Hat tip to The 6th Sens for this story.
While the season hangs in the balance here in Ottawa, you have to think that fans in Binghamton are at least a little bit excited about the team they may be able to ice this upcoming season.
With guys like Mark Stone, Robin Lehner, Jared Cowen and Mika Zibanejad all AHL-eligible due to their entry level contracts and host of other young prospect close to making the jump, the Binghamton Senators will be worth watching in the event of a lockout.
With some speculating that worst case scenario, this lockout could last more than a full season, it’s important for both players and fans to start making alternate plans.
How do you plan on coping with a lengthy lockout?
- Some good news over the weekend as forward Peter Regin indicated he has been cleared for contact and that rehab on his injured shoulder is progressing well. I've mentioned it before but Regin definitely has a chance to be an important player for the Senators but only if he can stay healthy.
- Former-Senator and public enemy number one, Dany Heatley is suing his ex-agent for $11 million dollars. Heatley claims that Stacey McAlpine lured him into several real-estate ventures across Canada and the United States with promises of huge returns. Wonder how Sens Owner Eugene Melnyk feels about this case?
- This has been making the rounds for the past week or so but I figured I would post it here as well. It’s a 14 minute video of all 78 of Erik Karlsson’s points last season. I should warn you- it will make you that much more desperate for the return of NHL hockey. View at your own risk!
- Plenty of good suggestions came in during Friday’s “GM for a Week” post. Most of you would place the emphasis on adding another top six forward while others would make defence a priority. Liked the suggestion of Sandy best, who took an aggressive approach, offer-sheeting PK Subban and then trading for Evander Kane.
Last season he wanted to complete his contract and help with the 100th season and now he's looking to do whatever is best for his progression to the NHL.
I think this guy will be a star for us for a long time.
Yup, definitely shows commitment to the team. I knew he would be good when he stayed behind in Sweden for the year @ 1/3 the money just to honour his contract and his team.
Who knows what I will do with no hockey...someho w watch more football?
Hoffman- Zibanejad- Petersson
Prince- Cannone- Grant
Dziurzynski- Pageau- Kramer
Culek/Cowick/Hamilton
Cowen- Benoit
Weircioch- Borocop
Eckford- Blood
Cleasson/Wideman
Lehner
DAT LINEUP!
But assuming other clubs will do the same as well.
Even without a lockout they might have to do this if we don't make the Q4Q trade we've been waiting on.
But even so, our Bingo lineup should be solid and I do see the potential benefits to our young players getting to play together in Bingo.
Then again, with the exception of Cowen, they could all play in Bingo anyway.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Karma's a bitch
And so is Heatley, lmao
Well with the way they played in camp I would strongly doubt Pageau and Hoffman dont play together.
Silfverberg DaCosta Petersson/Schneider
Hoffman Pageau Stone
Prince Cowick Kramer
Hopefully AHL puts some money into their gamecenter equivalent.
I recently re-watched (and would recommend everyone to do the same) game 7 again from about the 6:30 mark of the 3rd. Silfverberg is an NHL ready player, no doubt about it.
Ok I like Silfverberg aswell but come on man, a couple of minutes of offensive time isnt NHL rdy. Where was he in the first 2 periods, aswell as the other full game he played. He's not rdy and it showed, his complete game wasnt very good, he looked lost most of the time, did not generate offense (apart from maybe 2 whole minutes in game 7).
Love the guy but he needs time in the A, maybe even just 1 season, just to get used to the speed of the NA Ice.
He's really up there thats for sure but I think I still like Ovie better, yes I know bad year under a defensive coach but watch him breakout again this year with Oates, offensive minded coach and not to mention Backstrom's return.
But apart from Ovie, I think Karlsson is right there. You never know what these guys will do next!
I will assume you ran from that hockey insiderr clown? I see he posted a false story that Gretzky was in the hospital and got a beatdown as a result?
Stay away...far away! :)
If both NHL and AHL are options for him, I would bet he plays more NHL games than AHL. He has lots to learn for sure, he was also riding sky high confidence at the time which makes a huge difference.
All I am saying is that in that very short window he showed he can play at an NHL level and is ready based on that.
he would be on the NHL roster for the majority of his first pro NA season. Likely a few short stints in the A, 15 games or so I would guess.
Dodged a bullet on that one.
Did plenty of thinking when it came to joining his "team" but watching the wheels fall off lately has made me quite relieved I made the decision I did.
IF the lockout is an entire season, the players go to Europe to play for about 1/4 of what they make now (I'm guessing). So they are down about 75% of their normal income. IF they ever want to play NHL hockey again.. they will need to take some kind of roll-back.. (it will probably be less than the 24% the Owners have proposed).. so how will they be ahead in any work-stoppage.
They are more than willing to go work in Europe for a lot less than they are willing to accept in a new CBA.
Does anyone else see the logic in this?
I would assume the NHLPA is thinking a short term loss this season is worth it for getting a better long term deal in place.
Further to this, Binghamton has it's regular season schedule up.... there are a lot of Friday/Saturday home games this season...
What's the story? he asked you to join?
Might make me feel better hear that in my house while staring at my blank plasma screen...
And I don't know about you guys but this BSens lineup looks more exciting to me than our current NHL lineup. If our top prospects can develop chemistry down there, we will be back with the elite in no time and for many years to come.
-He ALWAYS has his head up on the point and he always puts the puck to the net when there is a guy screening the goalie. Obviously his skill is enormous, but his hockey IQ is very high as well.
- There were so many plays where he took a risk defensively and it paid off offensively. That takes a lot of courage, but with Paulrus behind the bench, I think he gave Erik the freedom to be himself.
- Spezza has an absolutely lethal shot - he could easily be a 40-goal scorer in this league if he put the puck on net more.
And the biggest thing I noticed (well, remembered) is how many times the Sens had incredible surges late in games. How many times were they down a goal or two (or three) and then Erik, Spezza, and Alfie would lead a comeback charge? The mental fortitude of that team was so special and I hope they continue to have that mental strength in the years to come. Kudos to MacLean for bringing in that mindset!
Canada, usa gets 2-3 teams and if others need more than one than let them,
Maybe a 20 game round robin and than goto playoffs, we could even have a 25 and under tourney too to see who rules the young guns.
World cup of hockey would be great to watch.
Give me something new, than the nhl will understand we watch because of the talent.
nice idea but there is no way the organisers of such a thing would be able to get the insurance to cover the players
I think you can Insure anything, as long as your willing to pay for it.
He also had a really quiet wc tournament despite playing on a 2nd line with alfie, and playing on european ice he was invincible the entire tournament.
He is without a doubt highly skilled, but that does not mean he will immediatly compete for a calder or become a scoring machine. Have you guys not learned anything from the rundblad hype last year?
http://www.easports.com/nhl/promo/nhl-webcast
To clarify, I never said he was going to become a scoring machine or compete for a calder. I just think he is NHL ready, will spend more time in the NHL than AHL his first full NA season. I only hope he'll have that option.
I also don't think the learning curve is as big for forwards as it is for defense. Besides, Silf is naturally a strong 2 way player, Rundblad wasn't considered strong defensively ever, not even on European ice.
I'm not going to worry about what Rundblad did when considering what Silfverberg can bring.
Dropping a player into a playoff game for his first NHL appearance isn't really a good judge of whether or not he is NHL ready. Let him have his training camp and pre-season before we make any judgements on whether he's ready or not.
Given that we have an opening or 2 in our top six, who do you think is "more" NHL-ready? Zibby? Hoffman? Petersson?
I think the argument should be more about who is the "most" ready to take a role in our top 6. At the very least, this would be a slightly more positive conversation to balance the usual negativity from some posters.
Love the guy but he needs time in the A, maybe even just 1 season, just to get used to the speed of the NA Ice.
You really cant determine that he isn't NHL ready based on stepping into the playoffs on a team he's never even practised with. This isn't shinny hockey and there is a learning curve when you are playing a coaches system.
It's hilarious that anyone on this board feels they can make a call one way or the other based on the amount of time we saw him and the circumstances.
he's got the skill, the speed, the shot and the IQ. Let's see how he does after going through training camp and learning the system before deciding he is or isnt NHL ready.
I'd say that TODAY it's something like this in terms of NHL ready.
Zibanejad
Hoffman
Silfverberg
Petersson
However, I think after camp and 20 games into the season (if there is one) Silfverberg could be at the top of that list.
I think he needs time in the A but it could possibly be minimal - particularly if he finds a little chemistry with Turris/Alfie (or whomever).
Someone should make a clip like that of all of Spezza's points, too...
i was just pointing out, that don't put put high expectation on unproven(nhl level) european player.
By the way my statement of silfv not being nhl ready was comfirmed from what i saw in the wc tournament playing top 6 and pp with the nhl elite on his backyard ice. even landeskog looked better than him despite having a limited role.
Zibanejad NHL rdy? Hax? really? On what do you base your opinion on? Camps? SEL? WJC??
Not saying your wrong here, would just like to know why Zib, was kinda shocking...
I would have them as:
Hoffman
Silf
Zib
Petersson
Please stop talking about Landeskog, I cry everytime I see his name on a Sens blog...Shoulda coulda woulda!
I don't think any of those 4 are ready NOW really, but I do think that Zib might be closer to it today based mostly on practicing with the team in the spring - but there aren't any wide gaps in that list really and the order could change easily after two days of camp.
Well the 'kog had a full year of NHL under his belt don't forget.
Zibby did have 9 games last season of actual, real NHL games... so he likely has a better idea of what to expect than the others... hence, more ready.
Not saying he's going to be the best, but Hoffman (0 games), Silf (2 playoff games), Petersson (1 game) certainly have less experience to date and that experience should certainly play into their NHL-readiness. On the other hand, both Hoff and Pet have NA experience on the small ice, which could help them.
To be honest, I was thinking the same thing, I dont think they are NHL ready but due to our situation, one of them will play in the NHL, if a season is played. Silfverberg I think has the better chance to make it NOW, since he seems to be the Sens Golden boy.
But I wouldnt be surprised to see Hoffman have more of an immediate impact due to his familiarity of NA ice and his offensive style of play.
Silfverberg Spezza Michalek
Latendresse Turris Alfie
Greening Regin/Zibanejad Condra/Neil
O'Brien Smith Neil/Condra
I dont really see Zib as a legit top 6, plus no room anyways for him. Its better for him to get top 6 minutes in Bingo and get counted on and learn the NA game.
Yeah I think given we're still rebuilding, Silf makes the most sense. If there was an idea that we needed to win right out of the gate I could see them trying to go with Hoffman (or Zibanejad on the wing).
What about Noesen and Puempel? They would be returned to junior but Prince and Pageau would not.
Check post #9
Noesen and Puempel are not AHL-eligible.
Pageau and Prince are and the Senators have never (to date anyway) put a kid back in junior if he was AHL-eligible.
Do the kids still say "pwn"? Man I am out of touch.
Yeah that would be wicked, Noesen very probable but Puempel I dont even think he plays a game for the Sens.
And its has to be sooner rather than later as Spezza has limited time left on his back.
Only in MTL :)
Is Silf NHL ready? Sure he could skate in our roster and make a few great plays. But the question will be how he peforms out of the gate. If he has the ability to do what EK did, which is a small stint in the A, he'll be better for it.
Who knows if Silf will be ready for the big club or not... pending a lockout we'll find out soon enough.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised either way. That handful of big club time during the playoffs was a long time ago player development-wis e. A taste of the speed and a good summer training could do wonders for the kid.
I am not sure but I think he did his off season training back in Sweden? Would have been nice to see him join Turris et al spending summer in Ottawa with the trainers.
Damn he'd shore up our blue line nicely. Come on over to Team Sweden Nik!
Puempel should be with the with the sens hopefully. He can become a effective goal scorer if he takes the bobby jryan development route.
he had a solid stint in the ahl according to randy lee. puempel started out on 4th line, his game improved and on the 8th game he got top six mins. By the 9th and final game he skated with the puck hard along the boards, and right when he crossed the blueline he fired a rocket from a slapper and scored what could have been the game winning goal till the bears tied the game and won it in ot.
The goal that puempel scored was a laser that showed why he is pure goal scorer. I hope he pots over 40 goals this season on a line with radek faksa with the rangers.
Not everyone is basing their opinion on 2 NHL games, and a few highlights....t here are a few on here who actively watched his SEL games this season.....He will be good, and IMO if he spends the season in the minors(due to the lockout) you better believe he will be a stud next season. The ONLY thing that is a question mark is how long the transition period will be....and a lockout will hopefully remove this concern.
I go on nhl.com and watch the goal highlights from a lot of players but my favorite players are the playmakers and not so much goalscorers and i haven't been able to find a place to see "assist" highlights. so this is just a treat!
Condra-Daug-and O'Brien move the trash to the Curb please. No offense to these guys, they were serviceable but not on an improving team with endless potentiel. Condra could be our 13th forward but I just don't see them being of any real value this year. I hope Murray can move a couple for some sort of return(7th round picks anyone).
Tookie i value your opinion but Silfverberg is NHL ready in my opinion. He has the wheels and the shot to make it now.
The CHL players are setting up a Union.
So will they get in cahouts with the NHL and both strike/lockout at the same time.
Also Fehr keeps talking about how the MLB has no salary cap, the players are happy.. but he neglects to point out that when he was in MLB his players had 4 strikes...
This guy is going to kill hockey just like he killed baseball.
He's not going to back down and Bettman will lock them out until they take yet another cut and Fehr wont have any of that.
Gonna be a long lockout...like Fehr said...possibly 2 years...
Time to concentrate on NFL!
Also this is why the players wanted to freeze there salaries for the next 3 years, they know that profits will be hit hard if there is a lockout.
Worst decision by Ottawa, Hasek in the Olympics...
How can amateur players set up a union?
No idea but here's an article from the Peterborough Examiner: (Actually its the only article found everywhere, was just the first link I clicked, lol)
A union for Canadian Hockey League players has been in the works for 14 months and will soon go public, says a spokeswoman.
Sandra Slater, a consultant for the Canadian Hockey League Players Association (CHLPA), expects the group to go public within 10 days. The CHLPA aims to create better representation for junior hockey players regarding rights, education packages and compensation for their use in league branding as well as CHL and Hockey Canada events, particularly, the World Junior Hockey Championship.
“The CHL is big business. They make millions of dollars a year and these kids make it for them,” said Slater. “Hockey Canada is a big part of this as well.”
If a 60 per cent majority of players accept the union, Slater says the CHL will have no choice but to recognize it by law.
“We're hoping to have a good working relationship,” she said.
According to a statement, the CHLPA was officially formed Aug. 9 at a meeting in Montreal where players from all three CHL leagues – the OHL, QMJHL and WHL – adopted a constitution. A board of directors was elected and a bargaining committee struck.
Word of the CHLPA was first reported at www.thejuniorhockeynews.com. Slater admits it leaked before the CHLPA was prepared to go public so the group is keeping the identity of its member confidential until a formal launch.
Interesting. I can't see them really siding with the NHLPA or vice versa though. Their concerns would mostly be about player safety and other such things. Since they're amateurs they can't really have much of a say about the money and how it's divided or anything.
I have to disagree with you.
I think Silfverburg is far and away the most NHL ready.
Here's the biggest difference, Silfverburg has been playing at a higher level of hockey I would say then the AHL and he dominated. Now, thats not to say he will come in and dominate - that would be unfair - BUT, with a bit of time, he will be solid and I think playing in the NHL is the best answer. You can't judge him on the playoff series he saw action in, not fair whatsoever.
Hoffman has done well in the AHL but we've seen LOTS of guys do well there (Locke, Hamel) to name a few. It doesn't mean anything. Can his game translate at a higher level...?
MZ has had a big set back I would think with Djurgardens.... I think a good half to full season in the AHL would go a long way in helping him with periodic call ups for reward. I still think the Sens made a mistake not taking Couturier or even moving up a spot to grab Strome, but its too late now. I see MZ being a great 3rd liner who can jump into the 2nd line role if need be from time to time.
Im not sure where I would rank the prospects after Silfverburg, but the key word is 'after'.
VOTE SPEAZZA VOTE SPEZZA VOTE SPEZZA!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
I think we actually agree. You said yourself "with a bit of time". That's what I think puts Silf a bit down the list of "NHL ready TODAY".
I totally agree that he's our number one prospect (though I think Noesen is a close second) LONG TERM. And after 20 games this season Silfverberg could and should be ahead of guys who've played more NHL games or games on the smaller surface already (like the others on the list).
I just say that TODAY he needs some time in Bingo to make that adjustment and then he's fully ready. Now, he could make that adjustment in the NHL - plenty have - but if I were thinking 100% about how to develop him best (and not roster spots, the team in general, contracts etc) I would have him play a least a month or two in the AHL.
Ouch, way too much, but thats the price nowadays.
all for naught I am sure anyway..demo for nhl13 comes out today..gotta get that from the ps store and give it a go..see if its worth the dough for it...heard nhl12 had a few issues..especia lly with the HUT
They sign guys like parise, Weber, shutter to huge numbers right before they demand a salary rollback.
The players who signed these contracts must be furious. À 100 mil contract with a 24% rollback equals a 76mil contract. No wonder the owners who were claiming financially distress were so quick to offer huge amounts of money. They knew from the start what the negotiations would bring.
To me its extremely shady. I'm sure the players expected to lose SOME money, but a quarter of their salary is ridiculous
Now these guys are tied down for 10+ years to contracts that they never would have signed in the first place.
I've been saying it for a long time. Players who want huge contracts are idiots. Teams that give them are starting to look like geniuses
It's a negotiation - owners cannot dictate terms of the new deal on their own.
I would assume that if the players agree to some sort of rollback they'll do so on the condition that players have the option to get out of deals signed this summer (or some such thing).
GMs and owners can't be expected to run their business now with any expectations about the new deal. If it takes $100M to sign guys like Suter and Parise this summer, that's what it takes. I don't think they signed them with the expectation that they'll get to reduce that number and keep the contract.
I'm sure the players along with their agents and lawyers have talked to the union about this.
Probably why there will be a lockout and if it happens for an extended period of time because the NHL once again insists on a salary rollback similar to the same 24%, I could really see the players getting together and filling a pretty hefty lawsuit against the owners for this exact reason.
For this reason among many others I just don't see the players backing down this time around.
Also to people who say Fehr ruined baseball...
He most certainly did not. Maybe in Canada he did but realistically when looking at the league as a whole, that probably helped the league. Canadian baseball team revenues even at their peak were nothing compared to even small market American teams. That was the least of the league's and the PA's concern. If anything made them happy to see Montreal leave.
The leagues revenues are ridiculously high. Even a team that couldn't sell tickets for the past few years sold for $2billion. His point about revenue sharing makes complete sense. The fact the Yankees spend so much money helps all the poor teams stay a float.
Don't get me wrong, I think the NHL needs a salary cap but if you incorporate a revenue sharing platform within that, it could only do good things for the league as a whole. The problem with that is the powerful and rich teams are obviously seriously opposed to that. And they all have the most pull when it comes to whispering in Bettman's ear about making a final call. So clearly they were going to reject the first proposal. But I think eventually the rich teams will have to come to their senses and agree to some sort of revenue sharing.
If you're serious, you are extremely Naive.
This NHL deal didn't just materialize 2 weeks ago. The owners have known what they would be asking for for close to a year now. Possibly even longer
I would sure as hell be more willing to spend 100mil if I knew that I would be getting 24% back before I paid out a single dollar
The owners knew their demands before July 1st. Every signing made this summer should be vetoed, but it wont be.
your assumption that players will be able to get out of contracts is laughable
I personally think he's ready. I watched over a dozen SEL games as well as the Worlds and obviously the NHL playoffs. He's a great player however I deffinetly don't think he'll eat of the NHL as many people here are constantly saying.
I think he'll start in the bigs (if there's a season of course) and then be sent down to the minors to learn some things and gain confidence similar to Karlsson in his rookie season. I expect him to be good but not great. Maybe 10 to 15 goals.
If you look at his career stats, he seems to go on these 3 year adjustment phases in ever league. He starts out solid but not producing many points probably due to many reasons but I'd say mostly for lack of ice time. His 2nd seasons are a slight step up and by his 3rd, he has his coming out parties whee he rips up the league which then warrants him a job at the next level of play.
I think a strike would probably work in his favor as he wouldn't have insane pressure from us Ottawa fans as well as all the Swedish media. Remember when he came to play for us in the playoffs? Their media came all the way here to report on him because he's that big of a star over there. That's really tough to deal with when you're starting to play in the best league in the world and where he will be checked like he never even dreamed possible.
Even if he does star in the AHL I don't see him ripping it up. Not because of a lack of skill but because it's still a major adjustment.
I also think Zibanejad may not have as much offensive skill as Silfverberg but his natural physical abilities may help him succeed in NA style hockey faster. Not saying he'll be better in the long run but I think he will adjust much quicker.
Just like the NBA, that league couldn't care less about competitive balance. It's about money! So from that standpoint there can be no argument made that the league is in bad shape. Mostly becauseof Fehr
A union for Canadian Hockey League players has been in the works for 14 months and will soon go public, says a spokeswoman.
Sandra Slater, a consultant for the Canadian Hockey League Players Association (CHLPA), expects the group to go public within 10 days. The CHLPA aims to create better representation for junior hockey players regarding rights, education packages and compensation for their use in league branding as well as CHL and Hockey Canada events, particularly, the World Junior Hockey Championship.
“The CHL is big business. They make millions of dollars a year and these kids make it for them,” said Slater. “Hockey Canada is a big part of this as well.”
If a 60 per cent majority of players accept the union, Slater says the CHL will have no choice but to recognize it by law.
“We're hoping to have a good working relationship,” she said.
According to a statement, the CHLPA was officially formed Aug. 9 at a meeting in Montreal where players from all three CHL leagues – the OHL, QMJHL and WHL – adopted a constitution. A board of directors was elected and a bargaining committee struck.
Word of the CHLPA was first reported at www.thejuniorhockeynews.com. Slater admits it leaked before the CHLPA was prepared to go public so the group is keeping the identity of its member confidential until a formal launch.
Interesting. I can't see them really siding with the NHLPA or vice versa though. Their concerns would mostly be about player safety and other such things. Since they're amateurs they can't really have much of a say about the money and how it's divided or anything.
======================================================
Wanna bet? Unions are confrontational .. their demands unrealistic..
On top of that, the owners making these deals and then adding them to their argument as to why they need a reduction makes it even more ridiculous.
Like you're saying. NO WAY they made those deals without knowing or hoping the players would take another massive cut.
If that could be proven in court, could be a HUGE winfor the players.
And also if it does go to court, the players will argue that the leagues revenues have gone up EVERY single year since the last CBA was put in place. So why on earth would the have to take another pay cut.
What the players are offering is to help the poor teams instead of giving money back to every team even thoughthe majority of them don't need any more money at all.
I honestly think there is no way the players loose this one
Can't believe I have to explain this but...
I'm not for a minute saying the owners didn't know the basic outline of what they planned to propose but they certainly aren't going to assume they'll get their way.
So no, teams were not signing players to $100M contracts thinking "Teehee, it will only really cost us $76M."
And players will not have the right to sue after their union and the NHL agree on a new CBA.
I don't expect that every poster here has gone to law school or anything, but a little common sense wouldn't hurt here fellas.
Baseball has considerably higher revenue than hockey will ever have. Their stadiums are 3 or more times capacity than the NHL. MLB's TV revenue is more than 2x bigger than the NHL.
Sure MLB is making huge money now.. but were they under Fehr? I don't follow baseball as I hate it actually - so I really don't know what baseball was like during his days in the MLBPA.
But taking your union to 4 strikes is something the NHL should be concerned about.
Fehr will not give in. I don't agree with those that say they will be back by Jan 1st. Neither side will give. IF (big if) they continue talking after the lockout.. maybe.. if not... see you in 2014.
Not saying the CHL players aren't heavily interested in how things pan out for the NHLPA, but I just don't see a case where the CHL union would strike to support the NHLPA. What sort of leverage does the CHL have over the NHL? None. So why would the CHL players strike (and what legal grounds would they have) to support the NHLPA?
If there was an issue over player safety in the CHL or something they might want to strike (doubtful but possible) and I suppose the NHLPA might support them publicly, but they'd never strike themselves in support either.
Sorry, maybe there's a scenario I'm not thinking of but I just can't picture any realistic situation where one union would strike for no other reason than to support the other.
Hax I'm saying they would sue if this lockout drags out because the owners simply don't back down because they insist on this salary cut.
And I do have a Law degree thank you very much
So you're saying the owners signed deals "knowing" that the players would have to take a massive cut and that players can sue on that basis? I know the NHLPA can take legal action if the owners are found not to be negotiating in good faith (i.e. holding out on any deal just to prolong the lockout) but I don't think the players can sue owners after a new deal is signed.
If the players union agrees to a cut in salaries in the new CBA without getting some sort of "out" clause on recently signed deals, how can Parise (for example) sue the Wild? What grounds? Would he be suing to get that 24% back that his union agreed to or would he be suing to get out of the contract he signed in good faith?
They are stating the CHL makes 'tonnes of money'. Will the young players try to get more of that? Will they plan their lockout/strike at some point in the future to coincide with an NHL work stoppage? Not IN SUPPORT of the NHLPA.. just to put the screws to the Leagues by screwing with the fans...
Yeah but CHL players are not "paid" in so much as they are compensated for the costs of playing (equipment, travel, living expenses etc) right? So I can't see any real legal battles over money. I suppose it's possible but the players would have to prove their costs are rising - I don't think it can be tied to league revenue.
However...
If the league will under no circumstance agree to a new CBA unless the players take a 24% (or there a bouts) pay cut, the players may have a case that illustrates that when owners were bargaining with players individually on new contracts, they knew they would be paying nowhere near what they actually agreed to. It would be tough to prove but I have no doubt it can be.
The whole idea behind CBA's is that both sides should give a little to come to an agreement. If the league inists on such a massive pay cut even though the league as a whole is profiting more than ever and growing at a faster rate then ever before, it just becomes hard to justify this. Especially if this were to get to court.
The PA's proposal included a player salary cut. Obviously not as hefty as what the owners want but they are looking at it from a standpoint where if they take a cut they believe the rich teams shouldn't get any of this money and in fact should also give a little bit to the poor teams.
This to me at least, seams much more reasonable then the players and players only taking a cut and every team, even ones who profited more than even get more money even though they don't need it at all.
Players filled a law suit during the negotiations because they believed the owners were not negotiating in good faith since they were insisting on a number of factors and simply wouldn't back down.
So the players sued them on the basis that they are loosing a years worth of salary even though their side was actively trying to make a deal.
This ended up scaring the owners since they clearly had a case. That's when they ended up coming to an agreement on a new CBA. I see similar things happening this time around simply because the owners demands are just way out there.
Okay I thought you were saying they could sue after a new deal was agreed to.
I still think the basis for any legal action though would simply be that the NHL was not negotiating in good faith and that the currently signed contracts themselves would only serve as minor examples.
i.e. The NHLPA would claim that NHL has not compromised on salary rollbacks even though the league is clearly making a profit and rollbacks needn't be so massive. You might know better than I, but I can't see it making a significant difference in any legal action if they try to claim the Parise contract (and others) were only signed in anticipation of a rollback - though I suppose there could be something discovered where the Wild internally mentioned that the NHL is going to 'force' rollbacks when debating how much to offer.
That's why I just don't see the PA backing dowm. Nothing to do with Fehr being stubborn like some people say.
Just that the players have absolutely no reason to take such cuts when the league is profitable and moreover the large majority ofthe teams are profitable. They just don't have a case where as during the last lockout the league was not nearly as profitable so the players eventually gave in.
This time the players are saying why should we take yet another cut when it did nothing last time interns of helping the poor teams. Because really that's the only problem. Either move the teams to bigger markets or incorporate some type of profit sharing.
Really I think it's a battle between owners this time around
There's a huge difference between a GM/owner knowing they plan to try and negotiate a rollback and signing a deal they can't afford without considering the possibility that the rollback won't be that deep.
I totally agree that owners knew the plan well before July 1st but no owner is stupid enough to blindly assume they'll get the 24%.
There's no way contracts would be vetoed. It's completely legal for Bettman to have informed the owners that he's going to propose a 24% rollback and it's also completely legal (though pretty foolish) for owners to base their budget on a deal that hasn't been agreed to. What's your basis for veto?
If the union does end up agreeing to some significant rollback I would assume they'd want to also put something in the new CBA to allow for exceptions or some other compensation for recently signed deals. Unless they give that up in negotiations.
For example if they end up having to choose between an 18% rollback but some recourse for Parise et al or a 15% rollback that applies to every player including deals signed recently - they might choose the 15% and tell Parise "too bad".
Yeah the players were the ones to give up the most last time so I doubt they'll do the same this time around, nor should they.
This will turn into the "rich" owners versus the "poor" owners. I'd like to think that with Bettman so vested in Phoenix working that the "poor" owners will win out for the most part (i.e. some of the elements of the NHLPA's proposed deal).
Could get ugly though.
Nail on the head with that one. This is exactly how I feel. I don't understand how the owners are being so stubborn. The players salaries and the league revenues are relative are they not? AND the players took a paycut last time. This time the PLAYERS are not asking for more pay (relatively) AND they even offered a paycut (albeit a small one, but a paycut nonetheless).
So basically the owners wanted a paycut last CBA negotiations because the league was struggling, now the league is thriving and they still want another paycut? No. Not cool. Get the deal done or else they're just going to lose money, and isn't that the bottom line for them anyways? Making money and not losing it? GEEZ
I don't like the sounds of the CHL unionizing. Honestly, players are injuring each other, the CHL has been pretty progressive when it comes to player safety. What is this union going to accomplish.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL and NHLPA were funding this "movement" so the CHLPA can go on strike and completely rob Canadians of our national game.
That's what I was trying to convey before. Stopping fans from watching hockey altogether.. That would be dirty pool but it's a Union.. so I wouldn't put it past them to do that. I just don't trust Unions. Never have.
Just heard on the Team 1200 -- they read the following tweet:
Georges Laraque @GeorgesLaraqu e
Today I'm proud to have been named the executive director of the new players association of the Canadian hockey league
I am curious where the funding is coming from. Likely ex CHL player donations or something?
SPL
Saw the Predators signed Scott Hannan to a one year deal at 1M. I'm surprised he went as long as he did before signing. Honestly, Hannan would have been a good fit in Ottawa in a bottom 6, even 7th man role with his defensive abilities, especially at a one year.
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