I've had the weekend to think it over but I still can't make sense of the decision to bring up Erik Karlsson and send down Brian Lee.
I understand the theory that Karlsson is a "Murray Guy" while Lee is a left over from the Muckler era but I really felt like Lee had earned his spot on the NHL roster the last little while. More importantly, I just don't think the 2008 first round pick is ready.
If they think that 10 games in the AHL is going to cure all that ails the underaged and undersized Karlsson, they are kidding themselves. With his appearance against the Bruins, the Senators have triggered a year in his contract and for what?
What happens when Volchenkov is ready to return? That could happen as early as tomorrow. Is Karlsson a healthy scratch? Or do they scratch one of Campoli or Picard over Karlsson?
There's no doubt Erik Karlsson is a blue chip prospect. He's going to be a terrific NHL defenceman one day. I just don't think that day is now.
The only way this move makes sense to me is if it's a precursor to another move. The Senators are out on the West Coast now and its possible Murray has a potential deal he's sitting on. Perhaps one that involves Brian Lee...
The rumours with the Hawks have gone silent since last weekend but you'd think a two way contract like Brian Lee's would make a lot of sense for Chicago. Purely speculation on my part though.
But if this really is just a simple demotion/promotion then I think its a mistake for the organization. Karlsson just doesn't look ready and by demoting Lee they are alienating a player that has taken great strides over the last season.
Just my opinion though...
74 comments:
You know what - the deal I think he's sitting on involves Volchenkov- so he's waiting to get the green light from the doctor's. The other tema probably doesn't want to part with their integral part till Volchenkov can join them.
Chicago wants Volchenkov - who wouldn't. Ottawa will have their defensive stopper for years to come with Cowen.
I'm anxious to see whats up also - cuz calling him up made no sense to me either.
Lee + SJ 2nd for Barker.
I agree with all youve said except for Lee deserving a roster spot..
he has a weak shot, he gives up the puck, and just isnt strong enough. He reminds me of a young Wade Redden (thats a bad thing, VERY bad thing).
But like you said, hopefully Murray is sitting on a deal, which is why he made this move.. if not, then Murray has some issues.
How many games will it take for him to call up Jared Cowan? haha, jk
On a side note, lets hope the Sens go headhunting in SJ tomorrow.. keep your head up Heater, cuz you may not have one after tomorrows game!
GO SENS GO!!! (win or lose)
There has to be some kind of deal in the works. This move just does not make sense otherwise. Murray is not an idiot. He would not waste a year of Karlsson's eligibility for nothing. If he has, we should be afraid....very afraid!!!
Let's hope there's a Barker or Seabrook in the Sens' near future.
I think Lee has been alot better than Campoli and Picard. Yes picard has had a few points the last couple of games which has made alot of people forget about his gaffs. Its not only his gaffs but the fact then when he is on the ice the play is usually in the ottawa end being cycled around. Lee was doing very well defensively and the offense with come with more NHL experience. I think once Volch is bach Lee should get time with Kuba on the second pairing and have karlsson in bingo...but thats obviously not going to happen.
hes better than campoli already... if next year cowen is ready i dont think its smart to have two rookies on the back end... lee isnt getting much better but hes not getting worse at the same time. swap him with a team he has a better chance of becoming a full-time nhl guy. no point in keeping him to be our number 5-6 guy 4 years down the road.
Remember that this only wastes a year of Karlsson's Rookie Contract. The Sens won't burn a year of his FA eligibility so long as Erik plays less than 40 games.
Chris K
Even if a young Wade Redden was bad look at how he developped. For awhile in Ottawa, he was always one of our top point getting defeceman, if Lee evolved to the level Redden played for awhile, I certainly wouldn't complain.
I don't think Volchenkov is being moved, I don't think it is a trade at all. Why would Murray be sitting on a trade when going out west. Chicago to Ottawa is a lot shorter flight than Chicago to LA/SJ/ANA.
Personally I think it's the Sens wanting Karlsson to learn to play north american hockey at the NHL level and if he struggles, that's part of being a rookie. Drew Doughty and Erik Johnson weren't very impressive in their rookie campaigns; hell even Hedman isn't spectacular yet. Defenceman take time to develop.
I wish it was a trade, but I'm not feeling it. Lets concentrate on tomorrows game!!!
GO SENS GO!!!
While Brian Lee has made improvement, I wouldn't say he is any farther along than Karlsson is right now.
Karlsson looked fantastic in camp, playing with Kuba. At the pre-season Boston game, Karlsson had 7 shots.
I think Karlsson needs to be with a player who he can look to for support, and someone who he has enough confidence in, to leave so that he can go create a play.
But there is definitely a deal in the works, IMO. I think that Frolov is on his way over, possibly for Lee, SJ 2nd Pick and maybe someone like Jim O'Brien.
I agree with Chirp and posters, that something has to be up. There is no logic behind this move, especially at a time when the team is rolling.
should be interesting to see what happens, especially since there doesn't seem to be any rumblings of a trade.
Well SensChirp,
Although you have a strong argument for Lee, and a seemingly weak one for Karlsson, I truly
believe, that there is no trade in this move whatsoever!!
I like Brian Lee a lot, but Erik Karlsson has tremendous potential as a top 6 defenseman, and he needs to be challenged in the NHL, rather than groomed in AHL !!
Once Anton is back ,we can see the 3 tandem pairings of :
Volchenkov- Phillips
Kuba - Karlsson
Picard - Carkner
Campoli as spare !!
Karlsson will work well with Kuba, learn a whole lot more as a Senator, and can be used on Power Play, to add more punch to our lagging and sometimes ineffective Power Play !!
Just my opinion, for what I see
as an improvement to our defense brigade, rather than going after Secord, Sopel, or any other seasoned defenseman who might be available!
It's just like an organization looking at promoting from within, rather than hiring from the outside market !!
Robert Cyr
Agree with the comments above. Something has to be up. I'm not so sure it is with Lee though as if Murray was only waiting a game or 2until Volchenkov was back,couldn't he just have waited to pull the trade with Lee or brought another d-man up for a game or two like he did with Keller. Only time will tell I guess. I like Murray and would be surprised if there is not more to the story...
Is it possible that when the sens sent Karlsson down back in October that they told him/made a deal with him that he'd only be in Bingo for a month so that he wouldn't return to Sweden? I know it may be far fetched but just a thought.
I just saw this on GMhockey and it would be nice if its true.
Still trying to get better information about it but I've talked to a few people that have heard similiar rumours.
The basis of the potential trade seems to be Lee, OTT 2nd 2010 and a roster player (winchester and shannon have been mentioned) for Filatov and an AHL player
Seems unlikely but i would not complain about that trade at all.
If Volch is traded, we win. We get great value back and best of all, Chicago will not have the cap space to resign him so we will. WIN!
1) There is no guarantee that Lee will feel alienated by the demotion. It seems like he's been around forever, but he's still quite young. We'll have to wait to pass judgment on how he reacts UNTIL he reacts.
2) If Clouston and Murray feel that the team is better with Karlsson on the ice instead of Lee, then that's the catalyst. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm just saying that this is their team to run, and obviously this move was not made without careful analysis.
3) I do believe that there is a trade coming down the pipe. However, I do NOT believe that it will involve Volchenkov. Any combination of Lee/Picard/Campoli are probably expendable in the team's eyes. Any trade, I suspect, would involve one or more of these three. I would not expect it to be a blockbuster, but I would expect it to be for a roster player. Be real here. Volchenkov is arguably the most important d-man that the Senators have, they won't trade him unless the return exceeds his value. I don't think there is a team out there who would be willing to do that at this point, so it's a no-go in my mind. Anyways, it's just some anon who keeps talking about Volchenkov, but I wanted to nip it back before rumours get started. Heck, I could end up being wrong, but I'm probably not.
People pushing Campoli out of the 6 defencemen are nuts!
even if there was a trade SC, Karlsson's play in the bruins game again showed that he is lacking defensive skills, is a scared rat out there, is clearly undersized for NHL play. is too jittery (because there are other undersized NHL defensemen who use their speed and skill to make up for size). he is just not ready. and now they are eating a year on his contract only to watch him play below-AHL caliber hockey in the NHL and eat up a roster spot on this team which I think Lee more than deserves.
just a bonehead move at every level. The senators top brass needs to get their head out of their sand pit and stop acting like ostriches. They keep thinking this guy is Drew Doughty. Karlsson is nowhere close to Doughty. for all the offensive flair they have touted him for, I have seen ZERO yet. even when its been plain simple and easy for him to make an offensive play, he just is not there.
this is typical Brian Murray though, even if Melnyk has no hand in this move. you look at the contract he gave to Kelly and you will understand what I mean. OR the contract he gave Emery. OR the campoli trade which with every game clicking by looks more and more atrocious since Picard has outshown Campoli by a LONG SHOT NOW. both offensively and defensively, picard has shown up.
Karlsson needs to spend his year in the AHL. they need to stop fucking baby-ing this guy. its pathetic.
bah. atleast Lee had a nasty edge to his game and would bring down a guy with a cheap shot once in a while and take a penalty. this guy runs the other way when there is a checker coming his way.
and then there is C.Clouston with his funny decisions from time to time.
You're right. The deal makes little to no sense unless a deal comes along. Lee is, at this point and time, a better player in the roster than Karlsson is, at least in my eyes, and the team was doing well with him in. No reason to mess up that chemistry when the team is vying for a playoff spot.
I have no connections to insiders or anything like that, but it really seems like a trade of one of the defencemen on the team is coming. It'll be interesting to find out if that happens, and then who is traded (Lee, Picard, Campoli, etc), and who is received (forward, defenceman, pick, etc).
They've been doing pretty well without Volchenkov - Cowen will be there next yaer. So your D and goaltending won't cost you a fortune. Volchenkov is another crushing hit from really hurting himself(don't get me wrong I love the guy) - but if him and a couple young forwards get me Sharp and Barker - I say go for it! Chicago wants him desperately - we'll meet the Hawks in the Finals.
yea trade volchenkov and then have fun watching this team's gradually nosediving penalty kill disappear altogether. the Kuba Phillips d-pairing is suspect down to the core. if you watch closely the plays that happen on their shifts, you will realize that the two of them have miscommunication going on more than whats acceptable and are getting by purely because of their own individual assets.
as for people mentioning that 2nd rounder. BM told the Sun today that he looks at the 2nd rounder as the main deal breaker in the Heatley trade and is looking to turn that pick into a good prospect. no idea who he has in mind in the second round, let alone the fact that its the first time i have heard a GM rave about a 2nd round pick 8 months before actually MAKING THE PICK. 2nd ROUND?!!! :S.
plus, cut the volchenkov trading rumors. the guy is only 27, but plays like an experienced NHL veteran and is just absolutely valulable to this team. what he brings to this team, noone in the whole damn league brings that to their respective teams. trading him at this point will always be a crap trade for the senators. because they would be opening one hole while plugging the other on this team. that will always be the case with anton, unless he becomes utterly useless.
and plus, we dont need to trade volchenkov to rip chicago in a trade haha.
alas. i just dont see any merit in keeping karlsson up. we need to win games in a tough eastern conference and to play a guy who is right now bringing nothing to the team is just mindboggling.
To Anoyn at 12:54 - be afraid, very afraid, because Murray IS INFACT AN IDIOT! Every GM knows it too.
Anoyn at 1:14pm - good post. This move makes ZERO sense and will prob end up hurting EK's development. Another bonehead move by a bonehead GM.
I remember a week or so ago Brian Murray was on Hockey Central at Noon and one thing he said was that he had a few conversations for trades about guys who aren't as productive as they should be, but was not prepared to make any moves until we find out about younger guys.
Perhaps this Lee/Karlsson swap is in preparation of a trade, perhaps Murray is seeing if Karlsson can replace a player currently on the roster that he might have a deal in place with?
Just a guess...
I am most concern about Karlsson's size/weight. He is listed as 5'11, 175 lbs.
Of 885 players who played last year, only 22 weighed 175 lbs or less (nhl.com).
Only three D weighed 180 lbs or less (Cory Murphy 175, Tobias Enstrom 180 and Alex Goligoski 180).
Unless they plan on using the TB-Stamkos approach of skipping games to allow weight training time,I am not sure that calling Karlsson up is a good decision.
PL
I bet Karlsson camp threatened to go back to Sweden. No sources or anything...Just a hunch.
I dont think Lee deserves a spot at all... but I do agree that he should be up over karlsson... the way I see it, it sounds like they have decided that karlsson is going to be the back and forth guy this year with Campoli and Picard having off and on years and Lee is the odd man out that will most likley end up traded.
I'm really lost for words as well with respect to Lee/Karlsson. I hold my breath everytime Karlsson is on the ice and I'm sure he is holding his as well. As for Volchenkov, I know he is Heart and Soul however there is no way we can afford to pay him in the 4 mil range as many have suggested his value. I think we should trade him and get what we can for him. We lost out on Charra,/Redden, we are in retooling stage and will be better off in a few years when the contracts of Cheechoo and Kovie are up.
I'd like to think a trade's coming - Filatov or Barker would look great in a Sens uniform - but could it be that Murray's called Karlsson up to get the PP going? EK has 11 pts in 12 games in Bingo, and as small and as suspect as he is in his own end, he's good enough to man the point on the second PP unit, which is better than we can say for Lee.
Also carrying an extra D is not exactly far-fetched when you're going on a long western road-trip. Both Carkner and Picard got banged up in Jersey and Volchie's coming off an injury.
Looks like I'm in the minority that doesn't think Brian Lee has done enough to stay on the roster. Sure, this guy is only 22, and was touted as a great puck moving defenseman. But here's the rub: in 66 NHL games, and 82 AHL games, he hasn't shown it.
I think people are being generous in your assessment of Brian Lee. He can move the puck in so far as he can skate with the puck on his stick, and can direct the puck to other players in a "pass" like motion, but I've never seen him rush the puck out of the defensive zone. I've never seen him trouble forecheckers with his stick handling or speed. I've never seen him disrupt a trap with a clever pass, or a deke and burst of speed. I've never seen him as a shooting threat on the powerplay, or as a capable passer on the PP. Karlsson has shown that he can do all of these things in just a handful of games. Of course he needs work, especially in defensive zone coverage, but he's improving at a rate Brian Lee has never achieved. Heck, Brian Lee still needs to work in the defensive zone.
I wish that Brian Lee was a puck moving defenseman. To my eye though, he's a defenseman who will make an early pass without trying to create space for the forwards, and who's afraid to make a mistake. He doesn't seem very comfortable with the puck on his stick. Since he can be sent down, and is not outplaying either Campoli or Picard, Karlsson is up and Lee is down.
Somebodies getting traded, that's got to be the reason Lee was sent down.
Karlsson has grown quite a bit from his draft.
He's closer to 6'1 and I would say 190lbs.
If you don't believe me, try to see him in person. (He comes into my work, and I got his autograph at the B-Sens game.
$5 says 3 games from now, everyone is praising Karlsson, don't forget, you heard it here.
If there is going to be a trade, it won't involve Lee. It wouldn't make sense to send him to the minors, lowering his trade value prior to trading him.
Guys, come on. We're all hoping for a trade but I'll believe it when I see it. This is a simple move to understand...at least to me.
Lee is going down because he's an average defenceman with a low ceiling. Karlsson is an unreal talent that has been killing it in the AHL since he went down. Yeah he hasn't been down long, but he's obviously capable of putting up numbers down there...might as well let him grow up here on a 2nd or 3rd pairing and some time on the powerplay. It's simple...Murray thinks he will benefit more from being up with the big club, and Lee hasn't shown that he's going to ever be more than a 5 or 6 dman.
If Murray is smart, he can parlay some combination of Lee+Campoli+Picard into a player that can actually help us in the future. These three don't fit into our future plans, but Karlsson is going to be a big part of them.
Trading Volchenkov would be stupid. He is a second goalie out there.
I firmly believe that he saves us goals in the big games. He gets in front of anything at key times.
His bodychecks are extremely valuable because they are always clean. It seems that the way he hits is a lost art. He changes momentum. He hits hard, but avoids the head, and still pulverizes the opponent.
Trading Lee is also stupid. He's a young cheap player with upside. If we send him to Chicago, they will send us a thank you note.
Lee played with Toews in college. I'm sure he's telling Chicago management what Brian can do in the right situation.
If we get Barker, it's just another d-man that slots into the #3, #4 or #5 role. We don't need these. We need a #1. Barker is not a #1.
Rizzo and I have the same reasoning for this move !!
Steve Stamkos struggled in his first season with Tampa Bay !!
Look at him this year, his second year, and I think he is just as good as Vincent Lecavalier !!
He is tied for 12th in scoring with Ovechkin, 17 goals + 12assists for 29 points, 1 behind guess who, Heatley, who has 18 goals +12 assits !!
Some guys learn real fast, and Karlsson is in that group !!
Robert Cyr
I think it was Alafredson who went to managment and demaned Karlson's return, "he is great with the kids". did you notied the way Alaf played in bean town, ? makes u think.
Anon at 2:53
Barker is 6'3", 222lbs, and 23 years old. He's on pace for almost 40 pts while playing just over 13mins a game.
Imagine what he could do at 25 getting 20-25mins a game. Actually, imagine what he could do RIGHT NOW with 20mins a game. 50pts at 23? Sign me up. Lee will never even sniff 25-30 pts ever in a season at the NHL level. In fact, he has 42pts in 92 career ahl games. Mattias Karlsson had 51 pts in one season for Bingo.
Gimme a break. If you think Chicago would want to send us a thank you note in a Lee-Barker deal, you're mental.
Chirp I couldn't have said it better myself. I 100% agree with you, it makes little to no sense whatsoever.
I miss Neil. Where's Bass? What do are rosters look like healthy? Leave Picard out of trade rumours. He has the same or better numbers than Spezza. Will Murray give up on Campoli or is he one of his players, Muckler style? Thoughts?
J-Rock
This is just a move so the Murrays can pat themselves on the back and say how smart they are before Bryan reminesces on how he won a championship in Rockland about 35 years ago.
Neither Lee nor Karlsson are great shakes but Lee at least does not look as if a semi were coming a highway at him in his end of the ice. He's puny, makes poor decisions with the puck and really needs more time in the "A". Now, if Murray wants to trade Lee, that's fair enough.
I won't hear about Volchenkov being traded. This Defense is like a turnstile without him there, forwards just come through unimpeded and just crush us and our "D".
Man, I hope Heatley doesn't light up Elliott tomorrow...though if it means Karlsson gets sent back down, it might be one of those good out of bad situations :p
Rizzo there is a reason why he only gets 13 mins of ice time and why he is on the bottom pairing!
Yes he can shoot the puck, but you have to remember who he has on his team and on his PP unit and playing defense isnt only about offense.
If you play Barker 20 mins a game there will be more ppl here talking about all the "brain cramps" he is having.... Ya he might be good in the future but you are expecting too much of him right now
-HSF
"Anon at 2:53
Barker is 6'3", 222lbs, and 23 years old. He's on pace for almost 40 pts while playing just over 13mins a game.
Imagine what he could do at 25 getting 20-25mins a game. Actually, imagine what he could do RIGHT NOW with 20mins a game. 50pts at 23"
We don't have Toews, Kane et al to move the puck quickly and score. Put Barker passing the puck to Fisher and the unproductive Spezza, he becomes a 15-20 point defenseman. Just something to consider.
haha
k this is not intended as a pun to alfie
but i have to just get it out of my mouth:
they called up karlsson so he could spend christmas with his mommy alfredsson
Rizzo,
Barker gets a lot of points, but he plays for a dynamic team like Chicago.
I don't think that point production would be repeated with Ottawa. If you watch a Blackhawks game, they play a puck possession game. The style suits skilled players.
Ottawa plays a tight checking system. The defensemen keep it simple. In fact, when any player gets fancy, the coaches and the fans get upset and tell them to keep it simple.
That attitude neutralizes the competitive advantage of the skilled guys. That's why we have guys like Fisher, Carkner, and Winchester excelling. They're great in a simple system. Meanwhile Spezz and Kovy cannot find their games.
I 100% agree Chirp. Karlsson is clearly not ready. If he's going to be here he has to play with Kuba not Campolli. I think Lee should be with the big club unless he's being traded. His foot speed and puck moving was already missed against the Bruins. He has definetely taken big strides and he should be playing as a regular in the NHL at this point. He's done enough. He will keep getting better. Absolutely stupid to send him down now.
The guys on team 1200 after the Bruins game were talking about how Karlsson was perhaps "promised" a spot on the big club this year with the way things were going. Clearly he has shown he isn't quite ready for that yet. I think there shouldn't be any promises here and that after 4-5 games Lee will come back up unless Murray is nuts. We should be icing the best team and right now that means Lee up and when A-Train is back Lee up and Campolli sitting out.
Sending Lee down to trade him later makes absolutely no sense.
However, calling Karlsson up to showcase him and trade him makes a hell of a lot more sense.
There is no reason to bring him up and activate his contract. He's obviously not ready, and Lee was playing well.
If one of those guys is on his way out of town, my money is on Karlsson, because as stated...the move makes no sense at all from a hockey standpoint.
Maybe it is Karlsson who is on the block and the interested team (Chicago, for example) wants him showcased at the NHL level. Think about it...if you are Chicago, cap issues are the only reason why you would ever part with a young top 4 D such as Barker or Seabrook. You are going to want something back that will come close to guaranteeing you a player of equal value in 2-3 years, while costing you far less moneey in the interim. So with that in mind, why in God's green earth would you part with an asset like Barker or Seabrook for an underachiever like Brian Lee (even if he is packaged with a high draft pick or two). Bottom line folks is this: you want Barker or Seabrook from Chicago, you better be willing to give up a BLUE CHIP prospect in return. Hello Erik Karlsson.
calling karlsson up to showcase him so that they can trade him is even more bonehead because his trade value is already hampered because the amazing senators organization triggered the one year on his entry contract. if he isnt NHL ready on our team, that means he is not NHL ready on any other team in the NHL. ok maybe the Leafs haha. but he sure isnt getting traded there lol.
someone above said that the year is not lost if he doesnt play 40 games. dont know how true is that. SC you should look into it.
I liked the idea of bringing Karlsson up, but playing him with Campoli?!? That's a no-no! I was expecting Kuba/Karlsson. It's absolutely useless having Karlsson/Campoli as a pair. San Jose will destroy us if we use them!
--
Another possibility is Lee is hurt and the media hasn't been all over it. The Senators organization may be hiding it, and while still letting him play in Bingo, he'll be resting up at the same time.
--
I have heard of a Sharp/Barker package to Ottawa, but we'll have to give up more than Lee/Karlsson to fit them under our cap.
-SX
I would be shocked Hanrahan, if Karlsson moved. He and Cowen are Murray's guys for the future.
Karlsson is ALfredsson's protege...it's likely Alfie would have a fit if the young Swede of the future got traded.
Lee makes more sense as he's from the previous regime, he's yo-yoed to the minors and back as well.
Look. The Senators are a lock for the playoffs at this point. They just need to win 25-28 more games of their remaning 60 or so...so the question is, which D can they trade that they move farther than the first round?
GUYS!! leave seabrook out of this , i garantee you chicagos keeping him , look at how much of a force hes been , trading him away for an erik karlsson right now , while they have a chance to win the cup this year??? thats 5 steps back for them
Sorry guys, I don't buy it. Barker is already better defensively than a guy like Picard, and much better offensively. It'd be a great deal and a great addition.
There must be a deal involving a Dman for a forward. I'm thinking Lee and Campoli(+?) for a top 6er.
matt.
hanrahan,
the reason chicago is swarmed by trade talks right now is because they wont be able to sign everyone next year. that puts any trade partners at a huge advantage because they dont want to lose them for nothing. i'm sure lee with a small contract and a 2 way contract at that to look pretty damn good to chicago.
murray will not more karlsson, thats just stupid. he does need to clear out campoli/lee/picard. picard has been playing well of late but that just boosts his value. he's still a large liability out there defensively.
hanrahan,
the reason chicago is swarmed by trade talks right now is because they wont be able to sign everyone next year. that puts any trade partners at a huge advantage because they dont want to lose them for nothing. i'm sure lee with a small contract and a 2 way contract at that to look pretty damn good to chicago.
murray will not more karlsson, thats just stupid. he does need to clear out campoli/lee/picard. picard has been playing well of late but that just boosts his value. he's still a large liability out there defensively.
I dont see a move happening with chicago at all this year. The chemistry is just too good with the Blackhawks. Heres just a little possible trade I was thinking of today when I seen on TSN edmonton is wanting to make some moves and change up the team.
to edmonton
either Kelly or Cheechoo + sj 2nd round pick and Picard or Campoli
to Ottawa
Souray and a 5th or 6th round pick
atleast none of our d-men are like keith ballard ......what a bonehead thing to do, give up a breakaway and then try to chop your own goaltender's head off.
btw...ovechkin might finally have gotten his lesson. left the game today with a knee on knee injury after he initiated a knee on knee with tim gleason. not to mention the ref handed him a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. he had to be helped off ice. some stubborn jerks never learn.
Tyler, with all respect I still don't see Chicago moving Barker for Lee and his 2 way contract. Barker is still young and full of upside in his own right. Yes, Chicago is up against it salary cap wise but there are 28 other teams aside from Ottawa who will have assets far better than one of Ottawa's fringe D-men (Lee, Picard, Campoli) and a pick to offer up. Mark my words, Chicago will get something strong back for Barker regardless of their salary cap issues. If Ottawa wants to play, they'll have to offer something substantial in my opinion.
Anyone ever think that there's nothing more to this than what Clouston said? That he wanted Lee to "dominate?"
Lee has been neither amazing nor terrible. With Volchenkov returning, Lee has no place in the roster. We don't have a spot for him right now and he is therefore returned to Bingo to play a more "dominating" game.
On the other hand, Campoli has been playing rather poorly of late so I could easily see Karlsson sliding into his place and Campoli being a healthy scratch.
Time to stop reading too much into things that may not even exist.
You sound like a bunch of Leafs fans, offering junk and seriously believing it is enough to get you a star in return.
We are not getting Cam Barker for Brian Lee and an assortment of crap players and picks.
Not even Milbury is that stupid.
I would trade Karlsson for Barker strait up.
Chicago does it for cap relief and a legitimate blue chip prospect, Ottawa does it because our D sucks and Barker could be a building block that we needed yesterday. And, that is ahead of Karlsson in development by 3 - 5 years.
Just an idea
Filatov and Pahlsson and Tyutin for Kelly Picard and Obrien 2nd sj ..
Completely not senators related -
How stupid does Keith Ballard look after his idiotic attempt at breaking a stick on post? Oops! you missed buddy and hit your goaltender in the face, MORON! Man I would be so angry at my teammate if he did that!
Unreal.
JAGR JAGR JAGR
I just wanna stir the pot here
Altho I don't see this being in any trade this year for Ottawa.
What happens with Kuba at the end of this season? I understand he is still under contract.
But. Volch should be extended soon. Cowen tearing up the WHL and he'll be here next year. Phillips will retire a sen. Karlsson is given a shot now, so why not next year. Carkner on an amazing contract for his steady play.
Thats 5, and either Lee, Campoli, Picard AND Wiercioch, as he is playing amazing in his first dozen games.
I understand thats a lot of potential rookies, but those are some big body D on low contracts which would enable Ottawa to resign Foligno Volch Regin and still sign a good free agent if they decide to waive Cheechoo.
Just wanted to change the subject on the current trade talk.
People are reading to much into this. Why do you think Kuba was signed to a 3 year deal other then his good year. Do you not think it went through Murray's mind that I sign him to a 3 year deal. He mentors Karlsson and eventually Cowan. And when his contract is up Karlsson will be reaching his potential and be much better then him. And won't be get a much bigger salary then Kuba is right now.
Lee is just getting shafted because. They can't send Campoli down. Campoli has been horrible this year. Both Lee and Karlsson have been better. Once Volchenkov is back he will be paired with Phillips. Carkner will be with Picard to keep his mistakes less damaging. And Kuba will get put with Karlsson so he can be more offensive. Right now he and Campoli are the same type of player. Only difference is Campoli is not going to get better but Karlsson is.
IMO I think there is no trade. Why have a decent player that needs to learn the ropes and may not have a future here, then to have a decent player in Karlsson that needs to learn the ropes and has a future here.
Karlsson brings more to the table then Lee does. Invest in Karlsson is the msg here.
johnnyholmes, you are a muppet to suggest that trade (Karlsson for Barker). That only helps Chicago.
The truth is Chicago needs cap relief , so that limits their options because other teams may have better players to offer, but how many of those players offer no cap hit next season (expiring contract)with an option to sign a player? Not many, I would think. so an example of Picard or Lee and a 2nd round draft pick should do the trick for Barker, or you know what? They could risk not being able to sign Kane and Toewes.
This trade gives them options...which is why it makes sense.
Anon @ 10:39pm
I like it. Except I would change Tyutin for Stralman. In order to do that though, we would probably have to offer up more than O'Brien.
JohnnyHomes,
I disagree. Milbury IS that stupid.
:)
Karlsson for Barker strait up is a fair deal for both sides.
A Barker/Cowen defense would be hardcode.
The only way bringing up Karlsson makes ense to me is if they want to trade him. I know this is not the case, so everyone plese remain seated. But if they were to consider trading him, why would they care if he'd lost a year??
Like I said, it's not going to happen, but I just don't get the move otherwise.
pg
Savard has signed for 7 years at 4.2 mil per
Both Lee and Karlsson have bonuses in their rookie deals.
Possibly BM will let each one play 3-4 weeks in the NHL, then swap them.
They both get experience at the NHL & get to dominate at the AHL level (hopefully).
I just hope Campoli starts to sit out. What a waste of a 1st round pick!
You think you can get Barker for Picard / Lee and a 2nd rounder...and I'm the muppet?
Whatever. Dumb ass.
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