It has been talked about a great deal on this site and around the internet, but there is obviously plenty of unpredictability when it comes to first round of the draft. In interviews posted yesterday, both Tim Murray and Pierre Dorion indicated that the approach will be to take the best player available.
Both guys mentioned that if Larsson was there at 6th, they would not hesitate to make the selection. Obviously that wouldn't be an ideal scenario for the Senators but it shows that they are committed to the idea of taking the best player on the board.
A few other points of interest from Tim Murray's interview;
- Obviously this is a very important draft for the team. They want to maximize the picks they have and strengthen the rebuild.
- The Sens would not hesitate to trade picks away to get better quality than what is on the board. There have been plenty of rumours about the Sens making a play for a top six forward. This seems to indicate that they would be willing to trade picks to get that player if the opportunity arose.
- The team is ready for any situation-Moving up, moving down, or staying where they are. If they move up they would like to avoid moving that other 1st round pick but the decision will likely have to be made at the table. Teams have not indicated what it would take to make a deal and move up at this point. Make no mistake, the Sens want to move up and that is their Plan A.
- Murray also mentioned they are certainly willing to move up to #3 or even #1. The team would be willing to use draft picks and/or roster players to get a deal done.
And from the interview with Pierre Dorion
- The team is confident they can get a good player at #21. Said they are likely looking at a solid top 3 line player or a top six defenceman with that selection.
- Indicated that it really depends who they get at #6 when it comes to whether or not they would be with the NHL team next season.
- When asked about whether or not they would take a goalie, Dorion was quick to point to the success of Robin Lehner. Sounds like if they do take a goalie in this draft, it wouldn't be until the middle or late rounds.
Hope to have another update with a little more draft talk either late this afternoon or this evening.
Cowen-Karlsson
Rundblad-Larsson
Phillips-Gonchar
although Cowen is a Right side D-Man and Phillips & Gonchar are away above paid third line pairing are defense is set for the next 3-5 Years.
If Murray can move any of Gonchar, Wiercoch, Regin, Kuba, and O'brien in a package to get another 1st he should go for it.
Murray said he contacted Edmonton and they wanted Karlsson
How do you figure that? Larsson wont score 30+ goals for us... We need more top 6 talent, and possibly 2 30+ goal scorers!
And that is not Larsson, SENS wont go with a D with their 6th pick, I can ALMOST garanty you that!
It will be Landeskog, Strome, Huberdeau.
That was merely an assumption. I don't see why Karlsson HAS to be included to make it work. It won't be cheap, but I'm thinking a deal centered around our 6th or Rundblad should get it done.
I would do it, especially with Rundblad coming up, I would rather keep Rundblad than Karlsson. Rundblad is 10x better defensively and will probably put up the same amount of points as Karlsson.
There is no doubt we would be much better in the long run with RNH rather than Karlsson.
So we take our young all-star defenseman and trade him away for an unproven prospect? Doesn't make sense, he's a core building block going forward, one of the only 'untouchables'.
The points he scores doesnt hide the fact that he cant play D.
RNH is clear cut #1 as per the last scout rankings. If anyone had the #1 pick they would all select RNH.
You have to give to get (we're talking about trading for a first overall pick here), and Karlsson won't be going in any potential deal, which is why I brought up Rundblad. Not taking anything away from Rundblad here, but as much as his stock has risen, he's still unproven.
If the price is Karlesson, EDM caan keep RNH. Hypenated last name people usually suck anyways. I will state "just kidding" as to make it obvious that it is a joke.
"Nobody remembers the second draft pick" - Alex Daigle in reference to Chris Pronger.
Im not sold on that bro, 1 goal and 8 assists in 37 games last year and 4 assists in 17 playoff games.
That to me does not say "best player in the draft", I agree he is young but you have to show me a bit more than that to get the best player title!
If they would want Rundblad... then the 1st round pick they get will be 21st NOT the 6th. I also don't know if giving up Rundblad would be a good idea. No defensive prospect in the system (not including Cowen or Karlsson) will be as good as he is or projected to be.
I'd be shocked if the Devils didn't draft him is he was available at 4. You never know, though.
Rundblad is currently a better prospect than Cowen is for us. He would most likely yield us more in a trade. He was an absolute STEAL for the Sens last year. If I'm not mistaken, the Russian St. Louis drafted at 15 refuses to play.
Rundblad is playing in a Men's league not the minors, the SEL is recognized as being the 2nd best League in the world (possible KHL mention here too). The AHL is a minor league.
Therefore comparing Locke to Rundblad is uninformed, Rundblad has put up twice the numbers Karlsson ever put up in the SEL and that is why I say he is more complete than Karlsson.
I think its a little too early to be cashing out on Karlsson. Sure he may always have better offensive tools than defensive tools...
But he looks like a smart kid who can surely expand his game at both ends of the ice. To say that he can't play D, although somewhat accurate in terms of his past performance over the last 2 years or so... He still has a ways to go before he reaches his prime, leaving him plenty of room to improve his D-game.
I think this would be the best of all worlds (based purely on what I've read elswhere, Courturier and Zibanejad would be my preference - one to play next year and the other to develop in the minors).
...if trading with Columbus, they may also be tempted to part with Nikta Filatov, given his abysmaltrack record over the last couple of years. Would love to see that guy try out on Spezza's left side.
I think it would be a smart move too. Get a guy to replace Shattenkirk. Are any of you hearing a lot of talk on them taking Landeskog early?
But IF they can't move up and all the forwards they wanted are gone... and Larsson is there... yes then they take him.
It's about the BPA.
Spezza
Wiorcioch
Kuba
21st overall
for
Derek Brassard
Jakub Voracek
Nikita Filatov
8th pick
Then you pick 6th and 8th get Couturie+Zibi
or Strome Zibi
Then all of a sudden all young talent. Rebuild well along I think.
Karlsson was -30 last year not -35 (that honour belongs to our defensive dman that is Phillips). Considering the fact that the team was terrible defensively, it will most likely not get that low again. -10 seems about right (and remember PP points don't affect +/- so he will always produce more than he'll give up). Also taking into account that he's still only 21 and is going to improve.
Continued...
With out first pick I'd be happy with any of Couturier, Landeskog, Strome.
With our second first rounder I'd be happy with any of Puempel, Rattie, McNeil, Sheifele. (with a heavy lean towards Rattie.)
Thats not to say i'll be outraged if we don't take any of these guys, but based on what I know of the various prospects, those are my choices.
For a goalie I'd love to see us take Gibson who plays in the QMJHL.
For some second round picks, if any of these guys fell to us I'd be ecstatic. Ritchie, St. Croix, Rackell, Prince.
I usually skip over people's lineups because they're a dime a dozen and often totally unrealistic. This one is pretty good though. Even without these latest interviews, it was pretty obvious they'd take Larsson at 6th if he's still there (BPA philosophy).
Generally, I think it's more posturing than anything. You don't want other teams to think you'll avoid picking any specific player or any specific position because it might mean you miss out on a team wanting to swap picks, thinking the Sens will take their desired player otherwise.
Sometimes GMs divulge their targets, but I think that's more of a Burke/Murray/Ka dri last minute courtesy to help keep things moving.
Rundblad played one more year than Karlsson in the SEL after their draft years. If Karlsson played an extra year over there, I don't think it would have been unreasonable to expect him to put up what Rundblad had this past season.
21st overall
66th overall
Lee
Wiercioch
8th Overall
Filatov
There's a team down in this part of the world (Brampton) who would love to get their grubby mits on a centre like J.Spezza. He's an Sen for life I hope.
I doubt Landeskog, Huberdeau, Zibanejad, Strome or Couturier would all be gone, one of them will be at 6 as I see Larsson and Hamilton getting picked somewhere from 2-5.
THIS!!!! Are we really going back into this argument again?!?! The SEL > The AHL....Come on people!!!!
Obviously all of those forwards wouldn't be gone at 6 because that would mean RNH wouldn't of been picked....lol
He did play vs CHL'ers in the WJC and didnt do very well for the way you talk about him.
Junior int' totals 23gp 4g 9a 13p 20pim
And that is vs players his age and skill. Not saying he's gonna be bad, just that the forwards he's mixed in with all had dominating years. He didnt
Man they played Burke for a fool! When it went to Game 7 against the Habs it was almost looking like Burke was gonna win that trade big time...
..."THANK-YOU KESSSSELL !"
Tookie, if he is available at 6 and all the forwards are taken...I can GUARANTEE you they will take Larsson. You always take the best player available, regardless of need.
LMAO.
I just hope they pass on Grimaldi. Guys his size have an uphill battle of making it, regardless of how good they are offensively. The NHL is not the AHL, OHL, WHL - its a league for men, not boys. Briere and St.Louis are the only two stand outs of smaller players. AND PLEASE dont say Ennis or Gerbe. Ennis will be alright, Gerbe...meh.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!
I disagree but it wont come to that. Like I said, Larsson & Hamilton are going to get picked in the top 5. LEaving one of Strome, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Couturier and even Zibanejad.
Are you even reading my posts?? Even if Larsson AND Hamilton are still there, one of those forwards will be too. You make no sense Tookie.
I'm sure RNH would be taken as well meaning 1 of these guys has to be available
1) Edm - RNH
2) Col - Larsson
3) Fla - Huberdeau
4) NJ - Hamilton
5) NYI - ??
That leaves Landeskog/Coutu rier/Strome minus whoever the Islanders pick for our pickings. I wouldn't think it would take much to move up one spot to the Isles pick to get the guy the scouts really want.
I think it's more likely for the sens to trade up to the #3 pick trading the 6th and 1 or 2 solid prospects to the tune of Wiercoch+Stone.
and IF the sens do get that #3 pick, who do you see them taking? Huberdeau orrrr Landeskog?
6- RYAN STROME
21-NICKLAS JENSEN
The I don't know.
As stated by Johne we could verywell have a Calder winner on our hands, we definitely have a Superstar in Rundblad.
Oilers want EK for their 1st? lol throw Eberle in and it's done... Idiots....
Take Michalek and shut up... BM can replace him, he'll just mess up his knee 15-30 games in anyway.
Conklin/J.MacDo nald/Harding for back up? I think it will be one of them
Cowen isnt a right side Dman. He shoots left and plays left. Only reason he switched sometimes at the WJC was based on rotating defense partners for different situations.
If the leafs manage to "move up" I hope they pick right behind us at some point so Murray can return the favor and f**k over that tool Burke.
#21 - Rocco Grimaldi
4th round - Tyler Conz
That is what I was going to say. LOL. Can you imagine we had the 6th and 7th picks and we got both Larsson and RNH? Hahahaha.
So your admitting that "if" (as slim chance as it seems) all those guys you mentioned were not available with our 6th pick....that Larsson would be the Sens best option at that point?
The only thing you'll get from that trade is a riot in the city of Ottawa. Try something more along the lines of:
Spezz + Weircoch
for
1st overall + 19 overall + Gagner
Edm gets their #1C for Hall + defensive prospects. We get future #1C, a #2C, and 19th overall that can be packaged with 6th overall to move up and grab Lando (RNH's future winger) while keeping the 21st overall pick and for a future 2nd liner. Therefore in 1 draft, we have 2/3 of our future top line and 2/3 of our future 2nd line set. Add silfvberg to the 2nd line to complete it. Then next year will hold another high pick for us and ... BOOM rebuild over!
MCNEIL, Scheifele, Biggs, Saad, Puempel or Jenner.
BUT I REALLY REALLY want Mark McNeil to be our second 1st round draft choice.
then again we'd just end up 4th because someone else would win the lottery.
Spezza is not going anywhere....Per iod.
The Leafs ranked 120/122 of Pro Sports teams in North America...LOL
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Shawn-Gates/The-Toronto-Maple-Leafs-Worst-Team-In-The-League/67/36521
If Tampa would accept it I'd give them Kuba back just for being so nice.
But in all honesty when it comes to trading for Stammer I don't think we have the assets, or at least I think that there are other teams that could put together a far better package for him than we could. I'm sure Tampa would want offensive help NOW and not "later"
Burke is going to be on this like a fly on shit though.
What's the point of keeping a 1st line center entering his prime on a team that is trying to get as young as possible? Let's face it, Spezza won't be helping us compete for the cup for at least another 4 years. I just don't get why you would keep such a huge asset like that when he's gonna be at least 32 next time the Sens are actually a competative team. Putting Spezz on the trading block would fuel a huge bidding war (LA, EDM, CLB, and many more teams) that would set our team up for the next 10-15 years with our young goalie (19) and very young defense core. I know its hard for some ppl to let their stars go but think with your brain for a minute instead of with your heart. If the RIGHT deal comes along, gotta take it.
Do ppl on this site not know how to read? Yes he's amazing... for a team who is competing for the cup!!!! When you rebuild, which is what we are doing, you go as young as possible. You don't want your SUPERSTARS (spezz) getting up there in age when the rest of your team is just starting to mature. Everything has to be timed perfectly to maximize your competative window or else we will have 3-5 years to win with spezza whereas having RNH would give us a bigger window since he is much younger.
You don't trade those. All of you who are praying we bottom out again, don't get your hopes up. This team now has winning in their blood. The coaches, the players, the fans. This team will win a championship like Boston did, not like Chicago or Pittsburgh.
This isn't proven yet but I guarantee you Spezza will always be better than RNH.
No offense, but "Trade Spezza" = idiots
Also I would like to see Murray sign Erik Cole.
shut the fuck up and sit down.
How about NO!!!!
I Agree that's crazy talk.
It is rumoured the Sens don't want Couturier... so if only he is at 6th... then what do the Sens do if Larsson is there... IF the other forwards are gone. This draft is a crap shoot. Anyone can go at anytime.
he has the ability to become a top 4 two way defensemen. Despite our depth at D, we don't have alot of d prospects that can play both sides of the puck.
Except in the Kaberle trade... Burke took the Bruins to the cleaners... after watching Kaberle in the playoffs as compared to Kelly... Sens should have gotten more than a 2nd rounder.
Tim Murray said in his interview yesterday.. if the players they want or expected at 6 were gone... and Larsson was still there.. then they take Larsson.
The Sens draft attitude.. take the BPA not for position.
Okay you trade Spezza... who is your #1 centre.
I think you are over valuing Karlsson. He is a great player but not worth a trade like that.
I think Karlsson for 1st overall straight up is a good value. I think it would be hard for both side to make the deal and to also walk away from the deal...
That's exactly what it is, a rumor. Larsson WON'T be there. IF he is, we obviously take him, but he won't be. People forget that Couturier had 100+ points last season and great work ethic. He sees the ice really well. Difficulty with skating strength can be improved. Remind you of any center the Sens currently have on our roster?
But Toronto wants him...
Why even start this conversation?
BM won't trade 1st in 2012,2013,2014
Burke would, Kadri or Kulemin with the trio of 1st picks for Stamkos.
1. Top 6 keep their picks and Colorado goes BPA
EDM - RNH; COL - Larsson; FLA - Landeskog; NJ - Couturier; NYI - Hamilton; OTT - Huberdeau
If Edmonton trades their pick, but no other top 6 does, I think it would fall the same way. I get the sense NJ is between Couturier & Hamilton if the top 3 are gone.
2. Colorado goes off the board imo and takes Huberdeau so Ottawa trades up to 5th with NYI, then trades up again to 3rd with Florida as Florida still wants to stay top 5.
EDM - RNH; COL - Huberdeau; OTT - Landeskog; NJ- Larsson; FLA - Hamilton; NYI - Couturier/Strome/Zibanejad
3. Colorado breaks sens fans hearts and takes Landeskog
EDM - RNH; COL - Landeskog; FLA - Larsson; NJ - Couturier; NYI - Huberdeau; OTT - Hamilton/Strome
This may be the scenario that scares Tim Murray as Hamilton could be the BPA at that point. I personally feel like Colorado's pick will determine a lot.
Personally I still have Couturier 3rd overall talent wise, I'd be amazed if the Sens didn't want an NHL ready responsible center who was projected #1 overall at the start of last season, but didn't stay there only because he didn't increase his wow factor this year. He still had a really good season and projects as a very good 2nd line C in the mold of what a lot wished out of Fisher on the 2nd line.
I think he took his ball and went home
Ottawa then picks up the 8th from CLB for Gonchar and a 2012 3rd.
Ottawa sends 2011 2nd, Regin, and O'Brien to Colorado for the 2nd Overall.
Ottawa sends Weircoch to Edmonton for MP.
With the 2nd Overall Ottawa selects Larson.
With the 6th Overall Ottawa selects Courtier.
with the 8th overall Ottawa selects Strome.
With the 15th overall Ottawa selects McNeill
With the 21st overall Ottawa Selects Phillips
This may be the scenario that scares Tim Murray as Hamilton could be the BPA at that point. I personally feel like Colorado's pick will determine a lot.
At which point with trade Filatov and 8 for 6!
Oh man if Conz is out there and we dont grab him in the 3rd round im going to cry. The guy looks amazing. WJC he really impressed
Return the favour?
Burke did us one, he took KAdri and that is who Murray was going to take, thank God Burke took him, we went with Cowen.
Are there bats who wear sneakers and waterfalls of beer in this fantasy world you speak of ???
Yes... This is the truth... Spezza will be next in line to replace Alfie and wear the C proud. Some may say he is already the captain...
I like that idea, but we'd have to add significantly more on our end. Filatov is only 21 and was a 6th overall pick. It'd probably cost our 21st & 6th to do that deal ... though it still sounds interesting.
have to agree with Tookie, on the Rundblad vs Karlsson.
At the same age Rundblad was the best D-man in the SEL. Whereas Karlsson did half the numbers, and is no where near the quality of D-man that Rundblad is, he is very strong in his own end! look at hi highlights
Filatov got a league-wide bad reputation in Columbus. The management, and previously, Ken Hitchcock, hated him. I don't know if I would go as far as getting rid of the 21st, but the guy does show some great talent. Maybe all he needs is a fresh start. It would be a gamble, because I don't know how certain teams are on his personality.
Okay -- to continue with this crazy draft idea... one problem in all of the... Gonchar won't waive his NTC to go to Columbus.
Then Karlsson came to Ottawa and played two years for us.
Rundblad continued to play in the SEL and in 2009-2010 played in 47 games for 1-12-13. It was only this past year that he broke out after playing three years in the SEL.
Don't anoint him as a better NHL'r yet.
He may become one but he doesn't make Karlsson expendable. He should just make our 1-2 punch incredible on the Power Play.
21. GRIMALDI
It wasn't the end result, it was the insult and arrogance. That is how I meant "return the favor".
Brian Lee was also a high draft pick (9th overall I think) and Columbus needs help on the back end. Trading Filatov (an as yet underachieving unproven scorer at the NHL level) for Lee (an American defenceman who looks like he's about to break out) plus some other asset(s) may make a lot of sense for both.
The risk of course would be that Filatov turns out to be yet another highly skilled yet lethargic Russian hockey player. It's one worth taking though.
Even if you are bat-shit crazy I'm liking the enthusiasm.
In this scenario however we would absolutely take it one step further. Devils need to stock some depth and would likely trade their 4th for the 15th and 21st, if not the 15th and our first second rounder. So you can add Lando or Huberdeau to that mix as well.
21. Grimaldi/Biggs
35. Namestnikov/Cat enacci
Offense Karlsson > Rundblad
Defense Karlsson < Rundblad
But the offense Karlsson shows is dynamic. Best pure offensive defenseman in his age bracket. Rundblad will be credible offensively but nothing like Karlsson is and will be.
Rundblad has better size to play defense than Karlsson but he does make some poor decisions back there. He has the potential to be better defensively than Karlsson but he isn't by much right now.
I think they should "announce" it AS they are making their first pick... "and with the 7th pick in the 2011 entry draft, the Winnipeg _________ select Mika Zibanejad."
One thing should be certain, they wouldn't want to forever be in the history books making that selection as the "Thrashers" would they? That would not be a good start.
I think you hit the nail on the head there, Ken Hitchcock hated him, just like does most young players. Exactly why it's great he was not in the running for the coaching job here, he just isn't great with young raw talent imo. He's still an exceptional prospect in my books.
I agree, they are definitely trying to distance themselves from anything Thrashers related.
Ditto, I think pretty much any guy @ #6 you know what you're getting. Not the highest of ceilings, but a safe pick with a lot of skill.
Even if you are bat-shit crazy I'm liking the enthusiasm.
Please no more posts from you sir. You've taken ridiculousness to a whole new level. Yea, can't wait to get my drury sweater. You've got me all pumped.
Trading spezza karlsson rundblad sounds like a leaf trade.
I would rather no picks in the first round than give them up.
We need to get better not get rid of anything good we have.
Sometimes to get better you have to give what doesnt fit, we dont have any top 6 talent, Karlsson could very well be an All-Star and all that crap but who really cares about the All-Star game, its not really an honour anymore to be selected, most of the best players wuold prefer not even go.
If Karlsson could bring us 1 or 2 top 6 talent, would you not do it for the betterment of the Club?!?!
Rundblad staying in the SEL 1 more year and dominated will prove to be a great positive as he is now much more well rounded than Karlsson. Not saying get rid of Karlsson but if the offer comes and top 6 talent is there, I would do it and the SENS should too.
No need to crap all over the guy. The scenario could happen, though the odds are even longer than a cup parade on Yonge St. next year...(well maybe not that long)
If our scouts have Larsson as a 88.5 and Strome (for example) as 88.4 they will take Strome. He's the best player "for us". If they have Larsson at 88.5 and the next best player available at 84.2 then, yeah, they'll take Larsson and then try to work some trades to move out a D (player or prospect that we rate lower than Larsson) to get a forward (player or prospect that we rate HIGHER than the 84.2 guy).
You want the best end result. If you draft a guy that just gives you a log-jam in one position that forces you to trade for lesser players at another you're not "winning" anything.
It's a little more complex than just jotting down names in an order before the draft starts.
If we do trade to move up I hope it's to get Landeskog and that we don't have to give up our other first rounder (or anything else too crazy) to get him.
He suggests, Couturier, Strome, Zibanejad.
I like Couturier, because he's a nice blend of NHL-readiness, and high upside as well.
3 MORE DAYS.
And what has gotten your panties all into a bunch today? LOL
I completely disagree, BPA means the highest rated player independent of position and not "for us". In the Strome/Larsson situation u mentioned BPA is still Larsson. The minute your positional/skil l type needs go into the equation it's no longer BPA, it's just who you decided is the best fit at that pick.
Smh
We need a centre.
Where did you hear that? Seems like he's clearly better than Strome - and being more physical seems to fit our needs better too.
Nothing I've read suggests he's better than Strome, certainly a lower ceiling. Couturier's ahead of Strome because he is damn near NHL ready.
This is why I can see us pick Landeskog + one of those top centers + Strome / Zibanejad / Couturier.
Dollars to donuts that is one of our draft strategies, but we'll see if they can execute on it.
Okay, so follow that thinking through then. Let's say for the sake of arguement that when our pick comes up Larsson is available at we have him rated 88.4 (who cares how they got that number) and we also have Strome rated 88.3. Would you really take Larsson? And then what exactly? You'd have to "win" a trade to get the forward we need and in the process give up a strong D prospect. All for .1 on some rating system?
Don't get me wrong, if a particular player is well ahead of the rest then you take him for sure. I'm talking about when the difference is very small.
That's not the point.
The point of drafting a center isn't to get everything out of Spezza.
It's to fill the void of the second line centre.
A sniper has yet to be determined among any of the draft prospects this year. Usually, you can find them in Free Agency.
And at least Spezz has BB16 (hopefully) next year, who does look like a legit sniper.
What we need is a young centremen behind Spezza and take some pressure off of that first line.
Murray even said he's lookin at centres this year. TSN thinks so too.
We don't need another RW in Landeskog. That would be a complete waste of a pick. Drafting a position that you need the least.
...some of us fools don't suffer the opinions of other fools on here lightly !!!
Hey. anyone up for trading for a young as yet untested but enigmatic Russian winger from Columbus?
^^^ This.
It really boils down to 2-3 years from now (or next year in Johne's perfect world). We'll need a winger to play with Spezza and a second line center. One of those hopefully we can draft with #6, the other will (likely) come as a UFA or maybe a future pick. If the team feels they can get a really good winger to play with Spezza then draft a center. If they feel they can sign a true #2 center then draft a winger. Of course, it will depend on which specific draftees we're talking about when our pick comes up.
GO SENS GO!!
That's the thing.
There are more/better wingers to be had in Free Agency this year than centers, and there are more/better centers to be had in the draft then than wingers.
Nuff said.
Hasn't everbody heard that Drury has a serious (potentially career ending) degenerative knee. NYR can't even buy him out this summer due to this injury and he will go on long term IR once he has his medical at training camp. No one is trading for him.
I agree that in the case of Larsson vs Strome the sens SHOULD take Strome if those are their ratings, but I wouldn't think you can call that BPA. I agree BPA should be disregarded when the ratings are that close ... but it can't be called BPA in that situation.
I wouldn't say anything if Hax wasn't trying to correct people, but BPA straight up means the highest rated player in your rankings independent of needs, position or skill type.
In terms of what the sens should do, I completely agree with what you said, they should take Strome in that case, it's just not BPA.
Yeah if they feel that BB16 is the winger of the future for Spezza sure, but that's a bit of a question mark still I think. For the sake of arguement, if they feel they can sign a really strong #2 center then why not draft Landeskog (if he were available to us or we trade up etc), sign that #2 guy and then let the boys battle it out to see which winger plays with Spezza and which one playes on the second line (or whatever)?
Why does that matter, this team isn't contending for at least another 2-3 seasons, and by then I'm sure there will be better centers that can be acquired through FA....This isn't about our need for NEXT season this is about our need for 2-3 seasons from now. We need a 2nd line center, that's true, but I wouldn't pass on Lando based on that. Next season means sweet fuck all in terms of what our needs are. So in terms of drafting, we take the BFA, Best Forward Available, not best center available...
And then what happens of Alfie?
Don't need so many RW's, when we clearly need a young center. and a LW, too.
This is just my opinion, but the draft is in your control and the UFA market is completely out of your control when you're bringing in talent. Especially with the cap going higher and higher, you're going to see more and more UFAs retained.
I like the way BB16 played besides Spezza last season. He's still young, and I think will play very well and could very well be a long time Sen. He's a RW. Why would you draft another RW, just to compete with another player who's projected to play well with Spezz, when there are other voids in dire need of filling?
I think it depends on the team you want to build. Do we want to repeat our 2007 1 line team, or do we want to go deep down the middle like Pitt, Detroit and even Boston. I want a winger for Spezza, but I think getting a high end 2nd line C is more important in the end. Especially now that Spezza is better understanding how he can make average players better.
Its all a matter of philosophy, but I think you can mix and match parts with free agency far better than using free agency to find a missing piece. Theres a million roads to building a contending team.
Enough said.
Finding players just to revolve around one guy is retarded.
What we need is good depth. I already considered BB16 penciled in besides Spezza next year. That's a start. But instead of cultivating another winger just to play beside Spezza, we need to draft a player that will help make this team better, not one player better.
However, if they take Larsson I think that we have a great chance at getting Landeskog. And hopefully Murray has a plan in place for the scenario where the Avs take Larsson and things could fall in place.
Our path starts similar to Boston's. They lost Thornton for basically nothing as we did with Heatley. Ironic that they're both on the same team now.
Boston's built with no pure top end talent and instead a lot of depth, as well as being solid down the middle (Bergeron, Krecji, Kelly, Savard when healthy, Marchand and now Seguin) They are so deep down the middle they have to put them on the wing. Can you clarify how that meshes with your get a winger for Spezza comparison?
When Tampa won the cup they had Richards and Lecavalier. They're now competing again now that they have STamkos. Detroit has Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Even Vancouver had Sedin and Kessler. Actually looking at the list, I can't figure out the last team to have a weak 2nd C and win the cup.
no one said anything about a weak 2nd line C, I just think it's easier to find a second line C ala Richards via UFA than using a pick on one. I'd much rather draft a winger to play on the top line.
Sorry to be a grammar nerd, but 'irregardless'? Really?! I sometimes wonder: is our children learning?
Pretty much 100% of the time, it's best to say things as simply and directly as possible. Trying to sound 'smart' can end up making you look stupid.
Can wait until draft day so I won't see all these "here are my picks, Murray better do as I say"
Ah ok. Personally I just want the best player we can get, no matter the position, as I think it's easier to keep BB on the 1st line or even Michalek, then to force Foligno or Regin to do 2nd line C duties. Aside from Richards, most of the other UFA Cs are 3a/2b types imo.
That's not even close to what I said. I was referring to how GMs generally don't tell other GMs who they want because it could be to their disadvantage re: moving up or down in the draft.
It's not about swindling, it's about courtesy.
It's funny, YOU'RE the one spreading disinformation - it was BURKE who told MURRAY he was taking Kadri. He asked Murray, "is he your guy", I believe, then said "We're gonna take him" or something to that effect.
Get your story straight. It wasn't about being an asshole, it was saying, "GO TO PLAN B if Kadri is your guy because we're taking him. It was an honest, courteous exchange between two mutually respecting professionals.
Michalek should not be playing with Spezza (2nd line LW), but due to our depth chart he is. His low cap hit should be attractive. Foligno or UFA can replace him.
Neil can be replaced by Z Smith or Cody Bass, as much as I like Neil, he's an asset that still has some value.
I got my fingers crossed that 9MM is gone before training camp. FINGERS CROSSED!
I'm still hoping that we go: Strome if we don't move up, or Lando if we do. Then take Phillips or Jurco with 21st. Jurco has Datsyuk written ALL over him (offensively.) On the D side he'll defintely need some work but it's do-able.
And lastly, BAD ENOUGH I have to see Fucktard Eklund tell the world at least 6 times a year that the Kings want Spezza and are going after him HARD! putting together some insane offer. We don't need it to spread here
Spezz is NOT going ANYWHERE... not at the draft, at the deadline, nor in 2015. UNLESS we get a Milbury type offer and win the trade bigtime, and I mean BIGTIME! so QUIT reading into EVERYTHING Eklund says PLEASE! A little of his rumors can have some merit, but use your head.
So if we draft a winger that's fine (I love the 'kog!) but we'll still need a #2 center. And if we draft a #2 center we'll still need more depth on the wings (particularly since Alfie won't be around much longer).
I think the point is that most people would agree that Larsson is leagues ahead of anyone else who may be availble if he were to fall to 6.
“It is time (to look at a forward), but if we’re picking six, five forwards go and (Adam) Larsson is the next guy on the board, then we’ll be picking Larsson,” said Murray, referring to the Swedish defenceman playing for Skelleftea.
“It’s that simple. We can’t walk away from a guy that we think is a top-end player and take a lesser player.”
Disagree on both actually. MM9 is the only part of the Heatley trade Murray can point to and say "I didn't get totally screwed". Don't discount that value. Not saying he's untradable, but Murray would have to KNOW he's winning any trade involving MM9.
As for Neil, it seems clear to me he's one of the pillars they want to build the team around. Basically they want a bunch of guys that (hopefully) have more talent than Neil but work as hard as he does... and are as loyal as Phillips.
Again, not untradable but I think saying Bass or Smith can replace him is a stretch (or Foligno replace MM9 for that matter).
Agree on this specific case that Larsson is likely far enough better than any forward who might also be available at 6 - but keep in mind GMs don't always lay their cards on the table. Could be he's hoping if Larsson were available that the 7th pick team will want him more than we do.
And I'm glad they did. Cowen will be twice the player
Not saying he should take Strome over Larsson (even if that were possible) but he should certainly listen to offers for his pick. If we could get Strome plus another high pick from the Jets then why not give them our 6th pick so they can pick Larsson?
Agreed, but it's fun to think of it as if Burke thought he was pulling one over on us. Also fun to think about somehow being able to snatch someone Burkie wants - but again, we'd only do that if it we'd be taking the guy anyway.
Here's what I expect will happen. The draft order will stay the same (Ottawa will select 6th overall)
1. RNH
2. Landskog
3. Heberdeau
4. Larsson
5. Hamilton
6. Strome
Something tells me that the Senators are REALLY big on Landeskog and he's the guy they've wanted for a while, regardless of what they're saying.
That'd be mint!
I think Sean Couturier is exactly what the Sens need. A centre to play behind Spezza with a high upside. He would make our top 6, along with signing a LW for Spezza in Free Agency, legit.
Jokinen/Gagne/Fleishmann-Spezza-Butler
Michalek-Couturier-Alfie
I like the looks of that.
I don't get where all the talk about trade MM9 is coming from. He's a good player, and a legit top 6 forward. We need more of these players, why would we ship them out?
I would be estatic if that happened!
OK with that.
I wonder why that is. Like, if he's left at 6th how can you say no?
96 points in 58 games, Michel-Brière Trophy winner as the MVP in the Q, and was selected to Team Canada at the World Juniors.
What's not to like. I think he would fit seamlessly in our roster.
Cmon Dorion.
Spezza would become the second line center (1b) in that scenario in 5-7 years behind RNH. This is a business that still needs to put asses in seats and Spezza does that. He has a no trade clause that makes him hard to move. I think Spezza is pumped at the opportunity to lead this team.
Maybe they think he is another Alexandre Daigle. I dont think they want to go through that again
I'd say that was evident in the Pierre Dorion interview that was posted on the Sens TV section of the website the other day. When he said we'd like to move up to 3rd the "3rd" came out instantaneously and then after he awkwardly he stated "or to one" so it sure doesn't sound like they're looking any higher than that. Honestly though if the price is high there isn't enough of a difference to try and get him. Heck if you're going to 3rd there are many who would suggest not picking Huberdeau would be a huge mistake although personally I like Lando better.
A good point. I think the issue is they have identified certain traits that have sent up red flags. That part is speculation on my part but yes, perhaps it should be more that they don't like him as much as some of the other guys that could be available at that pick.
Absolutely.
I don't think there's any question that if he's left at sixth, even with MZ and RS to be chosen, this guy should get drafted.
He's a safe pick, but with high ceiling.
http://www.puckworlds.com/2011/6/20/2232666/2011-nhl-entry-draft-swedish-prospect-preview
no, he isn't.
Huberdeau is probably a great player and will be for some time, but I'm not sure about his meteoric rise in the charts due to one playoff season (although a fantastic one).
Seems like Landeskog has always been right at the top. I for one am a fan of the intangibles, and yeah even something like skating hard two ways can really influence the other guys on the team to work harder. He just seems like the complete package we need.
1) when I said as locks about success in the juniors, I meant a sub-nhl team. SEL, KHL, AHL...bottom line : nhl is by far the best hockey league in the world. Success in such a" feeder" league (don't start people! :) ). Doesn't mean the same is automatic in the nhl! Therefore, you cannot compare rundblad and karlesson. Its like comparing a Porsche to the next Porsche that's coming out in 2 years...then selling your porsche at a loss, hoping the new one is better. Makes no sense. Although the analogy sucks, you must agree its faulty logic.
2) spezza for xxx. See number 1
3) if murray can trade the 21 and multiple round 2 picks for a top10 pick, I would be great with that. We have quantity. We need quality.
Cheers
Yep that's similar to how I see it playing out. Plan A is definitely to make a move for Landeskog but obviously will not pay more than they think is reasonable.
if the cost for Lando is to much, Zibanejad sounds like a great option.
His defense teammate, Ryan Murphy, had more.
Now for a team that is in desperate need of forwards who can produce, why would trading UP to get Landeskog be good for the team.
21th pick - Rickard Rakell
35th pick - Victor Rask
48th pick - Max Friberg
61th pick - Shane Prince
Trade Rundblad?
Rundblad unproven?
What the hell people?
As a 20 year old defenseman, he DOMINATED the 2nd best hockey league in the world, not to mention that the SEL is NOTORIOUSLY tough to score in AND he averaged a point per game.
That qualifies as UNPROVEN???
There is ZERO value in trading him, because no matter what Ottawa gets back, the lose the deal, even if it is the 1st overall pick.
Rundblad is the best prospect in the system, period. Not Cowen, not Lehner. He's the best player in the world not playing in the NHL today.
Never mind the trade talk, I think it's nuts to even suggest that he'll need time in the AHL. He just dominated a better league than the AHL, and now he's a year older, a year stronger, and a year better. He's going to play 82 for the Senators next season, and he'll be a Calder finalist.
Spezza has married a girl from Ottawa. They now have a baby, and the grandparents are half in Ottawa, and half within relatively close driving distance to Ottawa.
Spezza has been handed a leadership role with the team. He's finally going to be the man.
If Spezza went to Columbus, he is now uprooting his family and throwing his personal life into disarray, and he'll go to Columbus to play 2nd fiddle to Rick Nash the way he was forced to play 2nd fiddle to Dany Heatley.
So, for all the reasons above, he won't be traded. On top of this, you consistently NEVER consider the biggest factor (and say it with me now):
Jason. Spezza. Will. Not. Waive. His. No. Movement. Clause.
So, can you PLEASE STOP talking about trading Spezza? Please?
Does this mean you think the scenario they don't like is the one where Couturier falls to us and RNH, Larsson, Landeskog, Huberdeau and Hamilton are taken? Or just that they wouldn't move up to get him? Or even that they'd take Strome or Zibanejad ahead of him? Just curious.
6th overall - Landeskog/Huberdeau/Strome
21st overall - IF the player(s) they wanted around that pick are gone... the 21st with Ottawa's 2nd (35th) to Vancouver for Cody Hodgson.
From hockeyfutures:
Hodgson is a solid all around talent. He does not possess blinding speed, or flashy moves, but he tends to get the job done. He has developed into a fine two-way player. Hodgson is an extremely smart player who uses all of his skills in both ends of the ice. Excellent skater, very strong on the puck, can quarterback the powerplay. Hodson has very good hands & excellent on ice-vision.
His development is greatly stalled in Vancouver. The coach appears to have no faith in him.... make a mistake.. out of the lineup. I mentioned before... I don't believe he is happy in Vancouver... & I think going to a re-building team where the coaches will teach and have patience... would do this kid a world of good.
Well for starters the team filled with guys who score a ton of points dont always win (ask Vancouver). Boston is a prime example that character grit determination and other intangibles are just as important as skill. These other intangibles are something that Landeskog oozes. Also, has everyone forgotten the kid can kinda score too? Not to mention play the most complete 2 way game of any player in the draft. Also, he was hurt and missed some time this year. Here's how his year looks if given a full season of 68 games- 46 goals (6th in OHL) 39 assists
85 points (17th in OHL)
It's not like the kid cant score.
The Spezza thing is beyond ridiculous
I do think they will be looking for a 2nd line C, rather than a winger.
So, if they're trading up, I'm 99.9% sure that it would be to take Huberdeau.
I think that if they can't get him, Ryan Strome is probably option B, and if they're both off the table by the time Ottawa picks, then Sean Couturier is probably option C.
Unless one of the top guys REALLY slides, I'm figuring that Ottawa is going to draft Ryan Strome UNLESS they are able to move up, and if they do I think they'll be taking Jonathan Huberdeau. Will be absolutely stunned if it isn't one of these guys.
Calm down man, I was just throwing something out there or something of similar value that the Oilers would almost certainly ask for in return for the first overall pick now that we haven't ruled out acquiring it. Please keep in mind we're talking about a FIRST OVERALL PICK here, which means A LOT (i.e. potential franchise player caliber) to a rebuilding team like Edmonton, not some bottom six forward or spare part. It takes a SERIOUS OFFER like this to get Tambellini to think long and hard whether to pull the trigger. No need to get up in arms about it. Not taking anything away from Rundblad, he's an extraordinary prospect, but while he's proven in the SEL, he is NOT NHL PROVEN, at least not yet, which is the biggest thing. Just ask yourself, if you were the Oilers GM entertaining offers for the #1 pick, would you not be asking for a return centered around Rundblad or a piece of similar value of Rundblad?? It's really that simple.
Book it.
Oh and if anyone is going to bring up trading Rundblad again refer to Terror's post. (210) Same goes for Karlsson
Way back when BM said they were going to rebuild he said he had a plan for the rebuild.
In order to have a plan you have to know what you want each position (player) to contribute on each line and what players you need to let go.
They know what they want or need out of this draft, they will do anything within reason to make it happen.
If they want RNH they will try hard to get him.
If they want Landeskog same thing.
They have plan B, C and D if required.
Despite what some think here BM is building a team to contend this year, to think they are building anything else is crazy.
However I am not saying we will contend as we will have unproven players so this is the only grey area to us actualy contending or not and how fast players develop and perform BUT the potential will be there this season.
hence the 1-3 year contending.
We need a top talent to play our first line with spezza Butler.
We need two second line players to play with Alfie and we need a third in the works to replace Alfie at some point.
Line 3 and 4 from Bingo, if line three plays like line one or two some day, perfect.
If the move up is unreasonabele like Spezza Karlsson Rundblad FA/trade is the next route.
Powerful admission from a professional recruiter.
I couldn't agree more. I watched some of his games and he absolutely dominated the ice. He looks like a young Lidstrom but with an edge. He goes nowhere. This is our new #1 Dman.
My favourite hindsight of last years draft:
Q: Taylor or Tyler?
A: Jeff.
we already did screw burke over. he was furious when ottawa moved up and took karlsson in 2008.
I detect a distinct lack of patience 4 MONTHS into this rebuild. We do not need anything specifically for next season. We need to be designing a team for success 3 years down the road. Acquisitions in the near term need to support success in the long term.
The bottom line, I think, is that these are the types of players, packages with Kuba (I hope and pray) who Murray will be attempting to deal in the hopes of moving up. NOT Spezza, Rundblad, Karlsson, etc. This team needs to keep as much top-line skill as possible. That is our glaring weakness.
Ott sends:
21st
35th
65th
Calgary sends:
13th
45th
Yes that would be the best scenario! But if that doesnt happen we can always go after Yakupov next year and solve our "elite player" drought.
WAYYYYY TOO much .... I saw an analyis of past years when teams moved up and it tiook no more than a 2nd rounder, and maybe a throw in to move up.
They could move their #21 and another asset (pick, or prospect) and move up.
Just wondering, whats your source on that?
I thought that looked out of place too. Karlsson is not the type of player Burke would go after.
doesn't make sense. Burke didn't have another pick until 60. I don't think he expected him to drop to 60. It isn't like he was picking a few picks from then.
With that said....what options does Ottawa have picking say 4th AND 6th, or 5th AND 6th.
I said the 4th or 5th because 1-3 is in a bigger "asking price" range most likely. But back to my question...what do you think two picks between 4-6 would do for Ottawa? Instead of hoping for that player we "really want" to be available at 6th, we have a chance to get him at 4th or 5th, and still have our 6th as well.
Thoughts....
We have so much quantity and a Calder Cup championship team. There MUST be parts (lower draft picks and AHL prospects) that can be combined to snag another top quality pick.
It would be great, I just don't know what it would cost. And one thing it can't cost is next years 1st. Unless you can lottery protect like you can in other leagues? I don't know that you can
I would expect they can lottery protect the pick, and it would definitely be the smart way to go.
An interesting theory. (taps fingers)
Yeah I'll buy it!
Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want Murray to move up in the draft? I don't want to see the Sens trading away their young depth. We need to add to it.
One trade scenario I'd like to see happen... 21st pick & Wiercoch to St Louis for Oshie & a 2nd. Blues are having trouble signing the guy and he'd be everything the Sens want. Size and skill and plays a good 2 way game
As for the captaincy, I believe Alfie should offer it to Spezza now. Allow him to take this team by the reigns while Alfredsson is still there to mentor him along the way
I know having a great centre roster is the ideal but do we wish to overcrowd the centre position with youth at this stage? If we assume the big three are gone we either pick a centre and a dman or 2 centres. There isn't a winger other than Landeskog worthy of a top 6 pick. At 15 or 21 however we would get a good value winger pick like Puempel or Rattie or Jurco.
The way I saw that go down on TSN, and from what I knew before the draft was that Murray let it be publically known that he was gunning for Kadri. Burke was just trying to make good T.V by going up to Murray while mic'd and getting him to admit that Kadri was his guy. Burke was just putting on a show for his fans I don't think Murray used reverse psychology to get Burke to take Nazem. Murray genuinely wanted Kadri from what I heard through the media before the draft. Burke was just trying to make it look like he screwed BM on live T.V by 'stealing' his pick. He probably actually thought Kadri was going to be good. But we all know he just did us a favour - look at kadri, the guy still looks like he's 170 pounds.
I totally disagree. Spezza played his best when we had Comrie as a #2 C. A true 2nd line C takes a ton of pressure off him. It gives us a skilled C to put on the 2nd PP unit so that teams are forced to spread out their top penalty killers. It also forces teams to spread out their best defensive players rather than stacking them all up against Spezza 5 on 5(which is currently what he's fighting through).
It was reported pretty well everywhere when it happened. Burke was with Anaheim at the time and drafting at #16 or 17. Murray moved up from 18th to 15th to draft Karlsson based on the knowledge that Burke wanted him at 17.
Very well laid out, those first 4 will be gone by the time we get to 6. So you can forget them, my concern is that one of the best of the bunch Strome will go before Hamilton, and then we choose either Hamilton or Coutourier.
And then my choice will be Coutourier...he is better then his recent slide indicates, and he has some size which cannot be taught
SORRY BURKEY!
Rundblad unproven?
What the hell people?
As a 20 year old defenseman, he DOMINATED the 2nd best hockey league in the world, not to mention that the SEL is NOTORIOUSLY tough to score in AND he averaged a point per game.
That qualifies as UNPROVEN???
There is ZERO value in trading him, because no matter what Ottawa gets back, the lose the deal, even if it is the 1st overall pick.
Rundblad is the best prospect in the system, period. Not Cowen, not Lehner. He's the best player in the world not playing in the NHL today.
Never mind the trade talk, I think it's nuts to even suggest that he'll need time in the AHL. He just dominated a better league than the AHL, and now he's a year older, a year stronger, and a year better. He's going to play 82 for the Senators next season, and he'll be a Calder finalist.
great comment...Rundb lad is better then Karlsson
I wonder who that was.
burke was the gm of the ducks during the 2008 draft. they picked at 17. and no i cant give a source because it was 3 years ago, but it was talked about quite a bit back then. burke ended up drafting jake gardiner afterwards. not every player burke goes after is 6'4 220 you know
i heard it was jaden schwartz that he was looking at. not positive if that was true or not tho...
Quoting The Apostle:
I remember him saying that too. Didn't give an indication as too who he was targeting.
exactly , Burke was trying to impress laff fans early in his GM role... boy did that backfire!
Come on man, there's no way you could make that type of statement. Such an irresponsible thing to say. The rest of your comment was pretty good, but no way is Runblad the best player not in the NHL. Here's 1 example of just prospect rankings that don't even have him 1st. And that still excludes players that are no longer considered prospects ... think KHL.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_top_50_prospects/
sens stay at 6, but move up with there 21st to #8.
To CBJ:
21st
48th OR 60th
Wiercioch
To OTT:
8th
With #6 Ottawa takes Strome, and with #8 they take Zibanejad
Last time I checked, 3 out of the 4 players in this list ahead of Runblad already have NHL experience or finished the season in the NHL. I believe theblackterror said, "not playing in the NHL today." Besides, that top 50 prospect did say that Runblad is possibly the best prospect playing outside of North America. That says a lot!
The exact same website named him "prospect of the year". They call him the best player who is a prospect in the world. Doesn't mean they project him to be the best in 5 years, but he is the best hockey player currently who is a prospect according to them. Not 100% that I agree, but if you're going to use them as an example I will rebuttal with them.
Skinner?