For those that may recall, prior to the Ben Bishop trade, I suggested the Sens could be looking to take a goalie at this year's draft and mentioned that Subban was a guy the organization was extremely high on.
Despite adding to the goaltending ranks mid-season, it seems as though the Senators are still considering a goalie with one of their picks in this year's draft.
NHL Central Scouting has Subban as the top ranked North American goalie and many believe he could ultimately be a first round pick. This mock draft has him going at 29th to the Devils, while Craig Button had him in his top ten. While there is no guarantee Subban is still on the board when the Sens pick at 15, expect them to target a goalie at some point in this draft.
Other names that continue to come up as potential draft day targets for the Senators include defenceman Cody Ceci, Slater Koekoek, Hampus Lindholm and Olli Maatta.
- Still no official announcement from the organization as of yet but Ottawa 67's star and Sens prospect Shane Prince has signed an entry level contract with the organization. He'll have a shot at cracking the Binghamton Senators roster as early as next season.
I know it's reaching but...
Tony Esposito not = Phil Esposito
You know what's funny, is that this type of comment about attitude has come up quite often on SC. "We" the fans of the Sens Army, criticize the rest of the NHL when there is a cocky or confident player, yet when it comes to Robin "The Beast" Lehner, we're all too quick to embrace it. Double standards much? There is nothing wrong with having some confidence. I actually like players who can back it up with their play.
If they bring us the Cup, that's all that matters. Teams are built upon different types of characters in the locker room so...
I don't think we'll draft Malcom, but judging by what I've seen of him, he's not like P.K at all.
You know what's funny, is that this type of comment about attitude has come up quite often on SC. "We" the fans of the Sens Army, criticize the rest of the NHL when there is a cocky or confident player, yet when it comes to Robin "The Beast" Lehner, we're all too quick to embrace it. Double standards much? quote]
No mystery here Boss. It's sports not math, and things don't always add up.
PK's the kind of player you hate unless he's on your team. Anyone hear Habs fans singing the praises of Chris Neil?
Good points all.
However I would not take PK today what he brings is not worth the headache/ possible dressing room problems.
For the first time ever it seems like the room is genuinely close and tight
Knit. Yes we won with Emery but how many problems did his and Magrattan's drug issues cause?
Not saying PK uses but Can't get over how Gill had to stop him from being a huge asshole to the training and maintenance staff
sometimes it is true and sometimes it is not, sometimes it is generated by media and sometimes someone gets the label for a single incident that happened in the past.
Some of you are really starting to sound like a bunch of stuck up stiff shirts.... a reputation this city has and you people are proving it.
maybe you should take a page from the glebites and go protest attitude lol
Sound ridiculous? well so does saying do not get this player or that player cause he may have attitude and now cause his brother has attitude lol
But just because one brother has an attitude.. does not mean the other brother does... They are two separate individuals.
Yeah I was surprised to 'see' that it appears Subban and Puempel know each other. I guess the hockey world is really quite small..
But will the Sens really take him in the first round? OR would they take their 2 third round picks + an 'asset' to move up to the 2nd round?
The draft can't come soon enough.. then after that on June 28th -- the Development Camp scrimmage at the Sensplex @ 7:00 pm.. just in case you did not know..
uhh..
malcolm is by far the most humble of the 3 brothers. he is not to be compared with pk.
Meh..I'd be happy to have him.
And sorry to bring it up again but anyone who is having issues accessing the site, do you happen to use teksavvy for your net provider? Its so strange, seems to work on my cell phone again, but not laptops.
Then you still have plenty of parts left over to try to make a huge deal for Nash/Ryan if they don't feel they have a shot at Parise.
Since we know the asking price is a roster player,a bluechip prospects/ a franchise goaltender, and a 1st rounder, we can then package Foligno, Lehner, Zibanejad and 2012 first round selection
At the same time the deal could go down earlier if we gamble and take BPA at 15 which would be Malcolm Subban probably. And if we get that second 1st rounder,we could still get a good defenseman.
Drafting a goalie is definitely a need but in my opinion, he'd have to have to be out of this world good to take in the first round. As in say, make a world junior team a year earlier than a goalie normally would. Goalies are just too unpredictable.
That's out of the box thinking I guess.
Ask yer mom if she blocked the site... LoL
Actually there were rumours going around that he and Cammalleri didn't get along in their views about training and so on. Also remember Hal Gill (?) saying he had too much of a cocky attitude. There were issues with Subban among the Habs, just a cursory view of some Montreal stories last year will prove that. ALso, just browsing nad it looks like he got in a scrum with Plex...so yeah, dangerous head case.
I'd rather go with Lehner over Subban though...if they draft Subban Lehner will lose it and might ask for a trade. :(
i can access the site on my home computer but accessing the site at work is very hit and miss
Unfortunately I don't know enough about the technical side of things to suggest other potential issues.
Anyway, apologies for all the annoying downtime the last couple weeks. I'll have this all sorted out, one way or another, in the very near future.
I appreciate your patience.
See I think Lehner is legitimately a fiery guy and cocky etc, but I really don't think he's the type to take his ball and go home if he's not handed the throne.
If he were actually the type of guy to demand a trade or go play in the SEL if we drafted another goalie then good riddance. It's one thing to be a cocky young goalie and need a little reining in but it's another entirely to not actually believe you can win a job with some competition.
Heck, Subban would play another year of junior anyway after which time Bishop's deal is up (if he's still around). So really if Lehner is as good as I hope he is he should look at Subban as his future backup and nothing more.
That being said I believe most if not all the claims of his disobedience are fabrications of the fans and have very little to do with reality.
dont sweat it chirp!
its the offseason. we should all be doing better things (such as enjoying the weather when possible) rather than arguing on a computer!
well said. im not sure why people think lehner has a character issue. yes i know he is cocky but he does it with swagger and pride. he can easily get under other teams skin and steal games while doing that.
correct me if i am wrong but didnt roy, hasek, thomas, brodeur. all were really odd characters, some cocky, some just plain out weird (look at bryzgalov..)
but these weird/odd ones seem to always be the best.
Just saying...
Except for the whole asking for a trade out of Montreal... Lol he was a good player. End of story.
Attitude does not necessarily mean the guy will be a locker room cancer or a liability on the ice.
I would do the following:
Trade with Anaheim:
15th overall
4th rounder
Puempal
Wiercioh
Foligno
for
Bobby Ryan
Schultz
then do the following with Edmonton
Ott 1st in 2013
Schultz (who is known to be willing to play for them)
Noesen
for the first overall pick
that would give us a top 6 of...
Michaleck-Spezza-Ryan
Yakupov-Turris-Alfy
Not sure about the Anaheim deal but would definitely take more to get Yakupov IMO, especially since having a top 6 like that doesn't really make our pick in 2013 that attractive..
1st = We do nothing
2nd = We package 3 rd picks and a prospect to get a second 1st round pick. We draft Subban at 15th(Franchise Goaltender>Top 3 D) Then we package the second first rounder, Foligno, Lehner, Zibanejad for Nash
3rd = We package 2 3rd round for a 2nd rounder to draft Subban in the second round. And we select a Defenseman with the 15th.
4th = We do something out of the box and trade for Bobby Ryan / T.J Oshie / Grabner (lol)
Naa
It's well documented Lehner's always played (prior to NA) up an age group starting the season as a 3rd string or backup & has moved up the depth chart within the organization by the end of that season. In Lehner's experience, the playing time that management wants him to get in the AHL isn't helping him develop because he believes he'll develop more facing better players in practice. The entire situation with Lehner is no more than a youngster with maturing to do thinking he knows better than the team what is best for him, and the team disagreeing. This does not mean Lehner has an attitude issue, or that he is souring on the team. My bet is; a guy with Lehner's personality is a little pissed about his situation, but even more so, motivated to prove management wrong.
Further, I don't believe that if management decides to draft Subban, it means a trade of Lehner or Bishop is imminent. It was just February Murray aquired Bishop because of a lack of depth, when the team still had Auld & McKenna. The team doesn't all of a sudden have depth at goal, in fact we have 1 fewer goalies right now than we did, we just have talent in the position. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to trade that away 5 months later. Especially when they want Bishop & Lehner to push each other, and Subban is at least 3/4 years away from even competing for a backup NHL job IF they are to draft him. IMO If Lehner or Bishop get traded, it won't be till nearer the trade deadline or next years draft/free agency period.
Regardless, I think BM & staff might trade the 15th pick for a pick somewhere 20 - 25th + a 2nd round pick, then might trade the 2nd and a prospect for a 25 - 30th pick. I think he's going to gather as many assets as possible & trade for a 3/4 defensemen. Not sure he'll trade for a top 6 forward unless Alfie does retire. If Alfie comes back, I think he'll wait & see how Silvferberg/Sto ne/Zibanejad do before making a move.
And the people who are talking about PK, give it a rest. I hate the Habs but I think PK is a terrific player and this year will be a breakout year for him. He is cocky yes, but who cares. These guys are all pro athletes, they are not people you should look up to and call role models most of the time. I am sure if you met your favourite Senator player you may not think they are great as you imagine them to be. Let these guys just be regular guys.
It's Puempel, Wiercioch and Michalek.
All of which I could forgive but who in the depths of hell is "Alfy"?
Blasphemy.
I would even go as far a Reinhart, guy is a man among boys, I see him turning out to be the Landeskog on D. Guy is rdy for NHL. But he is a top 6 pick, not sure we can get that.
Or do what we did to get Bishop - let another team use their picks & gamble on developing a goalie, then use a pick in a trade to aquire that goalie who is then less of a gamble.
I have only seen Reinhart play once, and it was on TV, and it was enough to convince me that if there's anyway that the Sens could package up some picks and prospects to move up and grab him...they should. He, along with Karlsson and Cowen would set us up on D for a long time, in my opinion.
I'm all on board with trading Foligno though. I love his skill set, but he is not capable of playing the 1st line. If he is a piece that can get us a Nash/Ryan, then I'm all for it. If not, I'm ok with keeping him.
I watched him a bit aswell, he did have a bad Mem Cup but that was the whole team, to me they looked burnt from going on that crazy winning streak, like 22+ games or something...
I hope we keep all of our guys. In five years, when this team is tilling with depth, we will all be thankful. All this talk of trading blue chip, top end talent like Matt Puempel, Robin Lehner, high draft picks, and even Nicky who is improving scares me. These are pieces for the future.
L.A just proved that with STARS you win, they went a acquired high profile players to win the Cup...
Something Ottawa should do in a year or two. (just imagine if Ottawa would have gotten Richards & Carter, we would possibly just have ended playing just 2 days ago)
Dude in 5 years half those prospects will either be gone or fizzle out. You think they will wait 5 years toiling in the AHL just to stay with Ottawa, the minute they're contracts are up and they can have a shot at the NHL with another club, they will take it.
Guys dont stick around waiting for 5 years. They either make the team they are in or go elsewhere. Wake up man.
Tell the Nashville Predators and the Detroit Red Wings that and they will laugh at you. As well as Zack Smith, Colin Greening, Erik Condra, and Mark Borowiecki, who have all paid their dues.
Nashville? you mean that same team that just got by the 2nd round once in they're franchise history last year? and are now about to lose Suter with no suitable replacement. They same team that traded for Kostitsyn & Fisher who are the best FW's, Yeah...thought so.
So, your saying that Michalek isn't a star? He had more goals than any LA player last season - Rick Nash too. I think you try to substitute a guy like Foligno instead. It puts us in a better position in terms of depth. I think it depends on what Foligno wants for salary too.
If we manage to sign Schultz (telling him our plans to trade him to Edmonton - one of the destinations he wants to go to) then trade him, his value is way up there. As it stands Schultz is being compared to the likes of Drew Doughty and has the potential of being a superstar in the NHL. Add in Noesen (great potential 2nd liner who can do some time on the first) and another first in 2013, and I think that it can possibly tempt Edmonton who's looking for a Schultz type (star defensive player).
Fine Fine I can't spell when its past midnight and I had a few too drink ;)
No, the Red Wings as in Mrazek, Ouellet, Jarnkrok, Smith and Emmerton who have all developed very well and in a couple of years will be replacing the oldest team in the NHL.
And no, the Nashville Predators who have developed Blum, Ellis, Josi, Bourque, Lindback and will continue to be a contender for years down the road.
The fact that the guys you mentioned failed to get it done in a league that is getting younger and younger just proves my point.
This is a rebuild bro, where you do things from the inside out. You don't do a rebuild by trading bluechip prospects for 30 year old, overpaid guys.
Where do I say that? L.A. has a shit load of Stars, not just 1 or 2, they acquired the pieces they need via trade and it cost them draft picks. Ottawa should do the same and I think we will.
Ottawa top 6
Spezza
Michalek
Turris
Alfie
Foligno
Greening
L.A top 6
Kopitar
Brown
Williams
Penner
Carter
Richards
Not only is that freaking stacked (L.A), they are all playoff type of players to boot. Bump down Foligno and Greening for Carter & Richards and do you think we even go 7 vs the Rangers?!?!!?
Just saying.
None of those guys are sure fire NHL'ers, except maybe Ellis for NSH but the rest are like our Greening, Condra, Peterssen, Hoffman, Da Costa, all assests that can be packaged for quality as they are easily replaceable.
Not to mention Greening spent 59 games in the AHL; Condra about 1 1/2 seasons, Boro 1 season (plus playoffs Calder cup year). The only one that spent any significant time in the AHL was Smith with a little over 2 yrs spent in Bingo. None of them were anywhere close to 5yrs.
Yeah Jasontheoldsenc hirp is off his rocker! What I'm trying explain to him is in 5 years we will have a pretty good team aleardy (mix of picks and UFA's) and half our prospects wont have a spot in Ottawa. Its always the way it is, they have a few players they are high on and the rest become career AHL'ers or are packeged in deals to acquire missing pieces.
Thank ya!
x2
Also Chirp, its Stanko32...I am back in on all devices and did absolutely nothing on my end. I seem to be booted out for most of the evening and until 11. I cant see how its on my end.
Who knows, I am back for now so enough about that lol
I agree with your tweet, this is going to be one hell of a draft I think
The rest…
KYLE TURRIS
MILAN MICHALEK
MIKA ZIBANEJAD
STEPHANE DA COSTA
NIKITA FILATOV
MIKE HOFFMAN
STEFAN NOESEN
JEAN-GABRIEL PAGEAU
SHANE PRINCE
MATT PUEMPEL
JAKOB SILFVERBERG
MARK STONE
They’re not true first liners… all of them have great potential as good/great second liners… lets be realistic here.
So now we have an overstock of 11 potential 2nd liners… do we wait 5 years and gamble on their worth 5 years from now? Or do we do what BM mentioned (deal quantity for quality)? Do we keep our current pick at 15, and get another 2nd line quality player to add to our depth?
Seriously, we have make some moves. BM has to pick his players for his 2nd line (plus 2 or 3 to develop), then make some deals to get some bonified 1st liners to play with Spezza. There’s no use letting our assets go to waste (not all of our prospects will pan out 5 years from now)… scouts are giving praise to our prospects and we have to sell while their value is up. And the way we’re playing, our picks will only be giving us more of what we already have… To really finish this rebuild BM has to be creative and find a way to trade quantity for quality as he mentioned…
You are a June 13 baby, too? Happy joint b-day!
Now you have to let me win the golf day... we are twins!
By that logic our foursome should be completed by Jason Spezza and the Olsen twins!
Are you counting the Olsen twins as 1 person? Nice!
That sounds like a fun foresome...
L.A. was smart, picked up and held on to Doughty, Kopitar, Brown, Quick. Had the likes of Simmonds and Schenn and traded assets for more proven players like Carter and Richards. Add a few free agents and there you go. Seems simple enough.
We, Ottawa, have that exact potential with continued patience and a shrewd move or two. Whether it be Nash, Parise, Suter or whatever, I think the right move can put us on top in two to three years, not five (not sure where that number came from, nobody develops a player for five years in the minors on purpose).
I would say he has very legit potential to be a top line layer on our team.
Goalies are so hit or miss, that 1st round picks are rarely used on them. I could count off several names of goalies who have excelled after being drafted late (Miller, Quick, Thomas, Anderson, Elliott, Halak etc etc etc)
They take forever to blossom, and only a select few excel immediately (price, ward, fleury)
We need defensive help much more than goaltending help in terms of impact on the team within 3 years or less, cause I would almost guarantee you that if we draft Subban he wont be on the big vlub for at least 3-4 more years especially if we hold on to one of lehner/bishop
I'm not sure if you missed the Stanley Cup Finals this year, but both teams in the finals were built through a hybrid of good draft picks, some UFA signings and some good trades for elite players. This is the proper way to build an organization. Teams that build purely through the draft like the Islanders and Oilers take a very long time to get competitive and have a very small window because all their RFAs want big contracts around the same time.
The best way to rebuild is to take a smart approach to all 3 areas in which you can improve your team.
in addition to that statement, only teams that have built through the draft who have hit homeruns have been able to advance the rebuild
see Pitt (Crosby/Malkin/ trade up for fleury)
see Chi (toews/kane)
All other teams have top end home grown talent surrounded by nice additions (UFA or Trade)
See Anaheim (Getzlaf/Perry and Niedermayer/pronger/selanne)
See LA (Brown/Kopitar/ Doughty and Carter/Richards
See Boston (Marchand/Berge ron/Thomas/Segu in and Chara/Recchi)
Ottawa haven't had top 5 picks to go strictly through the draft, because sure we are getting great prospects but none of them can just lift the club on their back and be franchise players. We need to be smart and do the combo approach because in the end odds say thats the way to go
It's a very good point about the unknown of drafting goalies, however if we find a way to keep Lehner as well, that will be quite the duo to contend with for the next decade plus. I think it's one of those rare opportunities to guarantee yourself to be set at the goalie position that may be worth taking. Especially if management feels they can sign a UFA dman or trade for one.
Exactly, not every rebuilding team gets top 5 picks and home run once in a lifetime players. But even Pitt (all their wingers) and Chicago (Campbell, Ladd) had to make smart trades and UFA acquisitions to make it happen.
But isn't that one Bishop is for? and having two star goalies always bites you in the end. Sure LA is good with bernier but I doubt he lasts the summer there and he didn't do anything to help them win cup
Boston and vancouver sure, btu now look at them?
But it is really funny the difference one year makes.
Last year the talk was of a 3-4 year rebuild... finish last for the next 3 years, b/c we will be crap for at least that long.
Fast Forward on short year into our 3-4 year rebuild, and now the talk is, lets bring in Nash, Parise, Ryan for a run to the cup!
Folks I believe we are smack in the middle of these two philosphies. We are well ahead of the rebuild, but not quite ready for a full fledged run at the cup (not to say we dont have a chance)
So the reality is that we do have too many NHL ready players, and not enough roster spots.
This is exactly the position we would want our brilliant GM in so that he can assess which ones to keep and which ones to move.
We tend to forget the likes of
Smith
Greening
Condra
O'Brien
Karlsson
Cowen
are all rookies or barely out of being rookies.
Add to this all the prospects that deserve a shot this year... this only adds to the need to make moves from roster spotgs. And with the Genius BM at the wheel, there will be plenty of moves, that will only increase our stock, and our ability to produce an even better team next year.
Keep bringing up the suggestions, I am sure a few of us will be bang on on some of the predictions.
PS Chirp I too am having issues with getting on to the site
So the majority of suggestions I have seen really don't abandon the rebuild. Our hand is essentially all but being forced by the total # of contracts allowed.
Bringing in a Nash WILL cost us our top prospects. You're crazy if you think we'll be able to package loose for him. So instead of having three scoring lines as we've spent the last 4 years building through the draft for, the Senators of the future will have all their eggs on the top line. Sound familiar? The reason why we never won anything when we were top heavy was because it is so easy for the opponents D to shut us down.
Depth in the playoffs is vital. Superstars are far from vital. Boston won the cup last year with ZERO superstars in their top 6.
Patience is a virtue, quick fixes are lame.
and I was having issues this morning. It is not a caching issue so the hosting service is dead wrong.
I have never had issues at work but did this morning. Site was not down completely as I was able to get on via my phone. Did not clear any cache, cookies etc. and was able to get on just a few mins ago
The only things I can think of mentioning to the host is possible routing (DNS) issues and the path to get to the site is not consistent... route points are changing
next time I am unable to get to the site, I will run a tracert to see if it is different from when I can
The other thing is the hosting service may be limiting HTTP traffic and some people are not able to get on during busier times
but both these are host server side issues
I may know someone who could help with hosting if it makes at all of a difference.
lemme check, maybe I can help. If you want me too of course
The point is that we have so many good prospects we can trade half and keep half and still have the depth throughout the roster after having traded for a true #1 winger. It won't cost all 5 of our top prospects in the trade, so the remaining 2 or 3 will still fill out the 2nd and 3rd lines. (Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Stone, Noesen, Puempel)
I even tried googling senschirp, and then clicking on the links to stories provided by the search engine, and those wouldn't work either. If the internet didn't freeze it would get the message saying DNS problems
I do not think that we should give up Michalek in any deal for any top 6 forward. He is a top 6 talent and a great penatly killer.
It is very unlikely that the Ducks trade Bobby Ryan, Getzlaf or Perry. (About as likely as Ottawa trading Spezza, Karlsson, Cowen, (and Alfredsson))
Two prospects I really do not want Ottawa to trade are Stone and Zibanejad.
I believe that Stone has the skill and size to be a huge impact player. A lot of the past winners have had a player of his type terrorizing goalies in the crease. (byfuglien, lucic, holmstorm, penner (strickly play-off perfomance) I also beleive Stone has better "Hockey IQ" and offensive potential than those players.
Zibanejad I do not seeing turning quite as the offensive dynamo most want him to become, however, he will at the very least become a extremely good defensive center with offensive threat(most likely 3rd line, moving up based on injuries)
Silfverberg is an unreal prospect, with good leadership but if was to be packaged for proven scoring talent such as Nash it would not bother me.
(Again I think he is a great prospect and will most likely have a great career)
Foligno, Bishop, Silfverberg, 1st 2013 - Nash
IF (big if) Subban is drafted.. he is at least 3 yrs away from the AHL and probably another 2 - 3 after that from the NHL.. So why would Lehner demand a trade to be in competition with a goalie over 3 yrs in the future?
Besides it's a non-factor as everyone says Lehner is gone.
Gee a kid, just a short year ago we were heralding as the best prospect the Sens had. A champion.. best player at age 19 in the Calder Cup Playoffs... Finally a stud goalie in Ottawa... Now they can't get him out of town fast enough.. Funny how things change so quickly.
Lol reading that comment all I could think of is those old scouts in "Moneyball" sitting round the table saying things like "ohhhh you seen his girlfriend...sh es a dog...kid clearly has no confidence"