(UPDATE 11:25 AM)- Rather than post an entire game day thread I think I'll leave this attendance topic up. Should make for some good discussion.
The Senators will make just the one line up change tonight. Mike Brodeur will make his first NHL start on home ice against the Wild. Mike Brodeur fans, Rejoice!
An exclusive story in this morning's Ottawa Citizen reveals just how drastic the drop in paid attendance has been at Scotiabank Place so far this season.
The Senators organization is giving out three times as many free tickets as they did last year meaning Ottawa has suffered the third largest paid attendance drop in the NHL. Only the Phoenix Coyotes and Tampa Bay Lightning have been worse.
I think we all knew the attendance was down this year but these numbers are truly stunning. To read the entire Citizen exclusive, click here.
More game day information in a little bit...
91 comments:
What do you expect? It's Ottawa...one of the most apathetic and quickest to bail on itself cities in the world. The Sens have an off season, the fans run.
It's because Ottawa has some of the most apathetic fans in the League.
It's one trait I like about Toronto Fans-- they stick up for their teams.
You know what keeps me away form SBP - the atrocious parking situation. I enjoy the games, but my night is consistently ruined by the 45 minute game of car-chess.
I'm more than happy to watch EVERY game from the comfort of my couch.
So what are we going to do as fans ? We have plenty of time to critique this team but do we have the time to support them. How many games does the avg person on here go to ? Let's challenge one another and step it up and support our team. We have been spolied the last ten years but now they need us.
The fans in this city suck! And Gawd forbid that we should lose this team, they'll be the first ones to start bitching. I bought my first season ticket this year and will be renewing next year. Yes, we have an average team, but there's nothing like being in an NHL arena on game day. For people that whine that parking is too expensive: take the bus. For people that whine that food/drinks are too expensive: are you there to stuff your face and get loaded, or watch the game??? I can only afford the tickets, so I make sure I eat before the game. So quit your freaking belly-aching and get in line for tickets. GO SENS GO!!!
I`m going to the game tonight, hope that Brodeur plays well in his debut.
And how come I`ve never gotten one of these free tickets if there are so many floating around?
It all comes down to the location of SBP if you ask me. I used to go 5-8 times a year to see the sens play. We would make an event out of it because we had to leave at 5:30 or earlier (from Gatineau), meet up, eat somewhere, traffic + parking and barely make it to our seats before the anthems. Now if you end work at or around 4, plus the commute to get home to change or whatever, you get really rushed!
So this year I just looked at the TV schedule and got all the channels that I could see the games on and simply have the event at home, whats wrong with that?
I used to live in Washington D.C from 1998 to 2006, and still go down regularly. Let me tell you, over there its so SIMPLE! I lived in the suburbs there. I remember taking 20$ with me, paying my metro fare, my subway sub, my hockey game ticket and my metro pass back home, and get home with 60 cents. I did this COUNTLESS times, never seemed rush and LOVED my experience doing it. Of course now that Ovie is in town the tickets have gone up, but the commute is still the same.
I'll never know why they didnt build SBP somewhere downtown... The War Museum right on the river would have been the PERFECT spot, but noooooooooooooo.
They screwed up, now we have to live with that.
Now for you supposed 'awesome fans' who claim that not attending home games means the fans suck, maybe pull your heads out of your ass and look around. Most people work til 4, have families and responsibilities to attend to before travelling OUTSIDE the city to the arena to take in a sens game.
Bad location translates to lower attendance, plain and simple in my mind.
I think you meant "Mike Brodeur's FAN, rejoice!"
Let's be real here. It's Christmas time, people are broke or worried about losing their jobs, homes, whatever.
It's Minnesota, not exactly a huge draw, AND...the Senators have been alternating decent games with not bothering to show up at all.
Why would anyone pay several hundred dollars to watch their team take the night off?
It's not always about winning, it's about competing and showing effort.
You can't blame the fans for that. You can't blame the fans for not wanting to drive all the way out to that retarded location.
Toronto...they have millions more people to draw from, a way bigger corporate community, the arena is right in the heart of the financial district, and the mass transit system kicks Ottawa's ass.
You can't even get to SBP on the bus unless it is game day.
I think it is all about priorities. In a time when people have real life concerns on their mind, pissing away hundreds on tickets, parking, food, drinks and souvenirs is really not an option.
Any1 else find the "our fans suck" getting really old/uncreative. I've really grown sick and tired of it.
The fans in our area are both passionate and loyal. Walking around downtown ottawa or any residential area and you'll see all kinds of ottawa clothing, car flags, etc... The media and the fans are critical because we do care, not because we dont. Sure there are alot of Toronto and Habs fans, but that is to be expected given our location between two of the most historic franchises in the NHL. Even those two franchises regularly boo there team on ice significantly more than we do!
Why has attendance dropped in ottawa so much? Well lets see.
1)We've had almost two full years of joke hockey (the ray emery debacle, the endless coach firings, uninspired play on the ice, Dany Heatleys crap)and with Clouston we have only recently returned to respectability.
2)This team hasnt had any new good players break onto the team in years and has waived goodbye to many good players. A very dangerous combination.
3)The location of the Sens arena is definately not ideal (not rly within walking distance of much, terrible traffic and parking going to the game)
4)O ya, the economic status.
Seriously, just cut the shit with the "our fans suck". Odds are you are not that great a fan urself if "all our fans are terrible"
Where do these free tickets come from? I want some!!!
Anyway, Cubilas, it's fans like you that tarnish the reputation of Senators fans. After the game, parking lot take a while to get out...so what? Hang out at Silver Seven after the game. Or take the bus! Why would you post you're happy to sit your ass on the couch? You can do that every day of your life!!! If I could afford a season ticket I would go to every game, but I can only afford so many. Anyway, thanks for supporting the team!!!
no 11:37, our fans really do suck... and im not talking about low attendance, although that bothers me i understand that there are enough reasons for it. I'm talking about the crap that constantly floats around this city about trading our core players every time things are looking down. Can you imagine if we had traded Alfie for Conroy a few years back, like a large percentage of the fanbase was calling for? its always the same shit, just with a different player, people have seemed to shift their focus onto Spezza now. Also when at the games, there is a general lack of enthusiasm. I am generally one of the more energetic/drunk fans at the game and alot of the time the only people I can get into a chant with me are kids under the age of 10.
I really wish I had the luxury to attend at least a couple games. My excuse is a tad better than traffic; I live 6 hours away. Appreciate what you have while you have it.
People who complain about traffic, have you ever heard of a bus? They run shuttles to games or take the OC, it has its own damn lane!
OK, so everyone stay at home. And when the team folds in 5 or 10 years, you can start cheering for the Leafs or the Habs. I'd love to stay and chat some more, boys and girls, but I have to get ready for the drive to Scotiabank Place. GO SENS GO!!!
@ anon 11:56:
I know your pain. I've been to a couple games where I was yelled at by other fans for cheering too much. I've literally had someone yell at me, "STFU, they're not going to score!". And the more polite ones just look at you and laugh at you as if you're some sort of halfwit for cheering for your team.
I mean, I would understand it if I was excessively obnoxious or something, but I wasn't. I don't even drink...
i find it real funny how all these jackass that are complaining about sens fans in ottawa and tickets sales but probably never buy tickets themselves. i buy season tickets and ive thought about dropping them because the team is just plain boring to watch. ill give them a couple more years, but i fall asleep for many games, i dont pay 240$ for 2 tickets to see jesse winchester and chris kelly play half the game..thats my reason
to anon 11:56. wake up, every canadian city does the same thing. You are just so self centered you think its only our franchise. I guarantee you montreal, toronto, edmonton, calgary, vancouver want to trade all their players when they are losing.
Exactly, and if you take the bus, you can drink :)
I am happy to say that I am 1st time season ticket holder, and as long as I can personally afford to, I will renew every year!!!!! I am a fan, and it is way better to be there in person.
As to comments about after the game parking lot madness, who cares? Whats the rush? either stay at one of the bars, or listen to the idiots on the post game show in your car :)
-KJ
I am from Calgary, and I can say that most flames fans are fareweather fans. I remember that during the period between 1995-2003, attendance was very poor at the saddledome (where they play). The dome is located in dowtown, lots of parking, multiple points of access, and public transit adjacent (c-train and buses). I remember that tickets were not even very expensive for reasonable seats. But, despite all these things, attendance was still low up until 2004, where now you can't even buy a good seat for less than $120. It basically comes down to culture of the city. I think that's it's fair to say that most Canadians are only willing to support a winning franchise. It seems like teams like the habs and the leafs will always fill seats because their is a very long and established history of success with those teams. Most other Canadian teams have not been around long enough to establish that same legacy (except maybe Edmonton). I think the important thing to remember, is that we must try to unconditionally support our franchises, because it's very possible in today's NHL that the franchise could be moved. So, not only would you lose a franchise, but you would lose a city attraction, and a venue for entertainment (games, concerts, etc). I know it's rough goings in Ottawa right now, especially after 11 years of having a dominant NHL team, but the sens will get back there one day. Would you rather they wear Ottawa's jersey when they become an elite team once more, or some other city like Kansas?
GO SENS GO!
Its pretty sad to read that post. Senators are having a good season considering that theyre being plagued by injuries and such.
Unfortunately im kinda scared to think that this is the beginning of the end for the Ottawa Senators. Attendance is low, the team isnt a contender and the fan base is very low.
Tough times in sens land.
I can deal with the traffic and the parking lot, although the parking lot issue is really completely inexcusable. It's in the middle of an old farm field and they coulnd't design a better way to get out? It's not like they were constrained by anything other than the off cow patty.
Anyway, I can deal with that, the reason I'm not able to get to more than 4 or so games I attend yearly is because of the cost of tickets. Yes someone will come on here in about three minutes saying "but there's tickets for $14!!!". Yes, there are some tickets, in the worst section of the arena against the worst teams in the league, so you're right, there are some cheap tickets. I accept that, but I'm talking about getting seats where I can actually see something, and talking about a game actually worth seeing. There's not really any point in spending $14 on tickets when you can't see 75% of the action and the Sens are mailing it in against some basement team. So if you want something decent you're looking at minimum $75 per ticket and likely $100 realistically. So for four games with myself and my girlfriend that's around $800. $800 for basically 4 hours of live enterainment is just too much for the average fan. Factor in the terrible location of the arena, weak ambiance and spending 2+ hours in your car before and after the game and it just makes using the $800 toward a TV and HD cable box too enticing. I'll still go to my few games a year but I don't blame others for cutting it out of their budget.
Read the article guys. Cyril commented on how they change the way they count paid tickets. It's not as bad as it seems.
Just read the article first before commenting, please.
12:33,
i don't see why you're getting so defensive, but if the flames ever start calling for jarome iginla to get traded or the canucks for luongo, than i will agree with your point. Alfie is the heart and soul of our team, I don't think a lot of people realize just how valuable he is to us.
Not surprised with the pathetic team that has been iced the past few years. People come on here and other blogs and rip fans who dont go to games. Im a huge Sens fan but i cant afford to go out to games, i just dont have the financial means to spend that kind of money. I have CentreIce and watch all the games at home or occasionally catch one at the bars with my buddies. Ive been to three games this year at the Bank, tickets given by my workplace. Awesome perk! The cost of concessions and admission along with parking are insane. Bringing the family to a game is even more expensive. Dont know how they do it. Anyway...
Im sure this team will be back to their old glory days in a few years. Lets hope!!!
People who complain about taking 45 minutes to get out of paking lot have not been to a game thing year I think. Average wait is now 15 minutes I believe and if you know where to park it takes 5-10 minutes max to get out of there. Situation is not nearly as bad as it was a few years back.
As for the free tickets it all really comes down to the promotion they had at the start of the year to renew the season tickets. I bought a flex 40 pack this year and received 6 bonus tickets for renewing early. So roughly 15% in bonus tickets that are classified as "free tickets given out". In the Citizen article they say the team now gives out 16% of the tickets... pretty much all due to that promotion.
As for the fans always wanting to trade the star players etc etc it's the same with every team. Go on any Habs forum and you will see 10 posts asking to trade Price and Markov. Fairweather fans are part of the game and every team has them.
We have to make Scotiabank Place the hardest building to play in!! Lets start a tradition... Keep the go sens go chants going longer... Taunt the opposing goalie... Chant Alfie!! a little more. We are a relativley new fanbase compared to toronto and montreal, so those are bad comparisons... those fans' roots were all cheering for that team. To be a Sens fan, you have to be a hockey fan, and a hockey fan had to have cheered before for some team. If they made the switch to cheer for the sens, they'll make the switch any day. Our fanbase will be very strong in 10-20 years from now.
I don't mind the parking, I don't care about where the rink is. I do care about pricing and that is the biggest factor. This platinum, gold, silver pricing scheme was just greed on the Sens part to make more money and now it's backfiring. Why would a Sens fan pay 40% more to go see the leafs or Habs when they can go to a Blue Jackets game for a 20% discount. It works out to almost a 100% price difference. YOu can go to see the Blue Jackets and Islanders or go see one Leaf game. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why Columbus was a sell out and Washington was not.
I think I need to clarify my previous statements. My disappointment is not directed to people with families/commitments who can't afford tickets to games. It would be irresponsible for you to put this ahead of your responsibilities. My anger is for the so called fans who own expensive cars and condos, single and that can afford going to several games per year. I don't know the exact number of seats at Scotiabank Place, but I'm certain that there are enough people in this city that can afford it, but just can't be bothered to show up. I work downtown until 4 everyday, and have to rush home, grab a bite to eat, hop in my car (a 2002 Hyundai), and make the trek game after game from Kilborn Ave all the way to Kanata. I don't get home until about 11 after the games and have to get up at 5:30. Yes, I'm tired when I get to work, but I'm committed to this team, through thick and thin. So please, those of us who can afford it and have nothing better to do on game night, let's get together and cheer loud and proud: GO SENS GO!!!
How can anyone come on here and compare the Sens attendance to the Leafs? Thats just rediculous!!!
The Leafs are an original six team with decades of hockey history. Which means they have millions of fans all over the country especially here in the Greater Toronto Area.
The GTA has approx. 5 to 6 million people. The leafs org. is huge. MLSE has very deep pockets. The market here alone in Toronto for the leafs just dwarfs the market in Ottawa. Toronto doesnt have to sell tickets to keep this team from making money. Ive been to a couple games at the ACC, all of the lower bowl where tickets are super expensive are all sold out to companies. A large portion of the platinum seats are all full of suits on their blackberries.
Ottawa is a small market team where the arena is built in an area thats out of the way for most of the city. I know it was built in an area where and when the tech sector was booming but it should really have been built in Ottawa proper.
Anyway, lets hope this team plays better in the coming weeks. Ill be in town for the game tonight. Sitting in section 105. All we need is to make it into the playoffs, then its a new game....Go Sens Go
Tosensfan
I am pleasantly surprised by the fact that no one has taken shots at Murray... yet. It's funny that the comment section on the article is full of people hating on Murray. I guess most people here, who actually have looked at the situation closer than: the team made the finals, Murray was brought in, we missed the playoffs. Must be Murray's fault. Have realised that that the issues we have faced, ie lack of prospects, contract issues, are as a result of Muckler's poor decisions, and not Murray's. I really do wish that the people on the article would get a clue.
As for the "true fan" debate, I'm done ranting about it. There are no "true" fans. There are fans and spectators, fans are more fun to be around, but spectators help pay the bills. If you find yourself on the wrong end of a bad spectator, as people have mentioned throughout here, you are extremely unlucky and I have to wonder why they are even at the game.
Dave
Agree on the pricing scheme being a joke (but alot of teams have it laid out that way.) I've been trying to plan my SBP debut from the other end of the province and for the money I would have to spend to drive there and get a hotel ext going to one of the subway savings games would be ideal, but the tickets are already mostly picked over for them, but plentiful for the high priced games.
For now I will be reduced to having to go watch them play Buffalo and the game in Detroit.
Lots of tickets in other cities are bought at the last minute by fans just going to the arena to see what seats/prices are left. This is not possible at SBP as you can't just wander over. It is an outing that you need to have planned. I really wish that the rink had been built closer to downtown but its not going to move. The people of Ottawa need to make a special effort to support our boys. You can't say that this is a low income city, its filled with high brow industry and government employees. I would buy seasons tickets every year if I had the money, but sad to say I'm a very poor student. People with cash need to step it up, notice all the seats in the ACC are owned by companies who give the tickets out to their employees. We need a similar corporate interest to stay afloat. Unlike other markets we can't fill the building for the season with joe nobodies buying single game tickets.
I think/hope that Melnyk and the rest of the brass at the Sens understand that to run a sports franchise in Ottawa means you will have to endure some streches like this. Ottawa is a good sports town in general, but there's not enough people with disposable income in the area to sell out during "lean times". So I hope there's no panic within the Sens front office at this. When the team is winning the fans will come, but when the team struggles (and add in the Heatley BS, the economy in general, the tough schedule with too many home games bunched together etc) the numbers are going to drop. All they need to do is tough it out as best they can - freebies, promotions, whatever. And when we get to the last quarter of the season the attendance will improve (assuming we're in playoff contention). That's something the various ownerships of the Rebel and Renegades didn't get - you simply can't expect to sell out or even come close all the time. If low attendance makes owning the team unviable, then don't try it.
I really trust that Uncle Eugene understands this so I'm not worried too much. It does kind of suck that we can't support an exciting team more, but given that a few years ago we had a team most experts predicted could win it all and also an exciting team to boot (i.e. not the Devils) - it's not surprising that the attendance is down.
If nothing else had changed (i.e. not Dany fiasco, no missed playoffs etc) then I'd be worried.
Go Sens Go
I've been to more games already this year than I went to in the past 3 seasons, and it's really disappointing to see the drop in attendance firsthand.
SBP has terrible parking, I have to go all the way from Orleans to Kanata for a game. However, I want the team to stay, so I'll continue to go to games.
People need to remember that it's a privilege to have a NHL team in our home town, not a right. If the team doesn't get ticket support in the long term, then we could lose them. Bettman won't move PHX, but he wouldn't hesitate to move OTT to somewhere like Houston if given the chance. Don't give him a reason. Ticket prices aren't that ridiculous. Go to games people, that's the bottom line. Get off your asses and go to games.
Did anyone catch how spectacular Kovie's hair looked yesterday.
Wow.
Parking is your issue - take the bus.
Prices are the issue - buy the cheap seats before they sell out.
The fans in Ottawa don't suck - we just don't have quite as many of them as they do in Toronto or Montreal etc - that's totally understandable: you can't compare to an original six team. If we still have these problems in 20 years then okay, but for a fairly young franchise this is totally normal.
Go Brodeur!!!!
There is a lot of tough realities facing the Senators.
1. We are a small market team. Ottawa is not exactly a huge city.
2. The biggest sector of earners who could afford to go to games is Government. The government is not legally allowed to buy tickets for their staff.
3. The location makes it difficult. There should be many more game buses and it should be better organized.
4. The recession has hit hard this year all around the NHL. Ottawa is suffering two-fold because we've had a lousy team the past two years in addition to the recession.
5. We don't have a huge corporate filled season ticket base.
The Ottawa Senators literally must be a playoff team to be a viable franchise. It's been that way since the very beginning. It's unfortunate, but it's a reality that will likely remain constant for as long as the franchise is in Ottawa.
The last problem is that almost every Sens game is televised either on the internet or within Ottawa. With the quality of HD television it's probably better entertainment value to watch the game on a 50 inch TV than it is to sit in the 300's.
I'm lucky enough to receive free tickets in the 100's and get a VIP parking pass. We're out of there in 5 minutes after the game. It makes it a lot better. I don't know how enticed I'd be to attend games in the 300's where you can barely see anything and you have to spend 20 minutes just getting out of the building and another 45 in the parking lot if you don't leave early. Frankly I think an HD center ice package would have more entertainment value except for playoff games and rivalry games.
People should also realize that the Sens have to compete with stalwart Leafs and Habs fans who have liked their team for decades. They come out for the Leafs and Habs games but they stay home the rest of the year because they hate the Sens.
It's tough enough having a small base of people to draw from in the city but when half of them have their loyalties tied to another franchise that's really making things difficult.
It's going to take us 50 years and some Stanley Cups before we have anything like the fan base those other franchises have.
SeanO very good point. Any time I've visited Toronto I will usually make a trip out to the Skydome (or whatever it's called) for a game. Walk up about half an hour before the game, grab great seats, and you can see thousands of other people doing the same thing. Granted it's summer so there are a lot more people out, but still look at how many people are buying tickets gameday at SBP and you can see arena location is a major issue for this team. This won't change obviously, so they need to provide incentives for people to come out there in the first place.
How emberassing! If I lived in Ottawa I would attend every Sens game but im stuck in Saskatchewan. Just goes to show you mostly every Senator fan is bandwagoner..... PATHETIC. Not to mention this team has potential this year to make a good run at Lord Stanley. Never thought i'd say this but im emberassed to be a Sens fan right now....
If I hear one more person tell me how great Leaf Fans are and that they stick together I'm gonna snap. If any of you have ever been to a Leaf game you'd know there's only about 2000 actual paying/cheering fans at the game. They sell out constantly because of the corporate sponsers and such.
I live north of TO and usually catch the Sens in Buffalo (you guys have to check that out if you can).
And yes we have a fickle fan base but guess what, every city does. Before Edmonton and Calgary had there Cup runs a few years ago it wasn't hard to get a cheap ticket.
The biggest mistake is the location, but anyways Sens Fans please don't sell us short and compare us to Leaf Fans....
Go Sens GO!!
JoeDoggs
I can't believe people are using the location of SBP, parking or the price of tickets/food/drinks as an excuse. SBP as been in the Kanata area for around 14 years that wasn't a problem when the were in the post-season every year for 10-11 years so LIVE WITH IT. Does anyone remember When the Sens played in the Civic Centre. I went there about 7 times to see them play when I was a child with my father. Let me tell you the parking was a lot worse than what they have at SBP. As for the prices of tickets, food, jerseys and drinks. You thank Bettman's stupid revenue sharing and the high salaries these hockey players are making. The only way you are going to see low prices on tickets, food, drinks and jerseys is if the salaries of players are reduced by 50% or Bettman's stupid revenue sharing is destroyed. SO LIVE WITH IT!
I think part of it is that nobody really cares about playing Minnesota - we have "less than 3500 tickets left" against Minny, but only "less than 750 tickets left" against Boston, who is a NE division rival. We have lots of Boston, Montreal, Toronto, and Pittsburgh fans, but we have about 3 Minnesota fans. I really think that's part of it.
And I live in Kanata, so I'm not complaining about SBP's location - but I would if I lived downtown. Selfishness...whatever.
I can tell you 1 thing that killing season ticket sales... 4 tickets for $99 tickets, and u get an $8 voucher for food.
This is a great deal for families, but for the regular half-season ticket holder since 1999 I am always going WTF. These seats are 1 section over from me and I pay $38 a seat and I never get any bonus or food items from the Sens but yet I've been buying tickets for 10 seasons now.
Way to benefit the occasional Sens fan and stick it to the ticket holders. I won't be renewing my 22 games next year when I can get over 14 metro games a season.. Saves me big time money.
Could the reason the attendance is down be due to the number of home games in Oct & Nov and some teams played here more than once...
With the season ticket base down.. the walk up crowd can only go to a select number of games so they pick and choose what team they want to see. I think as the season progresses and less games are at home, the attendance will pick up.
As for Toronto and the Air Canada centre.. yes all of their tickets are sold.. but have you seen the empty seats?? those people (or should I say corporate people) may have purchased the tickets.. but they aren't using them. I guess MLSE is still getting their money.. but it must be nice to spend that amount of money on a ticket and not use it...
MELNYK IS A BAD OWNER.
That's where the buck starts and stops.
I think that it's a good thing that attendance is falling. If the team sucks, attendance should fall.
It keeps the management team honest. Now, it's up to the management team to get their act together.
Fire Murray, Eugene. Get a real GM.
Location Location Location
guys if you have a blackberry go to nhl.com , on it it says we beat minny 4 to 3 in OT , toronto beat boston 6-4, and the canadiens win in shootout ????WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON????
I hate to say I told you so...but I did, tell, you, so. I've seen this happening all the way from out here in Vancouver.
Just so you know, I am volunteering my time to intern with the Sens to help remedy this tragic state of affairs over the Christmas break.
FORGET the location issue. Unless you think it's at all plausible to have them build a new rink downtown, we've got to figure out other ways:
-allow for more ease regarding parking access.
-more buses.
-more promotions with bars, and have the Sens nominally subsidize the buses themselves.
-less restrictions for fans to yell and cheer at the games! No one wants to get shushed when they cheer. That's just crazy.
-cater more to young professionals, and less on growing future fans. I love kids too, but when I see kids cheering all the time at the games, it makes me wonder if I'd feel comfortable drinking two beers and cheering sitting beside them at the game. It's the impression that it makes, is what I'm saying here.
-MAKE PURCHASING TICKETS EASIER ON THE WEBSITE!!! How about a big banner on the website? banner's for ticket sales on websites and webblogs (note to SC*). Just go to the Sens website and see how many prompts it takes to get to ticket sales.
OK - I'm a HUGE fan in Vancouver. I'll be at the MTL game. SC, I've been worried about this for ever. If we take our Sens for granted, then we could lose them. WE aren't so far removed from that as a possibility, and there's no reason to believe it won't happen again.
Thanks,
Nick,
Scotia Bank Place was built in Kanata because the city of Ottawa was fighting them to prevent them from building it in Ottawa. Kanata, not part of Ottawa at the time, were glad to have the arena built in their city.
So i guess we can thank the lovely city of ottawa counsellors for having the arena built so far west
if you think about it, a sellout at sbp means that one in every ~40-45 people in ottawa is at a sold out game (860K / 19 K). You could thrown in another 200K for gatineau but then again, 3/4 of the people there are habs fans. What about leaf fans in Ottawa? Let's face it, when half the crowd cheers for the other team when leafs or habs are in town, those people don't drive in from Toronto or Montreal, they already live here.
What are the proportions for sellouts in toronto? 4 million / 18500 ~ one out of ever 215 person is at a sold out game in toronto. What about montreal? one in 130 people...
Then consider the location of the arena, the pathetic excuse for a transit system ottawa has and parking and you can further see why Ottawa doesn't draw as well.
Is parking bad? Absolutely. Used to go to about a dozen games peer year. If you're single you can go for a couple of beers after the game while the parking lot clears. With a couple of tired screaming young children in the back seat while you're waiting for at least 45 minutes to drive through less than 400 meters of gridlock? Not so easy. Paying $11 dollars to park in the middle of nowhere for that "privilege" makes it inexcusable.
Public transit? has anyone who is suggesting to take a bus to sbp tried it? it blows. try taking a subway to the ACC or to the bell center and you'll see what I mean.
There are a lot of reasons why the sens don't draw as well as they should, and many of those don't have to do with the quality of sports fans in this city. The team is working at addressing at least some of those issues but they're not helping themselves with ticket prices and outrageous concession prices.
Attendance is down cause Ottawa has until recently played the most amount of home games then anyone in the league....
It's that simple, when you are playing 3 home games a week for 2-3 weeks in a row and then team is not playing great what do you expect.
Common now it's that simple.
did anyone here actually read the article and what Cyril Leeder had to say about the numbers?
According to him the NHL is calculating the numbers differently in this report compared to their report from last year at this time.
Last year the 2 comp tickets given to Season ticket holders were counted as tickets sold....This year those tickets are counted as "free" tickets. Not only that but This year each Season ticket holder received SIX (6) bonus tickets compared to last years 2.
Not only that, I think some people have it in their heads that this report claims that the SENS have the 3rd lowest attendance/paid attendance.
That's NOT what it says. It's says compared to last season at this time (using the new math for this years report) Ottawa is giving away more tickets than last year and that the they have the 3rd largest DROP in paid attendance.
The new math in this report claims that the Ottawa Senators average something like 14 or 15 thousand paid ticket attendance per game SO FAR THIS YEAR.
Last I checked 14,000 paid tickets per game, isn't dire straits and isn't the community not supporting the team.
I think given the economic times and the relatively small community (compared to TO and MTL, etc) the Sens and their fans are doing rather well.
Id have to mirror the viewpoint that the location is absolutely atrocious. Shouldve kept it at the civic centre and put some money into a downtown arena. GO KANATA SENATORS
you cant compare the skydome to an NHL arena when you have 50,000 seats to select from
The ticket prices are still high.. would they rather make x ammount of money and have half the attendance at full price, or lower the prices and have a full or closer to full SB. If the tickets were to be lowered im sure a lot more people would venture the drive to kanata and the consession stands would make more money too... But I also agree that the fans in Ottawa are "band-wagoners" they only want to cheer for the team when we're winning games.. WTF!! Support your team, u you know that Bettman would love nothing more than to take another team out of Canada!! Lets not give him a reason to.
K
As a reminder for poeple wondering why SBP is where it is, you should read Bruce Firestone's explanation:
http://www.eqjournalblog.com/?p=261
-KJ
4 decent tickets, parking, some hot dogs for the kids and a couple of beers for mom and dad, I'm out $300-400 for the evening. I don't care about all other factors (team record, star players, location, etc...), price is what keeps me away.
I family of 4 should be able to go to 2-3 games for this price.
Oh ya, the parking situation is much, much better. On average, I can get out of the lot in 15 minutes.
Traffic is also getting better with the expansion of the 417.
Click here for the most in-depth breakdown of tonight's Wild/Sens game anywhere on the internet.
Let's go Wild!!! :)
It's amazing how much people think Ottawa's parking situation is different than any other city. I don't know how people constantly forget that they're moving out 16-18K people in 1 hour.
Does everyone think that you can get out of the ACC and the Bell Centre and magically be home in 5 minutes? Imagine the ride that people back home from Scarborough or Laval... they're home around midnight! Of course, they can park 20+ blocks away from the rink and hoof it to the game. I bet they enjoy that walk in January!
Mass transit? We have it. Ample parking spots? We have it. Get a group of your friends are rent a limo for 10-20 each! Or buy your tickets from Local Heroes and take their bus and enjoy a meal before the game! You get discounted tickets and a ride to the game.
The building is going to be in Kanata for another 20 years... stop banging your head against the wall because it's not going to change anytime soon.
we have good smart fans in Ottawa a little boring yes but good fans. Its all in the numbers. Tronto 5,000.000 Mtl 3,800.000 Ottawa 90.000. and a good thing about this market you can never never ice a loser. thats why it not a good place for BM, we lose him the fans will come back and we could use an idenity are we the fastest strongest, no real stars on our team.
The excuses in here are pathetic. The Oilers haven't made the playoffs in the last 2 seasons and they always sell out games here. Calgary always sells out, every other team in Canada pretty well sells out and you bitch fans can't afford to go to a game in Ottawa because of the recession? The recession is everywhere, in case you hadn't noticed... so it's no excuse.
In Ottawa, it's probably one of the least expensive games in Canada to go to, and people bitch and whine about our team, or why they can't afford tickets. PATHETIC.
As a Senators fan from Edmonton, if you assholes lose my team because you're too busy being stuck up snobs to worry about being fans, I'll never forgive you for it.
Stop making excuses and get your asses in the seats. We have an exciting team, with a lot of potential and a lot of good prospects coming along. Enjoy it and support a team that deserves the support.
I know what Kovalev did was stupid. It is so funny that the refs are letting the wild get away with some cheap shots. What a shocker one of the wild forwards trips one of our player. No penalty called on the play. Time for the Sens to file a complaint to NHL. Guess the refs still haven't gotten message when it comes to rules of hockey.
true this city and Ontario is very hard on familys, did u know in Quebec they have $7.00 a day daycare free dental for kids $300 per month per kid extra. I never would bring my kids to games in Ottawa and just because i cannot aford it.
I agree 100% with Harmon. It's the city's culture. Ottawa has a culture of entitlement that is the result of all the public sector employees.
The real reason that scotiabank place is in Kanata is as follows.
Firestone and co purchased farm land in Kanata. They lobbied to have it rezoned as commercial. Upon getting it rezoned they sold enough land to pay for a franchise (50 million) with the leftover land to be used to build an arena.
We should feel lucky not burdened to have this amazing team and arena.
Man Kuba sucks. On the ice for every goal the past two games. Takes a penalty cause he is too slow.
Seriously though folks, we need to do all that we can to nip this small issue in the bud before it becomes a big issue.
We're definitely down in attendance, but it can be fixed. When the Senators have a home game, instead of sitting at home on your rear ends, call up your buddies and ask a few of them to go to the game. Sometimes, it just takes one person with a bit of initiative to spark the whole thing. I figure I could round up 3 friends, we'll hop on the bus, get some tickets in the cheap seats, pre-drink, have a couple beers at the game. If the night costs me $60 total, I don't care. I'd spend that much or more taking my wife on a date, and I'd rather be at a hockey game anyways.
Bottom line, you don't have to be a Senators fan to fix this. You just have to be a fan of the NHL. Even if you hate the Senators, go out to the games. Keeping this team in town allows you to see your favorite team every so often, so do your part in keeping them here.
If the Senators leave Ottawa, the city will NEVER have another team, you can count on that. So, everything must be done to keep the team here. I just bought tix for the Colorado game, and I'm going to see if a couple of friends want to go to the Islanders game on New Years. If 200 people do the same thing that I'm doing, and bring 2 friends each, well we just bumped the attendance for each of those games up by 600 people. That's pretty good, but that's what it's going to take. Real fans need to take the initiative to bring the casual fans out, that's all there is to it. Less talk, do something about it, there's your solution.
Also, keep in mind that the team has been really good this year at home! No one can accuse them of taking nights off, this is a team that works hard every shift, and the games are pretty great. They're even better live, so get your collective asses off the couch and let's get out there.
Here's an idea. We should start a SensChirp section at the arena. All committed posters here will buy tickets in the same section, invite your friends, we'll all show up and be as rowdy and annoying as we want to be, and hopefully we'll be able to carry that through the rest of the arena. You have to start somewhere, right?
I agree with C. It's too much money for a lot people, period. What's worse, AFTER making the commitment to get out there is the feeling of getting fleeced each and every time you go to purchase something. And let me get this straight, all I have to do is be a season ticket holder for 5 years to get a break on my parking??? Chances are if you have the bread to buy seasons tickets for 5 years, you can afford the parking. The Sens missed a golden opportunity to offer something meaningful to bring new or former buyers back into the building.Drop the prices on tickets by a minimum 5 percent across the board, shave 3-5 bucks off parking, and make it reasonable to buy a beverage and a snack. Then you'll have your sellouts.
@ black terror... your wife isn't reading this heh? lol
I for one would love to go see more games! But since i live in the Netherlands it's kinda difficult for me to attend them :(
I did go november 2008 and had a blast. Even getting out of the parking lot didn't take that long. And if you get low prized seats and drive there with a few friends, the costs of parking can be divided to. Didn't try taking a bus there cause my friends warned me about that.
Anyways... i don't get why people would not go to games anymore. They are your team, right?
Kim
Info are you serious with that comment? Those markets are not comparable at all. Not only that but Ottawa has a mass of public sector employees who's employers are not legally allowed to buy them tickets even as rewards or incentives or giveaways. Which is how those other Canadian teams sell out by the way. Corporate money.
The other reality is that both those teams have existed much longer and have much bigger fan bases. The majority of people living in Ottawa who are in the prime earners group between 35-65 were hardcore Leaf or Hab fans and haven't changed their stripes.
There's a lot of issues for a small market team like Ottawa. Taking one simple statement about the recession and pretending all the markets are comparable is beyond idiotic. Do the world a favour and think before you speak next time.
Quick question to some of the posters. I see one of the reasons for not going to the game being the price of concession stand foods and drinks.
If you truly cannot afford the extra price of purchasing a beer and food, don't purchase it. In fact, many of the fine eating establishments in the city offer a great deal on a ticket, bus to and from the game, and a meal before or after. Why not take them up on that?
Let's get out to the games. I'm not worried about this team being moved because of the loss of attendance. I know it will be back. As for it being the location and parking I don't buy it at all. They were selling out games two years ago and, as far as I remember, the building hasn't moved and the parking has only gotten better due to better planning.
Get out of your seats at home and head out to a game. There really is nothing like being at the live event.
For those who truly cannot afford it, I do feel for you. Keep cheering for them any way you can.
GO SENS GO!
kgv
The Citizen writes a story about attendance being down, and the fans on this board are debating the departure of the team? Next thing, you'll be overreacting by saying tank the season because of a loss, or set up the parade route because of a win....Oh,wait....nevermind. As you were.
The little Commissioner better be as die-hard against a Canadian team going anywhere as he is propping up a dozen US based teams that are failing miserably.
cp
The Black Terror,
Hey I think you got the right idea.
I am more than willing to lead a SensChirp section, if we get a good enough following.
Who's in??
I'd be up for a few games.
For the guys complainig about prices, are you aware that you can get a family pack in the 300 section? 4 tickets, 4 hotdogs, and 4 pops...all for $100. Now, if you can't afford $25.00 per ticket ...
You just want to complain, and aren't interested in solutions.
KJ
I am A Huge Sens fan living in Kingston & have had a flex 40 pack since the year post lockout~but have been driving up regularly since I moved here from Ottawa 10 years ago. I have NEVER had to wait more than 10 min to get out of the parking lot after a game & I DON'T leave in the middle of the 3rd (like I notice alot of people do), I am there right to the end. WHY? Cause I am a fan, in good times & bad.
I don't remember parking,location of SBP & food prices being such an issue for people during all those great playoff runs & sellout seasons!So why now? I believe the season ticket #'s are down from last year & I am hoping its not because they missed the playoffs for one year (cuz then we can truly be classified as fairweather!)Maybe #15 had more to do with it than we think- he did have a large fan base.
I agree with the posts urging people who have difficulty with the parking to take advantage of the shuttles offered by Jack Astors,East Side's,Local Heroes, Darcy McGees etc...like they said u can get a meal (probably equivalent $ to hotdogs & drinks @SBP) & free ride. Do u honestly think its any cheaper at ACC or the Bell centre-but that doesnt seem to stop them! Be proud of our team & support them thru the thick & thin-there's nothing WORSE than being drowned out by the visiting teams OBNOXIOUS fans! Time to start being OBNOXIOUS & TAKE BACK OUR BUILDING!! GO SENS GO!!
Going to a game is an expensive night.
Obviously you have to prioritize.
There are cheap seats and a lot of restaurant/bars do have decent packages to get you to/from the game.
Maybe you'll see the Blue Jackets or another dud team, but it's still an NHL game.
I do think that parking and concessions are ridiculously overpriced. The argument that "yeah but it's the same everywhere else" is lame. I know it is true, but it is still lame.
The mass transit argment is weak as well. The 400 buses can't compare to taking a subway right to the game. The fact that in Montreal or Toronto you meet for dinner/drinks, go to a game, then go out after all within a few blocks of the building makes a huge difference.
Even though the SBP is in Kanata, it is still far from everything. It's not walking distance to anywhere. Even Terry Fox Dr. is a 20-30 minute walk away.
They need to make the place more accessable. Have a bus that goes there regularly, or have shuttles to Kanata Centrum.
Try getting to the building any time there is no event.
I was a half season ticket holder for 3 years, this year I didn't renew because it was getting too expensive.
Year 1:
Season ticket gift - jersey
Service from ticket rep - average, horrible accounting practices dealing with refunds on unused playoff tickets
Year 2:
season ticket holder gift - picture (not framed)
Service from ticket rep - worse than the year before, Organization starting selling some individual game tickets for less than season ticket holders paid
Year 3:
season ticket holder gift - scarf
service: non existent
Bottom line the organization screwed itself over by not understanding that this is a huge service oriented industry, you can't treat your customers like crap at any time. When times were good they decided to increase prices and cut services, this alienated the fans who paid good money to be a part of something.
I know season ticket holders this year are getting amazing service from their ticket reps, it looks like the organization finally smartened up because they got desperate.
Its tough to justify paying a few grand per year when the team gives better deals to single game tickets. The main problem is management, from operations to marketing. Until they complete an overhaul expect more attendance drops.
JohnnyHolmes, the 163 goes to Scotiabank Place every day. Besides, why would you want to go there when there are no events??? The Sens store have outlets at Place d'Orleans and Rideau Center...
Did anyone notice during the CBC intermission last night that they brought up a list of about 20-25 possible forwards to be on team Canada and Mike Fisher wasn't even included on this list. The disrespect and ignorance that tv station shows the Senators on a consistent basis is starting to piss me off. Someone clearly did that on purpose because I for one think Fisher will be on that team and i know im not the only one who is thinking that. the guys from tsn have been mentioning him as well as many other analysts. I hate to be that guy grumbling about something that seems like not much of a big deal, but it seems this kinda stuff happens all the time over the years, it took ottawa making the finals in '07 before they finally HAD to talk about them and acknowledge them that year....oh well i guess
Merry Christmas Sens fans
Okay, but with all due respect to the Ottawa fans, stop whining about parking. In most NHL outside of the East Coast teams in States this is a common problem. I'm from Detroit and we've been putting up with it forever. There is no public transporation in Detroit. To attend a game at the Joe you pretty much have to plan on sitting in the parking garage any where from 20-45 minutes after the game. And the parking isn't cheap, it's now up to $15 a game. This isn't just a hockey thing, every sporting even in Detroit is like this. You pay $20 to park to see the Tigers and the Lions as well.
It's part of the price you pay to see a game, sorta like the $8.50 beers and the $3.00 hot dogs. My big complaint is the owners don't count this money in with their revenue because it's generally hidden under different companies they own. Again in Detroit, it's all under Olympia Management instead of the Detroit Red Wings, so the owners complain they don't make money when in the end it'all goes back to the same pocket.
I was talking to a friend about this last night over our usual Saturday poker night (watched the game on TV, was nice) and those who said it was apathy are right, to a point.
I point blank asked him (he's a Rangers fan from in 70s):
"The Senators are playing well, why are they short 3,000 fans per game?"
His answer was astoundingly simple:
"They're expected to win. They're winning, no reason to cheer them on and go there if they do their jobs right."
Puzzled, I asked him to elaborate:
"Listen, if you're going to haul ass to Scotiabank Place, get parking, you're going to be a little ornery and you'll want something to complain about. No one goes out there to see the Senators. They go to see the visiting team and the Wild isn't that exciting a draw . It's more fun when they struggle so we can boo them and complain about them."
Add to that what Leeder said, that the team is on stable footing, lots of capital. Who needs to go anymore? Whether there are 19K or 12K, the team will be here in 20-30 years. Just pick a game you like, go every now and then and watch the rest on HDTV under the blankets with your soda and snacks...
Gregory.
Hey SC,
I think it would be a great idea to get a bunch of SensChirp fans to all get together at a predetermined game. I live in Toronto and I would be SO stoked to get together with some REAL sens fans. Not these apathetic civilians who just come to boo their own team.
I and at least 3 of my friends would be more than happy to travel to Ottawa to see a game!
I dont think it would be a good idea to make more than 1 senschirp game permonth. We should start off slow, you should put up a poll saying something like "When should the next SC game be?" and people will choose what team they would MOST want to see. That way you have an idea of how many people are willing to come out.
If you did online registration through paypal then that would be a good idea too. instead of just sitting on your hands and hoping that thousands of us will come out, and only a few hundred actually show up. I dunno, im not much of a business guy but i have a lot of experience in marketing :D
GO SENS GO!!
-Carlos
That's an interesting idea Carlos.
Maybe I'll post something about it tomorrow and see what kind of feedback I get.
Chirp, make sure it's in section 328. That's where I sit :o)
Info are you serious with that comment? Those markets are not comparable at all. Not only that but Ottawa has a mass of public sector employees who's employers are not legally allowed to buy them tickets even as rewards or incentives or giveaways. Which is how those other Canadian teams sell out by the way. Corporate money.
The other reality is that both those teams have existed much longer and have much bigger fan bases. The majority of people living in Ottawa who are in the prime earners group between 35-65 were hardcore Leaf or Hab fans and haven't changed their stripes.
There's a lot of issues for a small market team like Ottawa. Taking one simple statement about the recession and pretending all the markets are comparable is beyond idiotic. Do the world a favour and think before you speak next time.
==================================
Why is it, that you call Ottawa a small market team and how is it that SBP sold out most of the last 2 seasons and now all of the sudden there is a huge dive. If most of the jobs are public sector then those people can easily afford to go to a game. The public sector is one of the most well paid sectors in our country.
If you compared what a government worker is paid to what I'm paid for the same amount of education and technical expertise, a government worker is earning far more than me.
Not to mention the cost of living, in Alberta and in Toronto, the rents, mortgages and probably even utilities are far higher than in Ottawa. Both Alberta franchises and Toronto sell out regularly, as does Vancouver, who proved they cannot support a Basketball team, but definitely will support a CFL team and an NHL team, which Ottawa fails to do.
The recession has hit Alberta hard, as hard as anywhere else and yet we don't have the issues Ottawa has with either of Alberta's teams. In comparison... Calgary is 3 hours away from Edmonton and I'd say Montreal is probably near the same distance from Ottawa... Montreal sells out their games and Ottawa doesn't.
The Senators have been apart of Ottawa for close to 18 years now, that is long enough to build up a strong fan base in a Canadian market. When Ottawa is the perennial cup contender, there is no issue with them selling out 80% of the time, even into last year... there wasn't an issue. It proves just how much the Ottawa fans like to get on and off the Bandwagon.
It's nothing to do with finances.
There'll always be an excuse concession prices, parking, too expensive, bad location, bad schedule, blah blah blah blah.
My friends and I (all married and each of us with at least two kids)jumped on board on Bryden's last do it or else ticket drive. We're up in the 300's and with two season seats plus parking. The Senators have a payment plan that allows you to pay over 10 months. That works out to be $80 a month for two seats to see NHL hockey live. Payment comes out the first of every month. What's so difficult about that?
You tell me you can't afford that a month and you are honest then fine, but I think the vast majority of people in Ottawa can afford that.
Concessions too high don't buy them.
Tickets too high don't sit on the glass.
Parking is outstanding this year so anyone bellyaching about it is basing it on previous years experience. They have police officers there after the games now too directing traffic and cones set up to prevent cars from cutting over 5 lanes and screwing up everyone else.
Location, yes it's far away for our Hull and Orleans residents but is that reason enough to not support the team by showing up to a couple games a year?
Crappy team for two years? Seriously, did you people actually write that? What about 1967 people? They've sucked since then and they support their team. MTL has had no success since 93 and they are full?
Stop the excuses and do some research the deals are there to be had at very affordable prices.
GO SENS GO!!!!!
Why couldn't they just build a two-lane on-ramp to the 417 straight from the SBP parking lot?? Sure, it would costs a bit but traffic would drastically reduce.
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