Bruce Garrioch is reporting that Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has filed a grievance with the league over this summer's debacle involving Dany Heatley.
Melnyk insists that the Heatley camp had given the Senators permission to speak with the Edmonton Oilers and that the deal should have been approved. Melnyk is hoping to get back the $4 million dollar bonus he was forced to pay Heatley this summer.
Garrioch indicates that the process could take awhile to sort out (as long as 2 years) but that Melnyk is willing to go to battle over the issue.
This news shouldn't come as a surprise as there were rumblings during the summer that the Senators organization could potentially have grounds for a grievance.
The rest of the article can be found at the link below...
58 comments:
The sens should file a grievance against Kovalev - there's $10 million that Eugene will never see again.
its been 11 fucking games...
pardon my french.
thank god Eugene is just the man to do it, this team could use some good news....go get him Eugene
Your french is excellent Carmelo.
go eugenator!!
get that 4 mil back!!!
paste some interest on that sucker too
i noticed a lot less negative posts on sens chrip in the last cpl of days, I hope they have not giving up on the sens, ?
this team needs some good news and fast,
GO EUGENE GO!!!!!
Nailerize 'em!!!!
Oh lay off Kovalev. Over priced yes but he is one of a kind and when he chooses he is better than any player in the league. He will give 10 million back in the playoffs alone.
hi.. just dropping by here... have a nice day! http://kantahanan.blogspot.com/
This is gonna be "a can of worms" lasting a long,long time !!
We all know the $4million "Bonus"
paid on July 1st, was part of money paid during the 2009-2010 season,with another $4million as salary for balance of season !
This caused Murray multiple problems in getting Heatley traded before July 1st !!
Heatley had a "no trade clause" and vetoed it by refusing Edmonton offer , so he and his agents , even though they agreed to discuss a deal with Edmonton, they had a right to refuse if not satisfied with Edmonton's offer !!
NHLPA has no choice but to stand behind Dany Heatley and defend his actions in this grievance !!
I do not believe that Mr.Melnyk will get his money back whatsoever !
Robert Cyr
The Sens have set precedents with selfish players before (ie Yashin.) I hope this goes Melnyk's way and changes the way things are done. Heatley should have to deliver the refund in person.
I'm not sure that filing a grievance that they are going to lose will bring good news. When this is done, Heatley will have received his desired trade to the Sharks, $4M bucks from the Sens for nothing, and an arbitrator's ruling that he was allowed to do it. Go Sens Go.
I can't see how Eugene can lose.
And, Cloudton called out Kovie -- how can one guy (clearly with puck talent) can't skate, and can't score? I understand now why MTL didn't re-sign him - not only is he nowhere on the ice, but he's nowhere near his 5M/10M value.
You have noticed less negative comments due to the fact that the Sens haven't played in a few days, wait until they lose another game and they will all be back.....and if I am wrong and they have lost interest in the Sens good riddance.
As for the grievance, hopefully Melnyk can get something back....although I have my doubts as Heatley was given the no movement clause, and had the rites to refuse trades, I bet we won't be offering too many of those deals anymore.
Go Gene Go!!! Get that money back from Dany the Douchebag Heatley.
Ok I know some of the negative comments on here were a bit ridiculas and some completely off the wall (probably Leaf Fans), but, are fans not allowed to express negative thoughts or comments regarding the Sens at all without being accused of not being "a real Sens fan" etc?
It can't be all flowers and rainbow's in here all the time people, and just cause some people aren't happy with a certain aspect or player of the game they saw and want to vent that shouldn't mean there any less of a fan in my books.
So yeah, some glass half full fans need to get off there high horse, and some glass half empty fans need to relax alittle, its called a happy medium.
end rant...
He should have demanded the $4million from the Sharks as part of the trade. Especially after taking that horrible Cheechoo contract.
If getting the $4M back is a two year process, Melnyk should just drop it. It'll keep this story alive for two years, when we should just move on. It'll be like a cloud that hangs over the organization. It's done already.
Legally, I don't see how he can win. Although, Heatley may have been selfish, he exercised his contractual rights. SJ will obviously argue that they would not have done the deal if they were on the hook for the $4M. In fact, the SJ offer only came after the Sens paid Heatley.
If we were 9-2, would Melnyk be filing a grievance. I don't think so. I think that he's frustrated that his team is not as good as it use to be.
It's good that he's frustrated. Now, he should do something productive about it. Chasing $4M isn't going to help the team. It just shows players across the league that he does not understand contract law.
I was sitting at a bar with pierre mcguire and he told us, to get kovalev going you gotta play him with spezza. Thats what he wants, and he wont go all out until he gets what he wants...so my question is why doesnt clouston just put him with spezza when spezz comes back from injury?
I assume that Melnyk was told by labor lawyers that he has at least a chance at getting the money back. it might not be a bad deal if he does as he may be willing to use that money on the sens (maybe sending a contact in the minors for example)
Who is the grievance targeting? Heatley? his agents? all of them?
PL
Anon 11:19, the grievance was filed in the summer. They are just reporting about it now.
Personally, I do not think a line of Kovalev-Spezza-Michalek, would help Kovalev, as previous writer who spoke with Pierre Maguire, said while at a bar !
Kovalev plays when he wants to, and dogs it when he wants to !!
He will never change, and I find he is overpaid for what he puts in!
Guys like him should be paid 50% less, and have a clause for production output to augment their salary !!
Robert Cyr
its not hard... keep your players happy, you'll be fine... especially with the talent we have...
that is where Clouston hurts us... just like he did last year with Heatley... he doesn't let the players have their way, which can be very good, laying down the line and what not, but if your players don't comply, you're screwed... Clouston needs to listen to his top players and start doing good line combos and putting the right players on the PP...
let's go!
On its face, Melynk doesn't seem to have a winning position. Heater, as pointed out by several of you, simply exercised his NMC in refusing to go to the Oilers.
In practice though, there are almost certainly going to be additional details that Euge will argue. He'll probably try to show bad faith, if not worse, on the part of Heatley and his people. That might well be enough to get into the grayer areas of contract terms... which is usually when some sort of settlement is reached.
I spoke with Pierre Maguire at a bar and I told him he was a dipshit.
LOL @ Stacie!
Classic.
McGuire is a complete loser - he can't get a job in the NHL so he's clearly not that smart. Why do you think he sucks up to every team and city he's in? Have you ever heard this guy on Toronto radio, or Montreal radio? He wants an NHL job and doesn't care who he has to suck up to. But he doesn't get hired because he ain't that smart.
Spezza with Kovalev won't work unless the NHL adds a "two pucks" rule. Simple as that. Late in a game or on the power play - SURE, but on a regular basis it ain't happening.
And while you do need to keep players motivated (not necessarily happy) you can't just give in to them. Some players take more coddling than others but the coach has to keep it balanced.
Kovie will be fine kids, just let him do his thing.
As for the $4M. I doubt Melnyk thinks he'll get it back, but I'm sure he's hoping to make life difficult for Heatley in some form. I don't expect Heatley to give a crap, but maybe.
What?! Kovalev can't have success with Alfredsson?? What is Spezza going to provide that Alfie can't? That's horse poop. Kovalev is an NHL'er on the decline. Let's face it, two years from now he will be looking for a contract in the KHL because no one will want him here.
Secondly, I think Melnyk not only has a case for getting his money back, he needs to pursue this in the name of setting the precedent that if a player chooses to brake his contractual obligation towards a team, than all clauses that are above and beyond the salary owed (i.e. bonuses, no trade clause, free agent status) should be nullified or in some state of halt.
If Heatley had the right to decline the trade with Edmonton, which would have given Melnyk his money back, than that should have given Melnyk the right to retract the 4 million bonus. If Heatley had chosen to stay in Ottawa, only then should he have gotten it back.
I know what the contract says and why "technically" Heatley never violated his rights, but if this is voted in Heatley's favour, what's stopping players from asking trades in the future, in the middle of contracts, and after recieving lump sum bonuses?
Back to the Heatley thing:
If the Senators can prove that the Heatley camp allowed Murray to speak to Edmonton before the deal was made and declined, than this will favour Melnyk's case heavily.
SCSF,
The problem with going into the greyer area of contract terms is that it will get the NHLPA involved. The NHLPA will back Heatley 100%. They will not want to set a precedent.
When Yashin held out, he was breaking his contract and did not have support from the NHLPA. Heatley did not violate his contract. That is a very big difference, whether we like it or not.
Melnyk is essentially picking a fight with the NHLPA. I don't even think that he will have support from the rest of the owners. The owner in SJ saved $4M, due to the Sens misfortune or incompetence (depends on your view). Smart GM's will be thinking , "Why'd you give the guy $14M in the first 12 months?".
The result will be a black cloud hanging over the team when they want to attract desirable UFA's. Sure, players who have limited options, like Kovalev, will sign here. But the top guys will look for more attractive organizations that people see in a good light.
allowing the sens to talk to edmonton and allowing the sens to trade him to edmonton are not the same things
the only way Melnyk wins this is if he can prove that Heatley or his agents said if you work out an acceptable deal with Edmonton i will waive my NMC to go there and they signed it
regardless of the fact that most of us believe Heatley was a selfish shit in this deal and that he bent the sens over a barrell and told us to brace for impact he was only exercising his contractual options - unless it said in his contract I wont ever ask for a trade - which it obviously didn't
Just suck it up moneybags.
The team doesn't need a distraction right now when the ship is being righted.
1:21 pm has it right, this team has been a circus of late. Melnyk needs to take a loss and move on. 4 million to him is like 10 bucks to most of us...not a big deal.
Notice no one bothered to pay attention or respond to Gorley...
Everyone says "just wait, Kovalev will be great in the playoffs" if he doesn't start putting up points in the regular season, we not even see the playoffs!
no one ever does my friend... :(
Wrote this over at the 6th Sens, thought I'd repost it here.
I think this has very little to do with Melnyk getting his money back, and more to do with raising the issue in the eyes of the NHLPA and the owners. He might lose now, but next time they have a bargaining agreement, they can use this as leverage and put in a new clause. For example, if a player asks for a trade, they can't exercise their no trade clause. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Melnyk might lose in the short term, but the long term gains will be more than $4 million.
Guys, Melnyk filed a protest in the summer. It's not a new thing and it's not like it's top on his to do list or anything. He filed a protest to say "this kind of thing shouldn't happen".
Garrioch is just looking for stuff to write about during a break in the Sens schedule. Simple as that.
Until I see a quote from Melnyk saying "I'm going to get my money back no matter what" or similar I take this as a minor move on his part to show his feelings on the subject. If he doesn't win (which I don't think he can) at least he can say "As an owner, I think we need to make sure this doesn't happen again - whether that's by league rules or just by other teams learning from our mistake of front-loading a contract with no out clauses."
This was filed in the summer, before Whinypants was even traded to the Sharks. It's just coming out now.
Melnyk has some valid points. His argument is that the Sens allowed the agents to talk to teams, which is not normally allowed. The agents allowed the Sens to talk to Edmonton, which can only imply their client would accept a move there. (What can they claim...He didn't think the Sens got enough in return? As if that's his concern!)
What happened is that as soon as the agents found out from SJ that they made offers to Ottawa, all other deals were going to be blocked (using the "options" pretense) because that's where Whinypants wanted to go. In effect, a player forced a team that he had a valid contract with to trade him to one specific team, regardless of the value returned. By showing no desire to be a part of the Ottawa team (not returning calls, not speaking to anyone until forced to, not dealing with the coach), Whinypants forced the Sens into dealing with only one team, San Jose.
As for the $4 M, the Sens can prove that deals could have been done but every team wanted to wait until after July 1. The CBA does not allow for money to be exchanged in player trades and this is a large amount of "real money" that is for the 09-10 season. If it takes 2 years or 10, I can't see how $4 M can be considered pocket change, even for Melnyk. Whinypants took money for services he didn't provide.
Once the NHLPA is done self-destructing, they'll still have a challenge defending this one. The results are usually pro-player, but you never know.
For Kovalev...it comes down to whether the team (Clouston) wants to change everything around for a guy who is set in his ways. Kovie has NEVER liked the left side. Spezza and him aren't a good match, unless Jason changes his game. Spezza can change, but you know Kovalev never will. You'd also have to break up Spezza-Michalek, which has gone well. Clouston could always try Kovalev on the right side by moving Alfredsson to the top line, but you know that AK27 will also sulk at playing with guys like Fisher and Foligno, who aren't "puck artists" like him. It also puts all the eggs in one basket, which the team has seen too often in the past.
Let's give Clouston some time to work it out...he's a smart cookie. We shouldn't forget that Gainey offered Kovalev almost the same deal but wanted an answer in 15 minutes. Also, several other teams offered more than $5 M, but only one year.
I am still happy he is persuing Heatley, I know most likley Heatley will win again, but it will make the NHL have a look at these contracts after all they approve them, And with that said it will get more NHL star players hateing him like we do and that's not a bad thing (right) Joe Thourton Pat Marlue, this deal really hurt our team and for a long time to come,
You guys should probably read a little more the player associations' by laws and maybe a little reading on legal contracts wouldn't hurt.
First why would Eugene even bother with filling it if it's already lost in advance? He probably only has like a team of 5-10 lawyer that works for the Sens organization. This has nothing to do with the team performance, and he probably doesn't care about the 4 mil either. This is an issue that affects every team and needs to be changed. It has been a hot topic since he went public and everyone agreed that it needs to be changed. But you need a case to create a precedent prior amending the by law. If you read the agreement, one that asks for a trade is then lifting is no trade close. Once he gave the green light for his trading request, he technically doesn't have a veto clause anymore. He should have been forced to accept the deal. By the way most GM and organizations in the NHL are backing Melnyk on this as it would create a precedent and therefore the would need to amend this by-laws. The situation would not be the same if the team asked him to remove his clause. But when a player requests a trade and has a nmc, it is no longer valid. This will go on for over a year but rest assure that he has more than a favorable change to win. Why do you think he waited a few months before filing it ? Because there's a team studying the by-laws etc... They would not had filled it if they didn't had a realistic case.
It's almost not related to hockey, this is specifically a contracts, by-laws, legal, players' association agreement, etc..
It will come done to a court deciding if the Sens requesting, and Heatley giving, consent to the Sens trying to make a deal with the Oilers that he in fact had agreed to waive his NMC. There are strong arguments on both sides, and plenty of contract law precedents. Verbal contracts count as well. It appears that the Sens were more than careful to only talk and try to make a deal with teams Dany boy gave his ok to.
The Sens can also argue damages from Dany's flip-flop. The aftermath of the Oiler mess hurt his market value, and the limited time before the $4m was due was largely spend on working a deal with the Oilers - all based on Heatley's go ahead.
Allan and Robert Cyr:
What the hell do you guys mean by Heatley had to deem it "an acceptable deal"?!?!
No matter where Heatley was going to end up, the new team was going to assume the rest of the existing contract as laid out by Murray and the Sens. No new deal have been drafted in the trade so saying that Heatley had to "accept the terms" is the biggest bag of crap I have ever heard.
Heatley only had to accept or decline a destination. If he said Edmonton could be contacted, it means he deemed it an acceptable place and by refusing the June 30th deal, it could be argued that he shouldn't have recieved the bonus given there was a deal in place.
I wouldn't be too concerned about going against the NHLPA. In fact, this is the best time to go against them as they are in complete disaray. And why wouldn't the owners support this fight considering that this issue could potentially affect them in the future.
Sacul - where do you get that Kovie doesn't like Left Wing? I had heard from some Hab fans that he actually likes to play the off wing.
All your points are great - just curious if this left wing theory is true or not.
Wow - if I had a nickel for every time someone said "if he demands a trade it means his NMC is void".
Not too many law degrees out there I guess.
Dany did not breach his contract. He's a douchebag for sure and I hate him as much as anyone, but he did not breach his contract.
Now, an arguement can be made that he and his agents did not act in good faith - even to the point of colluding with SJ to decline any other trades. But there's no breach of contract.
Oh, and most should re-read the article - this was filed by Melnyk in the summer. Garrioch just brought it up because his fat ass can't think of anything else to write about.
Hax is hitting the nail on the head hear clearly, preach it my friend,
gene will probably lose this one but it may be worth a shot, as another poster stated its sad because a ruling will likely come that the player was fully within his right to do what he did....and that my friends is whats wrong with pro sports today, the politics.
as for gorley, alfie is consulted on most moves the team makes past that no advice is needed , the team has confidence in clouston!
unnngh!!!!! Dany this whiney that...who cares. NHL not NLL National Legal League.C-mon thursdays game so we can yak hockey everyone is starting to sound like the TSN morons.Hope he gets his 4 mil.Hey SC maybe you should make a Bitch-o-Dany page.
Good puck luck thursday SENS
GO SENS GO
i'm not sure if this has been brought up or not, so I apologize about repetition, but.... win or lose, good or bad, at the very very least, at least melnyk will be a tiny little thorn in the side of Meatley. I'm really hoping that Fany has to foot the legal bills here too, so even if he's entitled to that cool $4mil, at least part of it will be spent on legal fees...... again.... too soon? :P hah
anyways, I won't touch the Kovi debate just yet, but just bear in mind all, we all knew that he turns it on and turns it off at any point during the year, so there's not much point in flying off the handle as we all knew it was coming... Just give them all some time to work and gel. Not sure, but maybe someone can look into how productive Kovy was when he first went to the habs.... I've got nothin to draw this from, so I could be way off, never know!
Go sens :D..... and metallica!
I don't think the money, if the Sens receive it will come from Dany. It will come from San Jose. Heatley will still get his money.
He has 9 goals this season with 6 on power play.
Michalek has 6 goals -- 3 of which are shorthanded and a lot harder to score those.
I sooner have Michalek than Heatley now. Playoff time Michalek will be a more valuable player and he plays both ends of the ice. Heatley is one dimensional. San Jose thinks they will go far in the playoffs as they now have grit... Hopefully they don't expect Heatley to provide that.
Good on Eugene. Let's be honest here, I hope Chris Neil or Carkner pounds the livin piss out of Heatley when they meet in San Jose in Dec.
Hax said "Wow - if I had a nickel for every time someone said "if he demands a trade it means his NMC is void"."
I haven't read that from many people, at least not lately. If you are lumping by comment in with that, I don't think you are understanding point.
The legal question I see is it any reasonable to assume that Heatley waived his NMC by giving permission to the team to engage in trade negotiations with a specific team, the Oilers in this case. If effect, he entered in to an agreement, perhaps verbal, that the Sens acting reasonably proceeded to make arrangements under.
On balance, I don't think the Sens would win, but in court you never know and it isn't automatic that Eugene will lose.
There are often consequences when parties take action based on undertakings from another party. In this case though, we don't know the details and background about how specific the talks were between the Sens and Heatley's people, and how strong the case is.
IT JUST BURNS ME TO NO END THAT WE ALLOWED THIS BUM TO GET HIS WAY. I STILL THINK THAT EUGENE HAD THE HAMMER AND COULD HAVE MADE HEATLY`S LIFE MISERABLE IN OTTAWA INSTEAD OF SJ. BOTTOM LINE, WE DIDN`T HAVE TO GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTED.IT COULD HAVE BEEN EDMONTON OR SPEND THE NEXT 6 YEARS STEWING IN OTTAWA.
Biggest problems I see when a player demands a trade and has a nmc?... #1 the home team loses leverage, as the list of teams that the player wants to be traded to are limited and #2 the teams cherry picked by the player are likely contenders and, again likely, spending close to the cap.... this really limits the cap clearing trading options for the home team.... so, when a player who has a nmc demands a trade, they should be able provide any short list they want, but to protect the home team, there should be clauses in players contracts or the CBA that stipulates that the home team can deal with the players short list plus the bottom 5 teams in the league at the time the player demands a trade... that way the trading team can deal with teams that have plenty of cap space/trading options and not have to worry about asshole player refusing to waive his nmc... this clause also acts as a disuader for the player asking for a trade in the first place if they are worried about being traded to a bottom 5 team... might bring a little more balance to the whole nmc deal-io... although I realize that GM's are really the ones to blame for nmc's in the first place, this idea might protect them a little bit from the asshole players of the league.... also, I've seen in a couple of posts that people are suggesting that if the Heatley camp saw an 'acceptable trade' with Edmonton, Heatley would have waived his no movement clause... what the heck does that mean?... why would Heatley care about what players were coming to Ottawa and/or which players were going to be included in the deal to Edmonton... what does Heatley care beyond what team/city he was going to?... I just don't get these comments...
Hax - On the Kovalev thing:
He shoots Left. The right wing is the off wing, and that's where he likes to play. That would mean playing with Spezza (major compatibility issues) or moving the franchise right-winger, Alfie.
I probably confused the issue when I said he'd have to break up Spezza-Michalek, which is wrong. Kovie the Floatie could play his favourite wing with those two. I just don't see him and Spezza meshing well.
A lot of Montreal fans have told me that when Kovalev was "ON", it was amazing what he'd do from the half wall on the right side. Apparently, as a left-shooter, this gave him a great shooting angle and drove defenders nuts because he'd twirl and twirl, then always do the opposite of what everyone thought he would. They say if he shot he could pick a corner of the net while he was looking at the slot as if he was passing.
Spensar - not directed at you and you didn't really say that. I've seen it all over the tsn boards and ottawa sun boards lately, not so much here (this time around).
I think the specific example you give (permission to speak to the Oilers should imply intent to waive his NMC) is solid.
But even that, I don't think is legally binding or else Dany would be in Edmonton now. I do think they can point to that as "poor faith" etc since if they had no plan to waive the clause they shouldn't have said "go talk to Edmonton". We don't know (or I don't anyway) the context though. Maybe Murray called McAlpine and said "Can I just see what Edmonton might offer?" and McAlpine may have said "sure man, go for it". If that's the basics, it's not something Melnyk can complain about since McA can claim he figured Murray just wanted to see what Dany might fetch to know what to expect from teams on the list.
As you pointed out, we'll probably never know all the details and frankly at this point I don't care. I'm happy enough with Michalek on his own (for the money) that I consider the trade a win for us already. If Cheechoo ever gets off the schnide then all the better. Not to mention who we get with that pick.
I will say this in closing: I thought all along that SJ had told Dany "don't worry, we'll get you - just say no to every other offer". If that's the case, I sure hope that SJ, Dany and his agents all get caught somehow and pay dearly for it.
Anybody who thinks that what Melnyk is doing is going to put another black cloud on the Senators is an idiot. If anything you should thank Dany Heatley for putting that black cloud on the team with his antics this past summer. Also Dany Heatley destroyed the Senators reputation and will make even harder for Ottawa to attract Prime or Grade A UFA's for many years to come.
Sacul - that explains it. Thanks.
The Real T-Bone - I think that kind of language will exist in every contract drafted from this time forward. GMs will likely call it "a heatley clause" in fact.
I don't think it will end up in the CBA or anything though. And I'm not sure about "the bottom 5 teams" but perhaps some sort of agreement where the team provides a list of 20 teams and the player gets to veto 10 (or something).
But clearly if you go with a standard NMC and the player decides he wants out, as a team you're pretty much screwed.
Sacul - having thought about it for a second ... Didn't Alfie play LW last year on the Pizza line? Or did Heatley? Either way, seems that Alfie would likely be happy to play LW if it meant Kovy would be more productive.
In fact, I'd been saying for a while that Alfie and Kovie should be on the same line and simply play whichever wing made sense on the given rush/shift. If they turn the puck over and happen to be L/R or R/L just go with it. Or cross over in the neutral zone or after entering the offensive zone.
Anyway, just seems like a couple of veteran guys like them could control the game. I think they have actually - I'm not down on Kovie as much as most people.
I seriously hope that Melnyk and Murray avoid dealing with any of JP Barry and McAlpine's clients in the future. I know it would be difficult, but I'd like to see these guys suffer a great deal.
i heard that the reason he asked to be traded was because his drug dealer was going to break his kneecaps
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