, October 14th 2011, FOUR GAMES into his NHL coaching career, Senators fans have begun doubting and questioning our head coach.
You hate his D pairings? Wrong. You hate the personel we have on D. The coach can't change that.
Our PK has been bad, but that comes with the territory of bad D. Again, coach can't do much about that in the short term.
I'm just going to assume that when you said "special teams" you only meant the PK, because the PP has been absolutely lights out. 6 power play goals in 4 games.
I'm sorry but a 50-60point 2nd liner is elite. He is a dominating forwer forward. I gurantee any team would love him
Ummm that is not elite
He is not elite, far from it, he would get 50-60 on the first line too. He's good, but not elite, elite is Crosby, Ovechkin, Sedin twins, Toews, etc...
I hope that Sens management realizes that the key to success is to make large impulsive decisions/trade s after 1 lost game in a rebuilding year where there are no expectations!
I only saw 1 person question the coaching, relax bud, dont make such a fuss about nothing, people are venting, no trades will happen, Sens are not trying to improve immediately, they are developping young players, that loss is actually good, makes them humble, brings them back down to earth, it also brings the coaches wrath in practice, lol, nobody likes to bag skate!!!!
I was right behind them...
Coach Paul said:"Come on, you're making me look bad, I'll buy the beer!"
#17 was on the ice for 4 goals...when the pace quickens he cannot step it up. He was even trying to throw some body checks, to no effect...
Ryan Johansen
Nail Yakupov Next Ovie 2012 .....
Nathan MacKinnon..Next Crosby 2013
Matt Puempel
Mika Zibanejad
Jakob Silfverberg
Mark Stone
Stefan Noesen
How can you say no too this ?? And Enough cap space too add pieces ..thats called Rebuilt
Well if anyone was feeling good about themselves, they sure arent anymore...
Maybe not in wins but we did score 12+ goals in 3 games, those who tought it would be as simple as scoring in the 3rd again, DENIED!
First of all, using the word "elite" in the same sentence as "2nd liner" is pretty much an oxymoron.
Second, this debate undercores the whole problem with the Senators, we have no elite players, and very few elite prospects. What we do have is alot of depth, and alot of promising propects who project to be 2nd and third liners and second or third defence pairings. We have some elite prospects, but not many (yet).
Hahaha hell I would kiss my mother inlaw if this was to happen!!
A real Sens fan could not say no to this...
The shorthand goal against and the 4 PP goals against did this team in.
On the Avs 1st goal.. Anderson made 4 great saves.. but the Sens could not get to the puck to help him and the 5th shot went in.
Yeah they got outskated and outhustled badly but on 5 on 5 play got outscored 2 - 1.
Expect these nights.
But I really wonder what was going through Alfie's mind as he sat there. Did he wonder why he did come back? That he does want out?
I think the problem is that we scored 1st, everyone knows comebacks can't happen if you lead a game early haha.
A lot of overreaction today. We'll see small changes, small improvements and slow progress, but it will come.
Only one I would even consider as approaching that level would be Lehner...and even that who knows, goalies are such a hard position to predict.
Spezza and Karlsson are elite players.
The Sens have not had the luxury of picking top 3 over several years to get elite prospects like Stamkos, Seguin, Duchene, Hall, Crosby, Ovie, Tavares, etc.
The odd time a lower draft pick does become elite, eg Datsyuk, Zetterberg.. but that is not the norm anymore.
The Sens have the chance over the next couple of drafts to get those elite prospects. They will have to have bad seasons, but that's what happens during a re-build. That will better set them up for the future.
I know right, people think elite players grow on tree's?!!?
We have no elite prospects, period. None project to be 1st line, let alone be elite.
Spezza is as close as we get(but far from a prospect). Karlsson is good at what he does, I think he has potential to become an elite offensive "defense" but he needs to improve his back play.
In Ottawa, Brassard would be a true 2nd line Center and would help make the Zibanejad back to Sweden move much easier to swallow.
The Price of this move is the only worry, what is CBJ management looking for in return? I'd say D, when Wisniewski is considered your Top D-man right now, while Russell continues to shape his game, you've got problems.
TSN and The Hockey News disagree- neither of them made the cut for either publication.
Elite, to me, means top 10 at their position, maybe top 15. Do you really think Spezza or Karlsson are top 15 at their postion?
People throw that word (Elite) around way too much....
The term "elite" can be used in many different ways. Yes there are elite scorers such as the Crosby's, Ovechkin's ect. But there is also "elite" checkers such as Neil. Neil is one of the best if not the best in the league at his role. Therefore you can call him elite
So yes you can call Michalek an elite second liner. He dominates the forecheck every time on the ice plus he scores. And if you talk to a true proffessnal who knows hockey aka Piere Dorion (which I did) he will tell you that the word aroundthe league is that Michalek is one of the best power forwards in the league when healthy. Yes he hasn't been healthy wince arriving to Ottawa but this guy is a pure talent...
Well we could go through all of the teams centreman and D but that would be too long plus im lazy, its almost quitting time!
Spezza is, imo, in the top 15 centre of the League, and Karlsson is def in the top 15 in offensive D-men. no doubt
Spezza and Karlsson are elite players.
Spezza is as close as we get(but far from a prospect). Karlsson is good at what he does, I think he has potential to become an elite offensive "defense" but he needs to improve his back play.
Read what I quoted, I was referring to the line where he said we have no elite players, not prospects.
Spezza is as close as we get(but far from a prospect). Karlsson is good at what he does, I think he has potential to become an elite offensive "defense" but he needs to improve his back play.
Read what I quoted, I was referring to the line where he said we have no elite players, not prospects.
ignore what I said hahaha
Spezza is easily top 10-15 at his position, and Karlsson is a top 15 OFD. No question about it, if you think they are not, you're drinking too much Toronto Sports Network kool aid.
Whoa whoa, but he spoke to Dorion, haha, like that means anything...
So yes Michalek is an elite 2nd liner in this league
What would you consider an elite prospect that we COULD have now (ie: don't impulsively spurt our "Yakupov!!")? Stamkos is really the only player drafted in the last 4 years that became the elite player he was billed to be (so far).
Also, a ton of our prospects are 18-19 years old. These guys have not come close to finishing their development. Just because they don't have the glamour of the 1st overall pick doesn't mean they won't develop into great players.
Hockeysfuture considers Rundblad an elite prospect... I'm siding with them on this one.
oh wait I also met both Hulk Hogan and MachoMan that same week!
If you wanna say guys are good a different roles, say so, but dont call Neil elite, LOL. Or any other 3rd liner...
Oh and what did you think Dorion would tell you, that nobody wants Michalek and that they got screwed up the @$$ in the Heatley trade!?!?
Do we really want to bring in a player, ANY player with that long and expensive a commitment????? ????
Karllsson is also an elite offensive dfenceman. There's a reason why he's an all-star in his second season. One the best pure offensive defenseman in the world.
I would love for someone to name me 15 better offensive defenseman in the NHL than Karlsson. Go on...give it a try(and remember offensive defenseman doesn't mean he has a good +/-)
I think you should check your non-sens goggles... Neil hit him from the side/front - not the back (unless you were referring to the numbers on the front of his jersey?!?!).
Still the player was in a vulnerable position and could have gotten hurt. Just get your facts right before you rant, please...
Well for one we could of had Kopitar and or M. Staal (injured), both of which are elite players...
That's what I'm talking about. johansson would fill out our prospect pool so nicely. We would no doubt be a contender in a few years
Pierre Dorion watches hockey players every day during the season. That is his job. After the past couple of drafts... I'm willing to say he definitely knows what he is doing.
I'm not saying Neil is elite.. but he is definitely good at what he does do. Be a physical force (sometimes over the line) and a pain in the ass. A lot of teams would be interested in him if he was on the block... The question is... is he on the block this year?
After last night.. I'm willing to add Matt Duchene to being an elite player.
Agreed but Muckler could not draft & only had 2 full-time scouts + a couple of parttimers. No wonder we did not get either of those two.
well there's two things the matter with that.
1) Neither of them are considered prospects. We could have had Chris Pronger too if you want to go back that far.
2) in what sense is Mark Staal considered elite? Great player, but not elite.
Also, most respected hockey writers consider Rundblad to be one of the top 5 propects right now.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/breakingnews/winnipegs-mark-stone-keeps-campaigning-for-canadian-junior-mens-hockey-team-131845263.html
You said COULD of had, those 2 were elite prospects and turned out to be so.
I dont really look at Rundblad as being a prospect, dont know why though, maybe its because he's much older and has played vs men for the past 2 years? He's not going to be elite, but he will be a good offensive defenseman.
"Ya you clearly know nothing about hockey if you're saying that there are 15 better centers in the world than Spezza. He is definetely elite!!"
1 Henrik Sedin VAN C 82 19 75 94
2 Steven Stamkos TBL C 82 45 46 91
3 Brad Richards DAL C 72 28 49 77
4 Eric Staal CAR C 81 33 43 76 -
5 Jonathan Toews CHI C 80 32 44 76
6 Ryan Getzlaf ANA C 67 19 57 76
7 Ryan Kesler VAN C 82 41 32 73
8 Anze Kopitar LAK C 75 25 48 73
9 Mike Ribeiro DAL C 82 19 52 71
10 Joe Thornton SJS C 80 21 49 70
11 John Tavares NYI C 79 29 38 67
12 Matt Duchene COL C 80 27 40 67
13 Jeff Carter PHI C 80 36 30 66
14 Sidney Crosby PIT C 41 32 34 66
15 Mike Richards PHI C 81 23 43 66 8
more coming...
17 Nicklas Backstrom WSH C 77 18 47 65
18 Jeff Skinner CAR C 82 31 32 63
19 Patrik Elias NJD C 81 21 41 62
20 Mikko Koivu MIN C 71 17 45 62
21 David Krejci BOS C 75 13 49 62
22 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 56 23 36 59
23 Mikhail Grabovski TOR C 81 29 29 58
24 Tomas Plekanec MTL C 77 22 35 57
25 Patrice Bergeron BOS C 80 22 35 57
26 Paul Stastny COL C 74 22 35 57 -
27 Jason Spezza OTT C 62 21 36 57 3
28 Tuomo Ruutu CAR C 82 19 38 57
29 Logan Couture SJS C 79 32 24 56
30 Vincent Lecavalier TBL C 65 25 29 54
Granted, not all of these players are "elite" because some are lacking defensively...s ound familiar?
My point is, I can name at least 15 centers I would take ahead of Spezza from this list. Yeah, I know nothing about hockey...
Really what I meant is players that we could have drafted that as of now would be considered prospects.
Now seeing as how you walked right into this one... If you do in fact consider Mark Staal an elite player... how is Jared Cowen not an elite prospect? He's projected to be the exact same type of player.
Marc Staal plays for the Rangers but ok, lol.
Neil was no the block last year, nobody wanted his services @2M a pop, not worth it.
I get what you're trying to say. I think Spezza is a "bubble" elite player. But I think your list is pretty inaccurate. I mean come on Datysuk is at 22? Wow. I think with that you lose a lot of creditabilty right there.
Zibby will be sent back after he gets his 9 games, and then we are down to 14 with Filatov.
Winchester gets traded/waived and we are down to 13, perfect.
Either play Rundblad, or send him down for 10 games.
Then stick with however the season goes as we said. See what offers come in for Foligno, Regin, Kuba, Gonchar at the deadline if any.
As for Spezza, drop it, he wont be going anywhere anytime soon. IF Ottawa was going to make a trade like that, it wouldn't be until the draft, when they had a player in mind OR the deadline on a massive overpayment, not at the beginning of the year on a fair deal.
I believe the Leafs and Rangers were interested and offering slightly more money.... But he's not an "elite" grinder.... wow, that sounds weird.
do you really think I put that list together? The list is the top scorers, nothing to do with my opinion of where they rank.I merely listed the top 30 scoring centers from last year, and used it as a reference because Spezza is a scoring center.
Wow, that is a terrible list. To say those are all ahead of Spezza is just ridiculous. Spezza can play at a point per game pace and gives a hell of a lot more to his team then a Ribeiro or some of these other 2nd line Cs you mention.
And the only one in the 2nd half of your list that can be considered better than Spezza is Datsyuk
Well maybe using a more accurate list to make your point is a good idea. Taking Spezza's career worst year to point out that he's not as good as others on the list, doesn't really make sense and is a pretty poor example to support your arguement.
Fair enough, I was only trying to point out that there are alot of centers in the league who I think are better players than Spezza ( I won't use the elite word - it seems to have angered some..)
I definitely agree with that.
Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos
Eric Staal
Jonathan Toews
Ryan Getzlaf
Ryan Kesler
Anze Kopitar
Matt Duchene
John Tavares
Sidney Crosby
Pavel Datsyuk
Malkin
Jeff Skinner
(on the edge with these two)
Nicklas Backstrom
Logan Couture
Whether that makes Spezza elite or not, I don't know.
You only posted players by point totals, dont you think Spezza with, hmmm, lets say, Chicago or Vancouver wouldnt put up close to 100 pts like he did back with Heatley.
The fact that you have Crosby 14th is an indicator that you dont know hockey, lol..
My top 10 C's that I think are better than Spezza (not relying on point totals, lol)
Crosby
Toews
Stamkos
Datsyuk
Staal
Kopitar
Getzlaf
Thornton
Backstrom
Kesler
11. Spezza
Paul Maclean likely to dress 7 defencemen again for the Washington game. TSN
10-1 wash lol hey if avs can score 7
Once again, the list i used was merely the top scoring centers from last year - not MY list of top centers. How hard is that to understand?
Rest assured, MY list sould have Crosby at number 1, and would be very close to what you have have listed.
I really thought the fact that the list included point totals listed in order, from top down, would be enough of a hint that I was listing the top scoring centers...
I disagree, I think Filatov ONLY came to Ottawa because he thought he would have a spot on the big club, he didnt want to play for CBJ's AHL affiliate why would he play for ours?
I say if he struggles early, he bolts for KHL or just doesnt report...
Problem is you quoted a guy asking your to name 15 better centres than Spezza and then you pasted that list. It just looks like you were ok with the order of that list, especially after you said "more coming"...
You would expect the Caps the destoy us but I think it will be much close than people think, Im only going by the thought of we cant play any worse.
It could also be the game that unleashes Ovie, he is struggling to score, can we be the team Ovie unleashes on?
Anyways, I want a loss but also a good game.
Thanks
Ok, I guess I was in a hurry to respond, and make my point, and bacause of that, I didn't make it clear.
No list of mine would have Ribeiro on it....I really don't like that guy.
Like I said your list is very close to what mine would be, and I really think Elite (sorry) means top 10, although this, too, could be argued..
Fair enough bro, I know you didnt mean that list to be your own, only playing with ya!
Ribeiro, lol, the guy is playing good recently tho, haha! I remember watching him kill teams in Rouyn-Noranda of the QMJHL!!
Words are defined for a reason...so that people know what they mean. What people here are essentially saying is "So and so is an Elite pile of crap".
I mean you could argue on a grand scale that all players in the nhl are elite compared to a beer leagues most guys play in....But when discussing elite nhl players it doesn't take into account those leagues.
Oh well....Here is hoping something interesting happens next game so we can have a different topic of discussion around here for a day or two.
So cater to him?
I guess I'm just too old and grumpy to see when someone is just trying to get a rise out of me...I used to see through this kind of thing...
Then your team of the future looks like:
Yakupov - Galchenyuk - MacKinnon
Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Stone
Puempel - Da Costa - Butler
Greening - Prince - Noesen
Smith
Cowen - Rundblad
Borowiecki - Karlsson
Wiercioch - Gryba
Lehner
Or maybe come last one further year from that and get Ekblad on D.
Crosby
Stamkos
Malkin (should be a winger)
Kopitar
Datsyuk
H. Sedin
E. Staal
Toews
9. Getzlaf, Backstrom and B Richards are around the same level as Spezza. Thornton is just too old now, but would be close (just behind) to those 4.
Duchene & Tavares have a chance to one day join or exceed these above groups, but aren't there yet.
Kesler and M Richards are 2nd line Cs, helped by the lower competition they face.
Skinner is a winger.
Finally Claude Giroux is the sleeper I think can enter that top end and possibly move Spezza down 1 more or at least join his group of 5.
The rest aren't even close to reaching levels Spezza has already proven he can attain.
Tookie.. there were a few teams that wanted Neil when he was a UFA.. The Rangers and the Leafs are two that come to mind. I believe the Leafs actually offered him more money.. but he wanted to stay in Ottawa and he got what the market was offering actually took less than what he was offered.
He had an amazing game against the Wild but we all know he can't play every night like that. He loves playing in Ottawa and is a good leader. He is not an elite goal scorer.. but he can put in about 10 or so. He does play on the edge and sometimes takes stupid penalties.. but he's not the only one.
This team is not going to aim to finish last this year or finish last next year. I could see a bottom 3 finish this year, but I strongly doubt back to back last place finishes.
We don't have the assets to get 2 top 5 picks, and even if we did, we wouldn't go after Galchenyuk.
Filatov was traded -- I don't think he had a say. But yes he could have gone to the KHL.. but he wants to play in the NHL. I think once the lineup is figured out.. and a couple of games under KK then he will be up again... we all know there will be injuries. Spezza is playing injured, it appears.. from missing practices and a lot of stretching in TV time outs. Butler out. Winchester ready soon to come back.
Too many forwards.. something has to give.
Haha, obviously it isn't their gameplan, I was joking.
However, to say they don't have the potential to have back to back last place finishes (while isn't probable) it is possible.
Think about if Alfy retires after this year, that leaves an already big hole even wider.
Also, if you notice Spezza/Michalek isn't in that lineup, so yes we do have the assets to get a top 5 pick. easily.
If we do finish bottom 3 this year, we probably will land one of Forsberg or Yakupov, who both have top line potential and can step in right away. That eases the loss (at least in terms of production) of a 39 year old Alfredsson.
You also will notice that Mike Milbury isn't a GM in the NHL anymore, so dealing a top 5 pick for a player who's injury prone or a center who's almost 30 is very, very unlikely.
Its hard to know what's a joke and what's not a joke on here. Guy yesterday proposed a lineup for 2012-13 that had Yakupov, Parise and Hemsky in it.
Almost every GM in the league would trade a 3-5 overall pick for Spezza straight up. As you said before, not every 1st or every 5th overall pick becomes a star.
It would be Ottawa who wouldn't let him go for simply a top 5 pick. Look at the Jeff Carter trade, you'd expect Ottawa to at least get a mid-high level prospect.
This is a very good point.
Pageau finishes the best scorer of the LHJMQ,
same with Puempel in the OHL and Stone in the WHL
It probably won't happen, but it could be close... I never really followed sens prospect before this year, but now , whit all the good kids we are having its becoming interesting !
GO FUTUR SENS GO
Voracek is a 2nd line winger, we already have a ton of prospects who can one day fill that kind of role (Puempel, Silfverberg, Noeson, Stone, Filatov)
the 2012 draft is much better than the 2011 draft. And the 3rd overall pick is significantly different from the 8th overall pick.
IF Spezza was to be dealt (which he won't) it would be to a buying team at the deadline for a sizable return, but no top 5 pick.
Voracek is a former 7th overall 21 year old proven back to back 50 point producer on a bad team in the NHL. So it is really a 7th an 8th and a 3rd. So prob would be able to get a 3-5 for that (as i didn't say 3rd specifically)
amounts of posts,that we are now at the 170 count, and most of it, on who is "elite" and who is not !!
Definition of "elite" :
Group who possess high abilities, long track record of
competence in a demanding field.
To me there are only a few, who can be labelled as "elite"
Won't name names , but last year he led the NHL scoring race
by a margin of 20 or so points, until he got hit in Winter Classic game.
Past players incl Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr Wayne Gretzky, Mike Bossy, Mario Lemieux, and a few others.
As good as Spezza can be, he is not an "elite" performer yet !
Rockin Robert
We win Saturday and everyone will be talking how great we are again.
Foligno was talked about going to the blue jackets before, who knows.
We all knew there would be growing pains.
Saturday is a brand new game.
We just need to shake it off and play better.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bsenshockeylive
Thanks!
I view the players listed above as being generational talent. one step above elite....
realistically there are 5-10 elite players in the league at any given time then if you are lucky you may have 1-2 generational talents. crosby and ovechkin both fit this criteria.
stamkos and the sedin sisters are examples of what I'd consider elite at this point...
what I find interesting is that if you look at top offensive d for the past few years, they are typically later picks not first rounders...last year the highest scoring 1st rounder was 11th...
He also scored their 2nd goal in the 3rd period.. B-Sens are losing 3-2.
They have yet to win this season. Going to take some time. They lost a lot of experience on the D. They assigned Louie Caporusso to Elmira.
Does his skating remind anyone else of Havlat?
granted it has been a while since I've seen Havlat skate, but every time Kita had the puck I had Havlat flashbacks...
no problem, i dont deserve credit for the stream, i just found it using the power of google and other hockey forums.
A lot of unrecognized suits up by me tonight. Other team scouts?
Pageau - 1G
Prince returned to the lineup but didn't play much. Finished with -2, no points.
Noesen didn't play. This probably explains why he couldn't score any points in the last 3 games
Stone extends his multi-point streak to 8 games. 2A so far midway through second.
Auld needs to be playing games too.
Anderson's newboorn is probably keeping him from getting usual rest, everything should come together some point this season when we start to gel as a group.
Tough loss to watch, feel bad for the boys. Go sens
filatov's official formspring page has more http://www.formspring.me/filat21
soon force a return to the NHL, if he continues to play
with total commitment, desire and passion !
Rockin Robert
I view the players listed above as being generational talent. one step above elite....
realistically there are 5-10 elite players in the league at any given time then if you are lucky you may have 1-2 generational talents. crosby and ovechkin both fit this criteria.
stamkos and the sedin sisters are examples of what I'd consider elite
Great post on determining that statement! Agree with your statements,but Stamkos is not "elite", until at least another 5 years in the NHL, without dropping his PPG too low.
Spezza has been in the NHL 10 years, and is getting close to "elite". Alfredsson is !!
I don't understand how Brian Lee sits and Kuba still finds his way on the starting roster...
Am I the only one that is confused?