Before I begin, a disclaimer of sorts. This post is made up of a combination of speculation, rumours and fact. I have tried to differentiate which is which but it should give you an idea why I posted about Rick Nash so frequently this summer.
The Sens interest in Nash began in the weeks leading up to the Draft.
Murray let it be known he was looking to add a top six forward and Nash obviously fit the bill. Ottawa had actually shown some preliminary interest in Nash at last year’s trade deadline but the price was far too high.
Just how serious negotiations got with the Scott Howson and the Jackets seemed to vary depending on who was reporting. The fact that the Sens were so serious in their pursuit seemed to catch most experts off guard, particularly because they were not one of the teams on Nash’s preferred destination list.
But based on what I heard, a deal between Columbus and Ottawa was extremely close. In fact, there were some contacts suggesting that the framework of a deal between the two sides was 100% done. The names involved never really surfaced but it was believed to include some combination of Zibanejad, Lehner and Foligno. So while other media outlets continued to suggest that the Senators weren’t serious players, I maintained that there was a very real interest.
The Sens obviously wanted Nash, but did Nash want Ottawa?
Again, the answer to that question varies depending on who you talk to. One thing we know for certain is that the Sens were not on his initial list. But as the saga dragged on, there was a sense that Nash was at least willing to consider additional teams. And for the Senators to be as involved as they were, you would assume they had some indication Nash would at least consider a move to the Nation’s Capital.
The Sens brass were adamant about not wanting to “convince” a player to play here but there may have been some of that going on. I had people telling me that the likes of Jason Spezza, Erik Karlsson and Daniel Alfredsson had been asked to speak with Nash to sell him on Ottawa. There were also rumours that Nash was never really the one that needed convincing and that it was his wife that was unsure about a move to Ottawa.
Understandably, it looked like Nash was waiting for one of the teams on his preferred destination list to step up and make an offer Howson couldn’t refuse.
By the time July 1 rolled around the Senators organization decided they had grown tired of waiting. They dealt Nick Foligno for Marc Methot, players that I assume were discussed in the larger Nash deal and began moving forward. But even after the secondary deal with Columbus was complete, the door was never really completely closed on Rick Nash.
With the framework in place, the belief is a deal would have been completed quite quickly with the go ahead from the Nash Camp.
Obviously all this is irrelevant as Glen Sather stepped up his offer and Nash is now a member of the New York Rangers.
The fact that the Senators were so heavily involved with the Rick Nash Saga leads me to believe they must have other “irons in the fire” on the top six forward front but everything seems quiet right now.
Ok new topic...
There are currently 11 teams not meeting the Salary cap floor of $54.2M
Plus, if you look, every team already have 22 or more players signed….
Can you say Gomez to NAS or PHX….Gomez is likely to move because his cap hit is $7.8M, but his salary for the last 2 years is 5M and 4M, perfect for a team looking to reach the flooring with a high cap hit, without spending all the money…
FLA
$53.537 - 25 Players
CLB
$52.980 - 25 Players
STL
$52.850 - 23 Players
WPG
$51.265 - 25 Players
OTT
$51.233 - 22 Players
DAL
$50.676 - 24 Players
CAR
$50.545 - 24 Players
NYI
$46.597 - 27 Players
PHX
$43.991 - 24 Players
NAS
$43.069 - 24 Players
This cleary shows many more deals to come:
23-man Roster
There may be a maximum of 23 players on each Club's playing roster at any one time from the commencement of the NHL regular season through the trade deadline. Prior to the start of the season, each Club must submit to the NHL its "Opening Day Playing Roster" which shall be comprised of not more than 23 players. Each Club must have a roster of at least 20 players, composed of 18 skaters and two goaltenders. Players on Injured Reserve do not count in the 23-man limit.
Discuss :)
Well for one, Nash played his whole career for CBJ, and seeing as they went through 2 rebuilds with him and completely screwed it up, I think he was more than derserving to ask for a trade.
2. Howson is the one that made it public, not Nash.
3. Howson gave him a NTC, Nash did what was asked of him and provided a 6 team list, more than enough to trade him.
4. Howson held out on much better offers than what he ended up getting cuz he wanted insanely high value for Nash.
5. Nash didnt deny any impending trade, OTT wasnt on the list.
6. Nash wasnt holding out...
And I can go on..
There are differences but it's still in the Heatley ballpark.
Ask Volchenkov how that's working out for him. If not for Mrs V A-train might still be in Ottawa.
So you're point is that on July 24th we're not seeing the opening day rosters on all NHL teams? Wow - that's newsworthy.
I'll be booing Nash at SBP this year, no doubt! Heatley 2.0!
Really though, to say there are no similarities whatsoever between the Dany and Nash situations is being a bit naive.
I agree to disagree, for sure in the "same ballpark" as Hax has pointed out.
I just really think they have to do something with the CBA where if a player "requests" a trade, it then vitos their "NTC".
It just doesn't seem fair that in the Dany and Nash situations, the players seem to hold all the cards, so to speak.
true..but I wouldn't cross a russian woman..her dad could be KGB or russian mafia or something..seri ously though, I am sure ottawa is not that bad of a city when it comes to shopping..and is no where near as cold as say Edmonton, so not sure what the shun is on the city, maybe not as cultured as NY..but NJ is definitely not either.
She wanted the (very slightly) higher offer. Then, once the contract was signed realized that there might be other things to consider such as property taxes, real estate costs, the unwillingness of the US govt to help bring Russian relatives over compared to the Canadian govt, the differences between NHL organizations and the level of effort they might go to in helping player's families etc, etc.
trade gonchar and a 3rd to Nashville for one of Philly 1sts
Then trade that 1st, a 2nd, MZ, and puempel to Anaheim for Ryan and a 3rd
Then sign semin to reach the cap floor
...But they probably won't
I've seen this complaint a lot on message boards. I don't get how people don't understand the legal concepts involved.
Players are not submitting a written document saying they want a trade. They're just making it known to the team that they're unhappy and not-so-subtly hinting that they're not going to be the most motivated player etc. That won't void a contract or clause therein - the only thing that would is if they don't report to camp or something else they're legally bound to do in the contract.
If GMs really wanted to play hardball they can force a player to play out their contract or stay home and open the door for legal action (i.e. voiding the NTC).
I get that it's a douche move, but it's completely legal.
Hahaha and you say what I post was bad...give me a break
The fact that the East is looking like it might be scary good this season might help the rebuild. Last year we saw lots of fans pushing for non-rebuild moves given our surprising success. As it was, we held onto Kuba and other pending UFAs that we could have moved for picks. I still think the playoff experience was worth it - for the team and the fans - but I wouldn't want to repeat that if we're near 8th again.
I think we really have to look to move Gonchar at the deadline this year. We should also be considering moving any other pending UFAs or guys that other teams may want to give us picks/prospects for.
With the East looking really strong I think that will help make it easier on fans to accept these type of moves and easier on the org to resist the urge to keep some guys for a playoff run we really should be moving.
I understand that legally, there is no way for them to "request" a trade. It just seems like this issue won't die.
The GM's have to stop handing out NTC. I feel like the NTC is almost given to every player these days, and it's not "earned".
What happen to the days of a NTC being a pretty rare case?!
With all due respect to the Big Rig, HE even has one, and it's the 2nd of his career!!
All in all there has to be a change. Because the player is essentially making a list as Nash did with 5 or 6 of the same teams every time...(Philly/Boston/SJ/Toronto/NY/Pittsburgh)
So everytime the GM is handcuffed. I agree that it's the GM giving out the NTC to begin with, but you think Nash is signing that original contract with CLB if their ISN'T a NTC?? No way.
But you're right, they can't "legally" request a trade...so therefore I propose a player can only be "eligible" for a NTC after playing a certain number of years in the league or something to that degree.
There's a hole in this area and they desperately need to fix it.
Maybe Canucnik can ask Murray when he's over for dinner tonight.
It is a bit embarrassing for the league though. I can't even count the number of times I've seen some journalist mention that only Kobe has one in the NBA.
I like the general concept that first lead to NTC - i.e. "If you sign this deal with us we promise not to turn around and trade you." but it is getting a bit out of control.
Some GM somewhere needs to come up with a better way to make players feel protected from being treated like cattle.
I hereby give you a break from scrutiny for 1 week on account of my hilariously satirical but slightly hypocrital post
But honestly though, you wouldn't do those moves? I might be OK with them
One day.
DARE TO DREAM!!!!
Where are you getting your stats? I'm looking at capgeek and your numbers don't align.
For example, you state:
NAS
you: $43.069 - 24 Players
Capgeek: $43.854 - 19 Players
NYI:
You: $46.597 - 27 Players
Capgeek: $47.772 - 19 Players
In fact, everyone of your player counts is different than capgeek.
Discuss that!
It sounds like you want the Sens to tank again for the sake of the rebuild? I'm not sure that is necessary.
Steve Lloyd @Steve_Lloyd
Earliest #Sens could waive a player for a buyout is Thursday. Doesn't mean they certainly will, but Daugavins settlement gives the option.
I had seen others claim that we're not eligible since we only had one player file for arbitration (and apparently you need to have two file to be able to buy out anyone)?
Can anyone state with sources what the CBA actually says? I still don't think we'd be buying anyone out, but I suppose saving $700k on Butler might be something Melnyk tells Murray to do.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I would never support any kind of tanking. I just don't think there's value in passing on some picks/prospects to finish 8th again. Last season I saw the value in that I don't think we could have gotten anything major for Kuba et al and getting some of our younger guys a round of playoffs was right in line with the "building a winning atmosphere" that MacLean was preaching. Not to mention it was great for the fans to get some excitement without halting the rebuild.
But I don't think we need to do that again this season if we're in 8th-11th near the deadline.
Long story short, I wouldnt hesitate on giving Semin a contract to reach the floor, plus I will keep Gonchar around since he had a great positive influence on Malkin and could do the same.
While I'm not against Semin in general (assuming Murray likes him) we don't need to sign him to make the floor.
It's sad to say, but Murray just hasn't been able to convince a player in his prime and with all the "hire local boys" going on I think it's probably a serious problem he's been dealing with for years.
Not that I blame the UFAs, it's hard to appreciate Ottawa as a casual visitor, but it surprises me a Canadian boy like Nash wouldn't have wanted us as a destination or that Howson wouldn't work harder in convincing him to accept our deal. But I guess when you don't have a scouting staff, you depend a bit more on online rankings.
I never said there wasnt any similarities, I said its not the SAME as the Heatley fisaco and it aint. Clearly Nash wasnt holding out, he said he would have reported to camp. He's been a good soldier for 8-9 years with CBJ while enduring 2 botched rebuilds. Nash isnt an asshole because he didnt come to Ottawa, scorned fans much.
The NTC was agreed upon by both parties and Nash did provide Howson with 6 teams as the claus stipulates. Its not Nash' fault Howson is a complete tool. Its not the first time Howson has botched a rebuilding opportunity.
Nash deserved to get out of there unlike Heatley.
Yes
but in the overall scheme of things its a much different situation
Nash wasn't happy and from all things being reported, him being moved was mutual from both him and Howsen
At that point, Nash is fully entitled to use his NTC. I think everyone can understand why he doesn't want to be a part of a 3rd rebuild
As for Heatley, he went to cup final with us, back to back 50 goal 100pt seasons, was a top 10 player in the league, and because he dind't like the coach he wanted out
Caught us all off guard, basically gave up on a team that resurrected his career. Gave up on teammates that had accomplished so much together
Then used his NTC to basically demand a trade to 1 team
Then had a team beg him (EDM) to reconsider and he said no
Similarities are there for sure (NTC/Short List/ Veto) but the situations and context are completely different
The only thing that surprised me was no goalie in the trade. It was speculated that CBJ was after a goalie to replace Mason, so what happened? To me, that is where this trade is the weakest, cause all rumors had us offering one. If that's true, they obviously wanted one but just couldn't land that with the Rangers, so it's almost proof that Nash kept Columbus from getting what they wanted/needed.
Didn't the goalie talk end when they signed Bob?
You gotta admit he was right about that.
Dont use capgeek bro, its not a very good place to get info.
Use NHLnumbers.com
Right, but look at Spezza now? Stuck with it, and finished 6th in Hart voting
Heatley was where?
Every team hires coaches that were mistakes, its your character that allows you to push through
If Heatley was in a contract year or approaching a contract year and felt his Playing time was being decreased, ok I get it, but he was locked in for 7 more years
Patience buddy, patience
Thank you, somebody with a brain!
Your right, all the NHL insiders use capgeek, they all communicate with capgeek twitter, and they all use capgeek for their caproom info
NHLNumbers.com is the best one
What 27 players do you see signed already for NYI on NHLNumbers? I count 18 there actually. Or are you including all the minor league and inactive contracts? Yashin's buyout too maybe?
Yikes man.
Looking at that site, they say NYI has 27 players under contract, yet on the NYI page (http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/NYI?year=2013) they only list 25 - and that INCLUDES Yashin.
Not inspiring a lot of confidence... but since you say its the best, BRO, I'll believe you...
The 27 has to include two-way contracts or something. Look at the actual team page on their site where it's broken down.
We'll be seeing him often for the first time in his career playing in the east. We'll see how the faithful at SBP receive him as.
Spezza > Richards
Glad he's not a SEN.
Let our young guys play!
Yeah I guess so, still not a strong aquistion. But may be better than Mason right now.
Yashin is still listed with the Islanders, simply because he had signed a long term contract, and is still getting paid in his buyout !!
LMAO fuck I dont know, I posted the table that showed up under TEAMS, not actually looking on each teams page.
Thats site is garbage HAHA! I wrote the guy an email asking him to explain his players signed?
You would be shitting your pants if Nash was a Senator, now your gonna watch him torch us with the Rangers.
True NHL Numbers does list the number of players signed you indicated above, but when you actually look at the teams and the players signed. It doesn't add up. NYI for example, under the teams section indicates 27 players signed, but when you look at the roster, there's only 18 signed for the 2012-2013 season. 19 if you include the Yashin buyout.
Just got told by 1 NHL Exec it looks like Preds will match Weber offer sheet. "Unless,Flyers are prepared to make a great trade"#doubtful
Tookie,
You are by far the weirdest Sens fan ever.
I will always be convinced you are Brian Burke.
I actually agree with tookie on this one.
I don't understand why TSN and so many other insiders quote capgeek. Nhlnumbers is much much better.
He's definitely a strange one. However you know nothing about hockey if you are saying Nash's situation is just like Heatley's and/or that you're glad he's not on our team. This guy is one of only about 10 guys in the league that you can truly use the word "elite" to describe them.
I am terrified to play the rangers now. They will still be amazing defensively but now will actually be able to score on all these turnovers that they create.
Lehner and Zibanejad could full well be worth the price of admission by the time NYR decides they want to buy out Nash's contract.
All you have to do is watch this to see how useless to the team Nash would be when he isn't scoring goals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvaCOVoP-Xk
That's speculative at best. Do you know his wife?
I'm pretty sure the decision was as simple as money and term. NJ had the more lucrative offer. No wife has that much pull. Unless you're Kobe's wife after his escapades..
Youre a funny guy.
No way NY will even think of buying him out. Even if he hits career lows in points. His bad years he's getting 30 goals. And that's with absolute garbage players around him.
Nash-Richards-G aborik line will be very comparable, especially under Torts
Well it's not actually but it is a second-hand account I got from someone very close to the org whom I trust. Not saying it's 100% verified so take it for what it's worth.
http://healthyscratches.blogspot.ca/2012/07/explaining-why-senators-have-buy-out.html
interesting yes....happenin g..I think we all know..not at all..Benn is huge for the Stars Franchise and they would match anything without hesitation.
We're in no position to offer-sheet anyone really. Unless Murray has a few deals all but done to clear roster spots.
I have essentially heard this from the donkeys mouth.
I wouldn't necessarily believe anyone else who said it so don't expect anyone else too..
Although it has been in the media as the reason too
I don't see the connection. Volchenkov signed with NJ in 2010. (Murray was GM). Hossa sign-and-trade was in 2005 and was a Muckler maneuver. He held a grudge for 5 years and carried it over to Murray who was also his coach for many years?
Doesn't add up for me.
(Not questioning your source or anything - just seems odd.)
I didn't have coffee this morning and my god is it showing!
That's the third thing essentially this stupid i have done in an hour(time to go get a coffee)
Uhhhh wow
It's funny. Since the Hossa-Chara thing might have gone differently if we had given Chara a NTC. Basically prevents the sign-and-trade.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9706
WHY DO NHL PLAYERS BOTHER GETTING MARRIED BEFORE THEY RETIRE?
Most of them are out of hockey by 32-35 at the latest, still plenty of time. It's apparent that more times than not, a players wife is guiding his career.
These are young guys with oodles of money to burn and no shortage of ass being thrown at them on every single road trip.
Someone, please stop the insanity...
Yeah but if they time it right their kids are out of diapers and actually fun to be around by the time they retire.
There's always that wild card when love's involved.
As for Philly & NY -- one player does not a team make unless that one player is in net.. which the Rangers have --it is still a 'team game'. I'm not downplaying either Weber or Nash.. but they have to fit into the team style.. and not always does that work..
IMO only -- I think the overall best forward on the Rangers is Callahan. I would take him on the Sens over either Richards or Nash. I just like the way he plays.. and how it is about the crest on the front and not the name on the back.
That division with Rangers, Pitts & Philly.. will be extremely interesting to watch. Rangers & Philly (maybe) ungraded... while the Pens are down one really good centre in Staal.. plus trading of Michalek.. One of those 3 will finish first in the East.. and I give that to Henrik Lundqvist and the Rangers -- but not necessarily because of Nash.
Predators match Shea Weber offer sheet. http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=638547
Nice to see a small market team refuse to be bullied not only by large market teams but "large market" players as well
Agreed but hopefully it doesn't mean the team is bankrupt in 2 years.
If this is indeed true.. then I'm happy that Philly lost out.
I'm sick and tired of these big market, rich teams bullying the smaller markets because they can.
In the few years after the last CBA that introduced the salary cap.. there was paridy in the league.. competitive throughout most of the teams with any team winning on any given night. The game was fun to watch..
But since the cap has gone up to 70M -- it's back to where it was pre-2004 -- in which we lost a full season. The rich 'have teams' then the rest of them.
The NHL has to have a fixed salary cap of 65M as the high and 45M as the low. If the league revenues are over 65M -- they have some way to share that with the players.. so that each one gets an even share. That is the only fair way to run the NHL and to stop these few idiotic owners/GMs.
The way that Philly constructed that contract was to stop Nashville from matching... but they didn't work apparently.
Karma's a bitch Mr. Holmgren...
My further assumption is that they still try and work out a trade and that Weber has played his last game as a Predator.
It was early days in "that particuler" new players contract, Bryan Murray was trying to be all warm and fuzzy with #15 and #19 offering both no move/no trade contracts with big early bonuses, Bryan was just trying to be hospitable and Eugene was rollin' in the cash...I think the whole league learned a lesson with Heatley. Oh and I was "up the line" at Great Gamma's farm for lunch just the other day.
If they matched.. they can't trade him for a calender year.
So the Flyers lost Carle.. I guess Pronger is still really bad with post-concussion systems (I guess Karma bit him as well) and now no Weber.
They also lost out on Nash.. so I guess they now go full bore for Doan or trade for Ryan.
Nashville wanted some good player or players from Flyers.. they probably wanted to give them so-so players and get Weber for basically nothing... didn't work out..
From what I know of the CBA they cannot trade Weber for one full calendar year after they match an offer sheet.
Philly, Rangers, Boston & Pitts were better than the Sens last season.. so what is the difference. As for the rest.. you can only predict who finishes where.
Preds also signed Wilson to 3 years, good move as well.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
When a team matches an offer sheet they cannot trade that player for one full year. There was also a rumor that the offer sheet had a NTC that started in year 2 but I don't see any mention of that today. So I guess they could move him next summer but after paying out so much in the next 11 months it would be silly IMO. Whoever gets him then is getting a guy for even less than his decent cap hit.
Weber basically tried to pull a "nash" or "heatley" and dictate where they go based on personal preference even though their rights belong to another team.
I get offer sheets are legal, but the way this OS was laid out (up front money, bonusses, long termd eal) basically was Weber way of forcing nashville to not afford him, and thats what bugs me
So finally a team has the ability to "fuck off" to its player, something Ottawa(see Heatley) and Columbus (see nash) couldn't do
I think we have a better goalie then both Washington and Tampa, Anderson is a guy who can win us games and he's proved that. Lindback and Holtby are still figuring things out and will both be playing as a starter for the first time. That IMO gives us a slight edge over them, the rest, who knows.
1. Howson terrible GM, easily the worst in the NHL by far.
2. Nash your a sell-out.
3. Damn I hate the Rangers even more now.
$7,857,142.86
$7,384,615.38 94% of cap hit
$6,833,333.33 87%
$6,181,818.18 79%
$5,400,000.00 69%
$4,666,666.67 59%
$3,750,000.00 48%
$3,428,571.43 44%
$3,000,000.00 38%
$2,400,000.00 31%
$1,500,000.00 19%
$1,000,000.00 13%
$1,000,000.00 13%
$1,000,000.00 13%
So after two years you're paying the player $1M less per year average than his cap hit, by year 6 you're only paying him 69% of his cap hit.
No way they can afford to trade him if he's still a decent player.
Really? That's interesting and I presume that as the contract was signed before the CBA expired then that can't change even if the CBA does?
Presumably the calendar year doesn't differentiate between playing or lock out.
25 minutes ago.
I think we have a better goalie then both Washington and Tampa, Anderson is a guy who can win us games and he's proved that. Lindback and Holtby are still figuring things out and will both be playing as a starter for the first time. That IMO gives us a slight edge over them, the rest, who knows.
Who said that Philly is still better than us? Not with Bryzgalov as their goalie. In fact I think their team got weaker this off-season in unloading, JVR and Jagr. There defence is so so without Pronger. I would take Anderson over Bryzgalov any day of the week.
The new CBA could allow for retroactive changes (as the current one did) so it's not 100% locked down. But they certainly cannot trade Weber under the current CBA and I would highly doubt the new one will allow them to suddenly trade him - but you never know.
Of course, they paid him $13M today - so I doubt they trade him even if they could legally since they're not (as far as I know) allowed to make the team they trade him to pay back the $13M.
How do you figure that? Losing Suter is a big hole of course but unless they hold some sort of fire sale to get to the cap floor they're still in good shape.
The Weber contract is actually decent cap-wise and while the dollars are tough to swallow for a small market team (especially the first few years) once they get over that hump they're sitting pretty.
Look at the structure of the deal - there's no way they pay Weber $14M for this season then trade him.
Holmgren did get good players back for Carter and Richards, but they were both integral pieces of a Stanley cup winning team the season after they were moved by Holmgren.
Holmgren has since moved JvR for a player with a huge question mark against him (probably because of the poor handling he received from a shitty organisation). That move was made because Philly had a terrible blueline and goalie in the playoffs last year and they were helped by the fact that their opponents just out-sucked them in that regard.
In this off season they are now facing up to the reality that two of their best blueliners (Pronger and Carle) will never play for the organisation again and he rolled all his dice on Weber and that has just blown up in his face.
So what would you rather have, a spectacular GM who either makes great moves or terrible ones or a more steady GM who understands the long term and works towards it methodically but isn't shy of trying to make a move when the chance is there?
Even if he wants out it would be tough. I think they owe him the $13M on next July 1st as well (haven't seen all the details yet) which would mean they'd have paid him $27M for one season before they're allowed to trade him by CBA rules.
it's pretty funny how you feel the need to critique every single comment
But thats only $55 million of his $110 million, the rest is all bonusses mostly paid within first 3 years.
So your right in that they can't afford to trade him when his actual salary is lower than cap hit, but your making it seem like 6 years is peanuts haha
screwed if they do, screwed if they dont
I feel an overwhelming urge to critique this comment.
I think this contract handcuffs them way too much. The last 2 years they've slightly over performed (even by Trotz standards) by having such a great top 2 dmen and a top end goalie. They spent picks and such just to try and prove to Suter and Weber they were contenders the last couple years. Now they've also lost Radulov (again) and I really don't see much top end coming through their system to make up for it.
By the time they'll be getting over the initial few bonus payments in this contract they'll be back to an afterthought as a team and organization. I won't be surprised if they miss the playoffs 8-10 of the next 14 years. Just my opinion.
I get that they couldn't let him walk without matching or getting something better back, but they really should've worked out a better trade, if not with Philly, then well before it ever got to this point.
That's not the real dollars - that's the average remaining dollars and how it goes down each year (so that's why the total is exactly half the real dollars).
Basically the contract gets more and more of a bargain every season to the point where trading him away would be crazy. Doesn't mean they're not desperate at some point but I think by matching they've pretty much committed to keeping him the entire contract (unless he suddenly can't play for shit).
Okay, but his cap hit only went up by about $350k from last year. So they're not really handcuffed any more than they were last season. It's a big contract no doubt but most teams have at least one or two really big contracts to work around.
True they're down some picks and prospects but I think they can recover from that without too much trouble. Not saying they're a powerhouse, but most teams in the NHL would take Weber on that contract if they could.
I doubt the owner is going to say I know I told you you could spend 60M this year on contracts for the hockey team, but that doesn't include the other 13mil bonus you now owe Weber. Who knows, maybe they won't blink, but I think long term we'll see this as the beginning of the end for them as they'll probably have to cut financial corners everywhere else.
I would take that cap hit, but not how front loaded it is.
Absolutely one of the most intelligent posts ever put up on this site... WHY??? there is nothing to gain but having to explain all the lipstick on your dress shirts. Wait till the career is over Sow all the wild oats you want without having to listen to one hag over, what city has better shopping so she can spend your money!!!
Brilliant Andrew
Boyle has a large contract doesn't he, 6+ I think? Something most teams aren't interested in. And honestly, he was one of the more offensive D-men in the League 2 or 3 years ago, still gets good numbers but in Ottawa he'd be 2nd fiddle to EK. We can't bring him in expecting the world (see Gonchar) at this stage of his career. Let him finish it out in SJ.
Why would they "probably lose him right after that"? He's under contract, why would they trade him?
Not sure where you are coming from on this...
Also, its 27 million in the first 11 months... not 2 years... check out capgeek.com
http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1042
They cant trade him for a year cuz of the claus in the matching offer, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna want out after that. Unless the dreaded NTC was added. Even then he'll ask to be traded to a list of 6 teams.
Was a bad move by Nashville, either way they were losing this fight.
Seriously though. You must average 50 comments a day and 49 of them are "you're wrong" to other people.
I just find it funny
I think we have a better goalie then both Washington and Tampa, Anderson is a guy who can win us games and he's proved that. Lindback and Holtby are still figuring things out and will both be playing as a starter for the first time. That IMO gives us a slight edge over them, the rest, who knows.
Who said that Philly is still better than us? Not with Bryzgalov as their goalie. In fact I think their team got weaker this off-season in unloading, JVR and Jagr. There defence is so so without Pronger. I would take Anderson over Bryzgalov any day of the week.
==========================================
Last year -- at least up front and depth on D they were better than the Sens. Their weak spot that was and still is Bryzgalov... Nice contract they signed there.
But Philly is in a pickle right now. On the forward position they are good, quite deep.. but on D.. with losing out on Weber.. Pronger still out and Carle gone will test their depth... especially playing in front of Bryzgalov.
Howson should have waited a week longer to deal Nash. He could have gotten more if the Rangers & Philly got into a bidding war.. I bet he's kicking his own ass today..
Or "source?"
Haha that one always cracks me up
They can't trade him. That's the beauty (or evil depending on the way you look at it) of the deal... they cant trade him one year after the contract is signed, and next year his NMC kicks in so he can choose his own fate.
Why are they going to miss out on the playoffs? They lost Suter? I think they can overcome that one.. And Suter will be the go to guy in Minny with no Weber to bail him out... or Rinne as far as that goes.
Perhaps if you didn't make 49 comments a day, he wouldn't have to reply to each saying you are wrong. :)
Weber gets paid $13million today, and another $14 million next July 1st for next season (1 year's earnings, not 2 years' total! )
Unbelievable !!!!!!!!!!
I highly doubt Doan goes to Montreal with his past comments on Quebecers, no chance in hell MTL or its fanbase forgives him for that. I doubt he even has a visit to MTL, wheres the link?
He has 2 possible landing spots, NYR and DET.
Because they're not a good team. They have about 2 second lines and now very little d beyond Weber. When Suter and Weber can play almost half the game it doesn't matter who's #3-6, but now your next best guy is going to have to step up and play with Weber.
Bottom line they overachieved last year, like they normally do cause Trotz is an amazing coach, and with the personnel changes made and the loss of a few good draft picks the last couple years they are now behind the 8 ball when most other teams have either been re-building through the draft or spending big on UFAs.
sounds like there is not a NMC in the Weber contract. unless you count that 27M...
What did he say about Quebeckers again?
They've hit 104, 99, 100 pts in the last 3 years, I think they are a contender. Especially with Trotz at the helm, losing Suter isnt as big a deal as it seems, Ellis can easlit replace Suter and have Klein, Blum, Gill & Josi to round out the D, not bad.
I dont think they will miss a beat.
Now thats not saying Weber wont want out in 2 years...Then they will be screwed.
Man - your responses make you sound like a complete tool... "I doubt he even has a visit to MTL, wheres the link?"
It's on the front page of www.tsn.ca
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401361
You're allowed your opinion, just don't expect me to worry about it considering your track record.
Most teams are improving while Nashville is not, it'll be reflected in the standings. If points history makes a team a contender in the future I must have really missed just about every class taught in school, from math to history to gym.
Please elaborate. Do you hate facts?
One player said he couldn't believe he was contemplating retirement, the way he was pushing himself.
Swedes inquiring about Stephane Da Costa to agent Wade Arnott have been told that the Frenchmen is expected to sign with the #Sens shortly.
from a swedish sens fan on twitter, give him a follow @steffeG
always posts about swedish/sens related info before any main news media releases it.
Robin Lehner montage pretty cool
Not at all. My point is that I'm sick of people like this Hax character constantly pinpointing people's mistakes or straight ridiculing their opinions.
It has gotten to the point where people are literally scared to make comments on here.
I'm sure we've all seen people's first comments where they start off by saying something along the lines of ... "I don't usually comment on here because I see people getting chirped all the time".
It's because of guys like Hax who sit all day on his self proclaimed "bad ass tablet with wifi" constantly hitting the refresh button until they see a comment which is slightly off base or against their views.
Chirp said he won't stand for people criticizing others for staying on the site too long..well I think dudes like him actually hurt the the conversation on here as people are clearly scared to post comments. Many of which probably have very interesting opinions.
If anyone is scared to post here because they fear having their opinion questioned or errors corrected they shouldn't be on the internet at all. It's a blog actually called "chirp" - you don't think it's meant to inspire lively debate?
If anyone is actually offended by anything I've ever posted or feels like I've been unfair AND actually says so I'm the first to guy to apologize when warranted.
I think the responses to your posts today from other regulars on this site indicate that maybe you're overstating my impact on people being "scared to comment".
That is why he is the Sens future.. not Bishop...
I do post a lot but even I have never replied to my own post.
And for what it's worth, why is it such a bad thing to ask if someone has a source for something they're stating? Isn't that a way of indicating that their contribution to the blog is appreciated and that more detail would also be appreciated?
Not sure why you have such a hate-on for me but whatever. Maybe Chirp will get us that "ignore" button we've all been hoping for and we'll both be happier.
Hell if people just post all whiley niley(like i was today when I mistook attains reason for leaving as Char as) and not have people call out errors etc why not just discuss made up fairy tales?
I'm personally surprised they matched the offer. I guess they were damned it they did and damned if they don't.
vote karlsson for the player of the year!!!!!!!!!
Make no mistake, their owners are more than capable of footing any bill they so desire.
Well they will not be "running lean" for the next few years,
while "footing the bill" to pay Shea Weber !!
Players with NTC or NMC can determine which team they want to be traded to just like UFAs can decide which team to sign with. GMs are really helpless & try to get the most they can by playing teams against each other. I would think it's in the GMs best interest not to release which teams the plyer wants to go to so that he can pretend who may be interested in his player. Heatley wanted to go to SJ, Weber wants to go to Philly and on and on.
It's too bad that top NHL players don't want to play in Ottawa but a lot of them don't seem to want to play in Canada because of the media scrutiny. I guess that is one of the reasons why Murray goes after so many home town boys because it seems they will come to Ottawa to play. We need to find a few more elite home town players to sign or trade for.
Players want to win NOW.
The biggest Reason has to be our tax system. Besides Alberta we pay much higher taxes than most sstates. If Florida was competitive all those years I imagine with the damn near tax free income laws, they would be the top free agent destination. My 2 cents
Have mentioned that part about Da Costa a couple times. Contract not far off.
As much as the stars are saying he's not going anywhere, I'd like to see Murray at least give it a shot. ALthough go about it in a better way than Philadelphia and make a quality trade for Benn once an offer sheet is signed. I can't see the stars turning down an offer of texas born prospect Noesen, Da Costa, Greening and 1st rounder for Benn. Then we'd have our first line LW for Spezza for a long time.
Yes I know I am dreaming. I need some Big Sens news to get me to training camp ! Keep up the good work Chirp !!
I would agree. There something to be said about proven vs unproven talent. And although I think Dallas will match any offer sheet, what the eff is taking so long to lock this guy up? Not surprised if an offer sheet is eventually thrown his way.
Hax vilified?!? Tookie sensible and respectful?!?
People getting restless during the summer months.
For God sake Murray, please make a trade so we can get back to normal...
There's a reason Semin hasn't been signed as of yet. If we're looking to try and make the playoffs, he helps us. If we're looking to win in the playoffs, he probably hurts us.
I think he's ideally suited to a team that is desparate to make the playoffs and show some progress. Maybe Columbus takes a gamble on him or the islanders.
He's one hell of a player without question, pretty crazy Washington just ended up walking away from him given what they could have traded him for just two years ago...
I can pretty much guarantee that would not be enough to land Benn. If Sens are going to offer sheet someone, I think it should be someone within their own conference, worst case scenario you force a team you compete against to pay more than they'd intended.
FREEBIRD
As already mentioned check TSN. come to think of it they're actually reporting it on sports net as I write this.
Then again, maybe it really all was nothing: http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=1a545c4e-3fd7-47e5-8e42-3502cd3e1da3&k=85684
Doan's a guy I wouldn't mind on a short deal (2 years max).
It appears that Latendresse will be given every opportunity to play on the top two lines (i hope it's the second).
If we assume that our second line will be GL-KT-DA we have a space for one person alongside Michalek and Spezza. If we aren't going to get an elite or near elite pleyer to fill that role (a Nash or Ryan for example), I would rather we let one of the kids audition for the role rather than fill it with a short term veteran.
That being said if Doan wanted to come and play here it would be hard to turn down.
It's too easy for sports fans to play the coulda woulda shoulda game and it never ends well.
I don't think it's fair to say we lost out on Nash either, the truth is we weren't ever really in the race because Nash wouldn't come here. The people that truly lost are the ones on his list who put in offers that weren't accepted. And CBJ.
Nash could still go against that trend and certainly the next 2-3 years he'll still contribute a lot even if he does decline somewhat - but I'm not heartbroken we didn't get him since it would have likely cost us some big pieces.
And I really hope Latendresse isn't expected to be on our top line. If he ends up there by playing well enough and developing some chemistry with Spezza that's fine of course - but if Murray signed him thinking "there, our top line is set" I'll be shocked.
Unless something changes, I expect the spot with Michalek and Spezza to be open for competition between guys like Silfverberg, Stone, Zibanejad, Hoffman, Greening and even toss Noesen in there.
I think it's probably down to Silfverberg or Greening (again) but hopefully a lot of guys are at least setting that spot as a goal for themselves.
From RDS, the only reliable source for the Habs (not TSN or Sportsnet...)
"Le joueur autonome sans compensation Shane Doan pourrai t venir visiter les installations du Canadien la semaine prochaine.
L'agent de Doan, Terry Bross, a indiqué à RDS qu'il était «possible» que le vétéran attaquant s'arrête à Montréal la semaine prochaine.
Rien n’est toutefois encore décidé quant à cette éventuelle visite, a pris le soin de souligner Bross."
If you can read that, then you know whats up. I was right...again.
I agree with your point that there seem to be a lot more people who don't think Nash is a good player now compared to two months ago.
Of course there were also those who were dead against it from the start.
Personally I would have liked Nash here but that contract is scary. Look at how Heatley has tailed off since he moved and whilst nash has more about him, hax makes a good point about goalscorers losing their edge. I would have and still would preferred Ryan. Younger and a better contract.
Agree 100%, people who hate on Nash cuz he didnt come to Ottawa are simply scorned and bitter.
Ryan I'm not sold on, he's work ethic has always come into question along with his attitude. And yes although his contract is better, he's a UFA in 3 years and there would be a great chance he leaves town for a better offer. Nash is locked up longterm.
another post clearly scared of Hax
source?
E6
Come on guys. Karlsson is at 48.6%. Keep the votes coming...
SPL
It's actually standard to use one single period when trying to erase a post. Three periods is for indicating a continuation.
Gawd!
Translation of the bolded parts of the doan rds article:
...he could come visit Montreal facilities
...his agent said he could stop by Montreal
...nothing is decided, his agent carefully added.
...
(Three periods is to indicate a continuation)
"sigh"
Good point - we might have heard already that he's been waived if they plan to buy him out since they don't have a huge window.
As for Ryan, since Philly lost out on Nash and failed to get Weber it seems they're the odds on favorite to be trying for Ryan. But they didn't want to give up "the pieces" to get Nash via trade so I'm not sure if they'd pay the price Anaheim is asking for Ryan.
I had written a scathing reply to Tookie about being douche in his reply (thanks conservativeHip pie for doing so nicely), then realized I didn't want to be one of those posters who dragged down the quality of the site with mindless insults, so I removed it.
I, sadly, had nothing of value to add. Yet I've managed to spur some responses nonetheless.
And now I'll face the wrath of Hax for replying to my own post... lol!
LMAO
Post of the day!
Ok...I'll weigh in from Sask on speculation Leafs are closing in on Bernier deal. Burke says they're not even talking with LA. As you were.
interesting
bernier is a huge upgrade in goal, and is probably the best goalie prospect (if hes still considered that) in the NHL
In terms of young backups I would say hes level with Rask (Schneider is too old to count)
If leafs get him, good on them thats for sure
I can't imagine they feel good with Bob & Mason in goal...
Going after Bernier by leveraging their excess on Defense would be too logical for Howsen
I'll bet they're trying for him, yes. But getting him? Not likely. Philly's proven one thing this offseason, they're only capable of losing.
Nash, Weber, even the schenn trade
Philly's Lineup doesn't look very intimidating right now. Bryzgalov is good, but a quick look at his stats indicates an off year coming up. Will Hartnell score 37g this year? I doubt it! a decline by briere should be expected and Can Giroux torch the league in a malkinesque style every year, or was he a one hit wonder
Solid back end, but Im thinking a decline in standings is in order for philly. The only thing that can save them is A) landing Ryan. B) Breakout years from both Simmonds and Couturier (too soon). or C) the travis yost 'luck' factor LMAO
http://www.the6thsens.com/2012-articles/july/sens-working-on-extension-with-alfie.html
Have seen other indicators too so hopefully there's something to it.
Stefan G:son Stefan G:son @steffeG
Daniel Alfredsson have been working out with some Gothenburg-base d NHLers and current Frölunda players at the club's facilities.
One player said he couldn't believe he was contemplating retirement, the way he was pushing himself.
and here I was thinking they would go for Hasek, think of the story lines..comeback attempt..winter classic against his former team..seriously though, either they ride Reimer or find someone proven..Bernier has potential, but was pushed aside with the emergence of Quick..am ok with Toronto keeping just Reimer and insert backup here..probably Scrivens lol.
Let's put the focus back on Ottawa. What Does everyone think training camp will decide, when it comes to opening night rosters?
Here is what I'm toying with IF Ottawa doesn't make some crazy ass trade to land a 1st line winger AND if Alfie comes back with a vengeance
Michalek - Spezza - Alfredsson
Latendresse - Turris - Silfverberg
Greening - Smith - Neil
Regin - O'Brien - Condra
Why not ride Alfie on the top line? I see Zib and Stone getting a showcase early, but will more than likely ride the bus in Bingo next year. Silf will be our only rookie playing. They will then use Daug in and out of the lineup as needed, possibly with Regin depending how he performs in his first full none injury season (if that happens).
Cmon mannnn.
Had that info up here two weeks ago :)
got anything new for us Chirp? lol..its a slow off season..other than DaCosta..really no sens related business to be taken care of..and we should probably be resigned to icing the roster we have now, minus maybe a few minor tweaks, but well, that makes sense with the rebuild..nothin g drastic..stay the course.
I think the 3rd and 4th lines are pretty much interchangeable and MacLean will reward those working hard and playing well with extra ice time from game to game.
I think Alfie is done as a 1st liner. It actually gives us better balance with him on the second line and I thought he and Turris worked well together last season. Having Alfredsson there also takes some of the pressure off Latendresse who (in my limited knowledge) doesn't strike me as a two way powerhouse. He's in a 3way with two very defensively responsible players.
The top line job is probably Silfverberg's to lose and that will only happen if somebody truly blows everyone else out of the water at camp. I expect to see various people tried out there during the season which (as much as I hate to admit I agree with zipzap on this) isn't ideal and is slightly wasteful for Spezza but we don't have too many other options at this point - which is, you know, year 2 of a rebuild.
LOL. Not presenting the info as new really, more just the fact that they seem to feel it's a done deal almost.
But yes - you indicated a long time ago that it was pretty much confirmed but they were working on some details before announcing.
Hax is slipping, his "source" have gone MIA!
This ^^ seems about right. 2012-13 roster.
Silf/Tender Spezza Michalek
Tender/Silf Turris Alfie
Greening Regin Neil
O'Brien Smith Condra
Daug
Methot Karlsson
Gonchar Cowen
Phillips Borocop
Lundin
Anderson
Bishop
Latendress/Silf Turris Alfie
Greening Regin Neil
O'Brien Smith Condra
Daug
Methot/Cowen Karlsson
Gonchar Cowen/Methot
Phillips Borocop
Lundin
Anderson
Bishop
I want to see at least a bit of Cowen with Karlsson.
@RobinLehner: Haha this moose Did not like me last night!!:) http://t.co/SIZtWXji
I agree with Tookie's lineup.
Michalek - Spezza- Silverberg
Latendresse -Turris - Alfredsson
Cowen- Gonchar
Balance of lineup is as per Tookie also.
ngeng Dop 'IHqu'Daq, ngeng HuD 'IHqu'Daq,
Lomond ngengDaq wovqu' pemHov!
'ej pa' rut malengruptaH jIH, bangna'wI' je.
Lomond ngeng Dop 'IHqu' 'IHqu'Daq pov!
bomqa'meH 'ay':
SuH: Dung He vIghoSchoH 'ej bIng He DaghoSchoH;
qanungba', leS Alba vI'elDI'.
'ach nem not maghomqa' jIH, bangna'wI' je,
Lomond ngeng Dop 'IHqu' 'IHqu'Daq belDI'.
ben pa' tlheD; nem pa' ghom. QIbmey ngemvetlhDaq qaS.
Lomond qoj chongqu' chongDaq wIghov.
'ej pa' Sep jen HuD DIleghDI', maHvaD SuD,
'ej choS botlhDaq boch 'ej bochtaH maSwov.
I like it and think deep down, that's what it'll be. I'm just trying to go against the grain a little. As much as Alfie on the 2nd is balance, he can still rock that 1st line if he's asked to do it, or asks himself, IMO.
He's a gent as well because he didn't mention her name.
I've always been saying that we should try to give Spezza a bit of a break from carrying MM9 and another winger even less suited to the first line. Mixing in some Alfie time would certainly do that but I'm not sure full-time makes sense. Not only is Alfie half a step slower than in his prime (maybe a quarter step) but we also need to get someone (Silfverberg etc) to the point where they belong on the top line.
So maybe it ends up being a bit in between with Alfie getting games/shifts on the top line from time to time.
Its a very dark picture of a Moose, why is that hilarious?
I dont get why you find this to be hilarious.
For all the times that Clouston, and sometimes that MacLean tried to find the chemistry of Michalek - Spezza - Alfredsson, it never had any chemistry.
Alfredsson will be 40 next December, and our Line 1 needs young speed !!
humour is subjective- i don't understand how some people find 2 and a half men funny, but apparently they are out there
With or without Sheen?
Holy fck brighten up, it's not exactly the picture of the moose I'm laughing at, it's what he saying about it.
No need to get defensive, just asked a simple question, fair enough.
You serioulsy need to chill out, go smoke weed man.
I agree 100%. If an org makes an offer to an RFA who is eligible to receive an offer sheet, there should be a timeline in place for them to sign it, or be forced in to arbitration. His agent is probably delaying this to see if an offer sheet is forthcoming. Hopefully the new CBA addresses this, as teams like Nashville, Winnipeg, etc, are either forced to match the offer sheets, or watch their RFA's walk for what may be late first round picks. Who's to say Philly doesn't come after Kane now? The teams need a way to protect their assets outside of the three year entry level deals, or the small market teams will be pillaged by the big spenders.
Yeah it could be as simple as "if a player has an offer from their current team that they have not officially rejected, they cannot sign an offer sheet from another team".
But then again, maybe there'd need to be some sort of timeline (like they can't sign an OS until 24 hours or more after rejecting) since they could reject the offer and immediately sign an OS. But then you'd need to do something to stop teams from continually low-balling players just to keep them ineliglbe for offer sheets.
Perhaps he wouldn't feel the need to get defensive if you didn't feel the need to take every possible opportunity to crap on what is being said in the room.
So you don't agree that the tweet is funny, big deal - was there really any need to put the guy down who did or even mention it at all?
Also I do recognise the irony of me jumping on a post of yours to bitch about you jumping on a post of somebody else's but sometimes your relentless negativity and misery towards virtually everything that is posted in this room gets to me.
there shouldn't be that show without Sheen...hear he wants on American Idol..might actually make that show watchable
Wow you need help bro, where did I put him down, for christ sakes I asked him what was funny about a picture of a mosse at night? He replied, end of story...
And here I thought Canadians had thicker skin...
Chill out people, holy smokes.
Yeah it could be as simple as "if a player has an offer from their current team that they have not officially rejected, they cannot sign an offer sheet from another team".
But then again, maybe there'd need to be some sort of timeline (like they can't sign an OS until 24 hours or more after rejecting) since they could reject the offer and immediately sign an OS. But then you'd need to do something to stop teams from continually low-balling players just to keep them ineliglbe for offer sheets.
Hence the arbitration. If you lowball your RFA players, you may get kicked in the ass by the arbitrator like what happened with Weber and Nashville last year. Winnipeg has made a fair offer to Kane, and if he were forced to arbitration, he would probably only be successful in reducing the term of the contract so he could hope for a bigger payday sooner. I know arbitration currently is for one or two year contracts, but it would make sense if it involved longer term offers like the one for Kane. An arbitrator could say it's a fair offer, but it should only be a 3 or 4 year deal for players coming out of ELC's. Of course, arbitration may just stay the same if the owners are successful in getting 5 year ELC's.
No worries
Gawd!
The Hax black list grows ever longer...
Arbitration could be forced after maybe two rejected offers - I'm not sure I'd want it forced after the first rejected offer. But since teams/players can settle before the arbitration date hits maybe it's fine to have the first rejected offer mean you set a date for arbitration.
Does (or should) a looming arbitration date prevent an offer sheet?
Arbitration does prevent offer sheets and it currently allows for only a one or two year contract which I believe is at the teams discretion. I'm not sure if it covers movement clauses. When Nashville was forced to pay Weber $7.5 last year, they opted for a one year deal so they would still have him as an RFA this year. If they had opted for two years, I believe they would not have been allowed to negotiate a new deal with him until Jan 1, 2013, and the Philly offer sheet would never have taken place. They also would have been negotiating with him under a new CBA and may have saved a boatload of cash.
Further to this, they also only offered him 4.5 mill and compared him to Byfuglien and Yandle as comparisons
No wonder Weber wanted to jump ship after that type of offer last year
The #Sens have re-signed forward Stephane Da Costa to a one-year, two-way contract: http://ottsens.com/OiNJBe
Finally a new contract for a forward that's a 2way deal
Agreed - though I think Da Costa on a one-way would surpass Butler in shock value.
Best part of this news is that (hopefully) it means Murray can focus on the Q4Q trade we're all waiting for.
So any thoughts on if they should get Turris done as well. He is an RFA after this year.. and no way I would want anyone to offer sheet him...
I agree speed is great, but 9MM is fast and Spezza can dangle. Alfie can still skate faster than many out there. Sometimes the skill and vision is more important. I agree that a mix of 1st line duty would be nice to see.